Oh ......... The Ducati was already on the way down every year that Casey rode it after the first. Casey's style suited that bike, VR's didn't. How many times does this needs to be discussed already? Judging a near 20 year career of multiple wins, championships, across different classes and only pointing to the 2 worst years while ignoring the other 15 successful ones makes you an ignorant tool.
VR Effect: Negative Repercussion for GP
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Oh ......... The Ducati was already on the way down every year that Casey rode it after the first. Casey's style suited that bike, VR's didn't. How many times does this needs to be discussed already? Judging a near 20 year career of multiple wins, championships, across different classes and only pointing to the 2 worst years while ignoring the other 15 successful ones makes you an ignorant tool.
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
Fair point.
Let me ask you: Did Rossi's results on the Ducati impress you? Did you think he was going to improve on Casey's efforts? Did his first session on the thing come as a surprise?
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Did suit Rossi’s "style"? As in Rossi can win .... unless he's on the best everything? I only talk about the premiere class, plenty of great lower category riders that never got the special treatment in GP. Makes a big difference, not that you'd notice. Casey was Ducati's fourth choice. Did u know Rossi had a clause in his contract that he could veto who his teammate would be? Why would a competitor want that? Perhaps to guarantee he'd never be challenged? Imagine that, not only did the guy demand the best everything, exclusively, but also who he lined up against on the same bike. No wonder he left Yamaha in a fit when Lorenzo beat him. Rossi is a farce dude, just like you. Thank God for Carmelo clause. Easily bamboozling the weak minded masses.
Hey look, I can go from last to 4th, wow. You wanna talk EQUAL machinery? Well process this genius, tof the four best bikes your boy came LAST!
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No of course it didn't impress me. He struggled for sure. As a VR fan, obviously I thought he would improve or at least equal it. I can't remember his first session. I'm not that fanatical to remember what I thought of his first session. Is the point of your post to imply that Casey was a superior rider because he won on that bike and VR didn't? Maybe he was maybe he wasn't buy I'm not going to be totally ignorant and ignore 19 years of almost nothing but winning because of a couple of bad seasons on questionable machinery.
Joined Aug 2009
1K Posts | 328+
Vancouver
Rossi won most of his titles when there were no real competition.
If Crutchlow was riding in that era, he'd probably won 2 titles.
On the other hand, Lorenzo beat the best to win his 3 motogp titles,
Against Stoner,Rossi and Marquez
I've said it before I'll say it again, there is no having a discussion with you, your blinding hate for VR has consumed you well beyond the point of being objective or impartial. Who else can take anything positive and spin it into something negative. Hear this, when he retires it's the results that will count, not your paranoia and conspiracy theories of special tires and rocket fuel. This may come as a nasty shock to you but results count hearsay doesn't. He is going down as the GOAT for now like it or not. JL already said so on the record. Try and not let this affect your brain cells too much.
So this is somehow his fault? Critchlow wasn't, whether he wins or not is total speculation because he's a crasher. I happen to think the competition wasn't totally zero. Although I agree it's been cut throat the past 6-7 years I'm not going to say the others were a complete cake walk either.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I enjoy how you get so flustered with the truth. Must hurt so much that your defense mechanism kicks in. No no, you just hate my leader, I can't listen to you, Rossi good, you bad man, bad man. Hahaha classic cult follower. Hey, maybe SNS didn't exist eh? Maybe it was just Ducati not "suiting his style". Oh dear, Marquez stole my title, it was mine.
I love how every single thing that boppers like you were bamboozled to admire about Rossi has been utterly debunked:
He's a hard racer, oops not really, bitched of race.
He is a safe rider, oops he just deliberately crashed a rider out.
He's the best when on equal machinery, oops not really he's the last of the best bikes.
He's the best development rider ever, oops suck ... at Duc.
He never whines, oops epic meltdown.
He never cracks under pressure, except when he cracks under pressure.
He can mind .... everyone, oops backfire mind .....
He is graceful in defeat, oops thee GOAT of SORE LOSERS!
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Joined Apr 2011
477 Posts | 195+
Romania
well, when it wasn't, rossi did everything he could to bring it there, you know, mind games, off track excursions, "jokes", post race celebrations, etc.
Actually, it makes one wonder why somebody would throw away a reputation built on a 20 year career of multiples wins, etc. , just to maybe win one last one that he would maybe get just by not crashing. Were all the vr fans saying that Nick deserved his title in 2006?
Joined Jun 2008
1K Posts | 365+
USA
So you just started to watch motogp over the last 7 years & red rossi book to figure out the 19 years. Ask Tony Elías about those great SNS tires rossi used to rack up his first set of titles in the premier class. Talk about tainted & hollow success!!!
YES, Casey is by far a better rider than rossi will ever be. Marc & Jorge is also better rider than rossi.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
During the period that I have been following this sport, I have seen some great talents come and go, wasted, primarily because - (forget a couple of bad seasons) - they spent an entire career on 'questionable machinery'.
The move to Ducati was a huge miscalculation based largely upon conceit and arrogance. It is the first and only time that we have seen Valentino Rossi on truly uncompetitive machinery although the M1 in 2004 was certainly inferior to the factory RCVs. You make the point that the bike had been deteriorating for years, but even given this decline Casey Stoner was still capable of winning races on it and although the consistency needed for a title was out of the question, I'm fairly confident in saying he would have continued to do so. Rossi could not, even in spite of the appreciable concessions conferred upon him throughout his two years as a Ducati rider which other riders had not benefited from.
I have huge respect for Rossi's has achievements this season, to maintain such focus and passion for racing the age of 36 is indeed admirable. However, even the most fervent aficionado must question where he would be on a package lacking such bespoke attention and preferential treatment - and if you are blind to that then I urge you just once to remove the yellow tinted spectacles. I would also question where he would have found himself given the 2015 RCV.
We have had this discussion innumerable times. The best riders justifiably inherit the best bikes - and although they would not fare so well on customer or satellite packages, I am confident that overall and given time their 'non-alien' counterparts would not be able to exploit the factory machinery to the same extent. Of course, a nine year tenure on a Factory Honda without delivering a title is unprecedented, but in terms of Vale's career, the fact that he became the prodigal son of Yamaha, says as much about his marketing potential as it does his talent.
Contrary to your contention, his years at Ducati are in fact the most significant and telling...which is why he 'sorry Mike t.shirt' aside, he will never come close to the true 'greatest of all time'. In fact this entire GOAT nonsense is yet another false canard foisted by the yellow faithful. 2011 - 2012 confirmed the suspicions of the few truly objective pundits, peers, plaudits and paddock personnel immune to yellow fever.
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All true, and the championship would have been well deserved if he had won, the wet races were wet for all riders, and if Valentino was better in those races then that was the way it was.
However the conditions were the same for all riders in the last 3 races as well, and if Jorge was faster than Valentino in those races (along with MM in 2 and possibly 3 if his race had continued, and Dani in 2 of them as well as Iannone in 1) then that is the way it was as well. The suggestion that riders other than Jorge should not be allowed to race Valentino when he had achieved his lead with all those riders racing Jorge as hard as they could is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have heard in my several decades of following the sport.
This remarkable season at age 36 was all to VR's credit, whether he won the championship or finished a close second, until the Sepang pre-race press conference. I totally agree he was in no need of any extra credit anyway, btw, which is why it was all so crazy.
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Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
My money would be on Marc...
Can't be called the GOAT if he couldn't at least do as well on the 2011 Ducati as Stoner did on the 2010 bike imo. The 1994 Williams didn't suit Senna's style..but he put it on pole in every race he drove it in, and lapped his team mate in Brazil in a car that gave him arm cramp...
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Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 34+
Tar Heel State
I enjoy racing, thoroughly enjoyed this season as it was very exciting. I can't think of anything missing from the 2015 season. I'm sure there will be good racing without Rossi after he's gone. In fact it could be said that Rossi is riding for the paycheck and .... blocking more deserving riders at the chance of a competitive ride. Once Retired, the yellow hoarde will die out and the racers that remain can race on without walking on yellow egg shells.
Greatest Of All Time, I'm not convinced, in fact I think GOAT is used too often now. The greatest rider is the one you root for, the one you would get up at 05:00 to watch even if just for a glimpse at the back of the pack.
MotoGP will go on without Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, and we will still be here to talk, fight, ....., and moan about it.
Greatest Of All Time, I'm not convinced, in fact I think GOAT is used too often now. The greatest rider is the one you root for, the one you would get up at 05:00 to watch even if just for a glimpse at the back of the pack.
MotoGP will go on without Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, and we will still be here to talk, fight, ....., and moan about it.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
"Walking on yellow egg shells". Haha. Though I'd say, he did get a bit of egg on his face. Hysterical stuff bro.
I'm afraid next year will be remembered for the Booing GP Tour of 2016. I dont see Marc & Jlo getting much love. As much as Pedro hurt my feelings for tag teaming with Al Puig against Nicky, I never booed the man. And Pedro has been on every step of the podium at all the US rounds I've ever attended, errrr. You get on the podium, you don't get booed, it's the decent thing to do.
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Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Speaking of repercussions:
El gran sueño de Ducati: Jorge Lorenzo y Casey Stoner, en pista con las dos oficiales
El gran sueño de Ducati: Jorge Lorenzo y Casey Stoner, en pista con las dos oficiales
