USA Today Nicky Hayden Article

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Mar 8 2007, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>#69 is a MIDPACK MotoGP racer bottom line.

Thats bolloks and you know it. You don't win championships from the midpack, ask colin edwards. Hayden took 10 podiums last year, thats front running stuff. I know Hayden has not won enough races, we all know it, but he is obviously no mid pack rider. If you insist on convincing yourself that rossi was not responsible for losing his title, you cannot be so unrealistic as to believe that every other rider also had a year from hell and that Hayden was champ just from being the onlt man left. Also worth remembering that he also finished third in the title in 2005, thats not a mid pack performance either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Mar 8 2007, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pete, I said it last year (wasn't here though) and I'll say it again.

Hayden is NOT a winner. He was awarded a title, YES, and has the #1 plate no doubt. It's the 1st (and I'll bet ONLY time it'll ever happen) time that the series champion did not win more races than the 2nd place finisher. Winners WIN, bottom line. When a series ROOKIE wins as many races as a rider in his 4th season (who only has a total of 3 wins) it gives you a idea of how much "work" (compared to the winners) was really put into the effort.

NO, I've never raced a MotoGP and NO, I could NEVER go that fast but as the title holders leathers say, Numbers don't lie. Numbers can however tell a story in a story.

#69 is a MIDPACK MotoGP racer bottom line.

Now where's that flame proof suit at?

SS


who cares, he is #1 for whatever reason and even if he does fall mid pack this year where does that leave him??..... one of the top ten motorcycle riders in the world....still not anything to hang your head about...but no matter how he did it he is still world champion even if he loses it no one will ever be able to take that away from him. It's actully sad he doesnt get the coverage from his home media that and italian or spainard would with a motogp title win.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats bolloks and you know it. You don't win championships from the midpack, ask colin edwards. Hayden took 10 podiums last year, thats front running stuff. I know Hayden has not won enough races, we all know it, but he is obviously no mid pack rider. If you insist on convincing yourself that rossi was not responsible for losing his title, you cannot be so unrealistic as to believe that every other rider also had a year from hell and that Hayden was champ just from being the onlt man left. Also worth remembering that he also finished third in the title in 2005, thats not a mid pack performance either.
His career average finish is 6th place.

I should clarify. The top 10 is the pack in my book.

I insist that Rossi lost the title (and handed Hayden the #1 plate) after Dani helped him get the points lead.

Look at any year of MotoGP racing and you will see there's ALWAYS a couple guys (usually the same fastest guys year in year out) who win and the rest don't. Even when Schwantz didn't win the title he won races. So as far every other rider having a year from hell ...... nope, it's just the way it's always been.

2005 and 3rd place was WAAAAAAAAY back in points compared to the series winner and the reality of that season for Nicky is that he placed his average 6th when others could'nt and that was good enough to earn 3rd overall.

SS

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sheri @ Mar 8 2007, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's actully sad he doesnt get the coverage from his home media that and italian or spainard would with a motogp title win.He would if he actually WON races.

SS

Getting Off Topic......

Dammit!!!! Not another thread about if Nicky is deserving or not. This has been beat into the ground people. Get over it already. Nicky is the champion, and chapionship was not handed to him. I believe a lot of the prominent posters on here agree on that even if they are not Hayden fans.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 8 2007, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry Pete, just got confused.

No bother mate was on the red wine when I posted, so my mistake!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Mar 8 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Look at any year of MotoGP racing and you will see there's ALWAYS a couple guys (usually the same fastest guys year in year out) who win and the rest don't. Even when Schwantz didn't win the title he won races. So as far every other rider having a year from hell ...... nope, it's just the way it's always been.

Yes, there are always fast riders winning races who havn't got what it takes to string a season together, and as a result never achieve much. Rossi is of course a special case of a rider who usually has consistency with his blinding speed (2005 as you said) , but not many riders can do that. A rider who has really got what it takes will be fast every weekend even when things are holding them back, and that wins world titles. Watch your 2006 tapes and you'll find Nicky featuring near the top of almost every race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Mar 8 2007, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pete, I said it last year (wasn't here though) and I'll say it again.

Hayden is NOT a winner. He was awarded a title, YES, and has the #1 plate no doubt. It's the 1st (and I'll bet ONLY time it'll ever happen) time that the series champion did not win more races than the 2nd place finisher. Winners WIN, bottom line. When a series ROOKIE wins as many races as a rider in his 4th season (who only has a total of 3 wins) it gives you a idea of how much "work" (compared to the winners) was really put into the effort.

NO, I've never raced a MotoGP and NO, I could NEVER go that fast but as the title holders leathers say, Numbers don't lie. Numbers can however tell a story in a story.

#69 is a MIDPACK MotoGP racer bottom line.

Now where's that flame proof suit at?

SS
First of all you're selling Pedrosa short (no pun intended). He won more races his rookie year than anyone since Rossi. So don't make this out to be that Hayden's win tally was matched by just some rookie. No rookie has won a race in their debut season since Rossi if I'm not mistaken. So to use that stat is rather misleading.

Secondly to question Hayden's work ethic is borderline ridiculous. Find a rider in the paddock who is in better physical condition than Hayden.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 8 2007, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No bother mate was on the red wine when I posted, so my mistake!

Pete
No worries Pete, enjoy the race weekend.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>No rookie has won a race in their debut season since Rossi if I'm not mistaken

you are...Biaggi did... not only did he win on his debut season, but won the FIRST RACE of the season at SUZUKA his rookie year on a 500...

It says since rossi, Biaggi was a rookie in 98.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It says since rossi, Biaggi was a rookie in 98.

well i went a bit further back...

Biaggi had all the same HOOP-LA back then also..."4 time 250 champ, gonna take it to the 500 boys"...same as Perdrobot now....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, there are always fast riders winning races who havn't got what it takes to string a season together, and as a result never achieve much. Rossi is of course a special case of a rider who usually has consistency with his blinding speed (2005 as you said) , but not many riders can do that. A rider who has really got what it takes will be fast every weekend even when things are holding them back, and that wins world titles. Watch your 2006 tapes and you'll find Nicky featuring near the top of almost every race.
I'm sorry but I disagree. A rider who has really got what it takes will be near the frt pushing for a WIN. I watched ALL of the races from the 06 several times and saw a racer who was content to guard a lead he never had to fight to obtain.

Near the top is 2nd place.

SS

Yeah, and Doohan said it wasn't that impressive because the unleaded fuel made the 500's easy to ride. Just like all this size and weight advantage crap going on now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Mar 8 2007, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry but I disagree. A rider who has really got what it takes will be near the frt pushing for a WIN. I watched ALL of the races from the 06 several times and saw a racer who was content to guard a lead he never had to fight to obtain.

Near the top is 2nd place.

SS

But a rider who rides with his head would rather come home in 3rd or 4th than fall off trying to win a race. And to claim Nicky didn't fight to obtain his lead is rediculous. Think back to the Jerez race where he took third from nowhere in pre-season. OR france when he rode with bronchitis, or Mugello when he rode the 14th slowest bike to third place barely behind the italians. He didn't start "gaurding his lead" as you call it untill deep in the second half of the season when he was having trouble with his clutch and wasn't willing to throw his hard work from earlier away.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 8 2007, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First of all you're selling Pedrosa short (no pun intended). He won more races his rookie year than anyone since Rossi. So don't make this out to be that Hayden's win tally was matched by just some rookie. No rookie has won a race in their debut season since Rossi if I'm not mistaken. So to use that stat is rather misleading.

Secondly to question Hayden's work ethic is borderline ridiculous. Find a rider in the paddock who is in better physical condition than Hayden.
No worries Pete, enjoy the race weekend.
I enjoy being ridiculous, it makes these conversation entertaining.

Jeff Ward was probably the most fit racer in the IRL when he raced and look how many titles he won, and I'm a hugh gfan of Wardy. If we were talking about MX then it's a hugh factor but not nearly as much on road bike.
Now don't go saying I said it doesn't matter because it does but do you really think Nicky's superior conditioning (if it is indeed superior) has any bearing on him winning 3 races in the past 4 years?

SS

I would say some of haydens laguna 06 win could be put down to his incredible fitness. To be less fatigued than the other riders and able to focuss more deeply will really have played into his hands.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, and Doohan said it wasn't that impressive because the unleaded fuel made the 500's easy to ride. Just like all this size and weight advantage crap going on now.
But a rider who rides with his head would rather come home in 3rd or 4th than fall off trying to win a race. And to claim Nicky didn't fight to obtain his lead is rediculous. Think back to the Jerez race where he took third from nowhere in pre-season. OR france when he rode with bronchitis, or Mugello when he rode the 14th slowest bike to third place barely behind the italians. He didn't start "gaurding his lead" as you call it untill deep in the second half of the season when he was having trouble with his clutch and wasn't willing to throw his hard work from earlier away.The greats in any sport will always go for the win.

Now. Last round rider "A" leads the championship by 2 pts over rider "B".

5 laps in the race remain and riders A and B are .3 apart and 10 seconds ahead of 3rd.

4 laps later the positions of A and B are reversed.

Question is .... who wins? The man who is accustomed to winning or the man who isn't?

Better yet ... you could win $1000 with a $5.00 bet on rider A (the winner) or $2000 with a $5.00 bet on rider B .... who do you bet on?




Rossi!

SS

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Mar 8 2007, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The greats in any sport will always go for the win.

The greats also no when to stop. And i'd say nicky judged it pretty well considering he barely fell off his bike all year and took the world title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 8 2007, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The greats also no when to stop. And i'd say nicky judged it pretty well considering he barely fell off his bike all year and took the world title.
So you consider him to be one of the greats?

I wish thar was a pop corn eating smilie in here.

SS

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 8 2007, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>^^ I have to disagree with you there Tom. Nicky has raced Laguna more that anyone in Motogp with the exception of CE. I will state once again that even though I am not a Hayden fan he is the champ. You do not luck your way into a championship. Why does this always come up?

what he said !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Mar 8 2007, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you consider him to be one of the greats?

I wish thar was a pop corn eating smilie in here.

SS

I actually don't consider him one of the greats but its too early to rule him out of that this early in his career. My point was that every rider out there is going for the win. And a great rider will push that little extra for every last point, which nicky did all year. And although that was 25 points every weekend like we have been seeing rossi (undisputed great) get recently, its was a champions ride and he never went to far and through it away (mr rossi is guilty of this).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 8 2007, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>^^ I have to disagree with you there Tom. Nicky has raced Laguna more that anyone in Motogp with the exception of CE. I will state once again that even though I am not a Hayden fan he is the champ. You do not luck your way into a championship. Why does this always come up?

You what? I am on no level trying to take anything away from Nicky. I am a Hayden fan for gods sake, i never said he won his title using luck, or didnt intend to anyway.