Under-Rated and Over-Rated Riders

I imagine this is when I'll make my first friends and enemies here.

Overrated:

Colin Edwards: For me, the biggest disappointment of the grid. Rossi no doubt gets the special treatment in the team, especially these days.(a la Micheal Schumacher vs. Massa or anyother "team mate" Schumi's ever had in Ferrari), but this still shouldn't account for the huge performance difference. Colin has only been able to shine on a handful of occasions. Poor, I'd say. Superbikes is a better home for him I think.

Nicki Hayden: Also on my list of underachievers. What's it now? 3, 4 years with the best team on the grid and has only just now started to show the ability to finish on the podium. Plus, a 20 year old shrimp from 250cc shows up and starts showing you around the track from the beginning of his first season. It's Nicki's team! -Won't be for long. (Sorry to be harsh, but I had hopes for Nicki and he's let me down.)

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Underrated:

Kenny Roberts Jr.: Last year when he was hanging out in the back of the pack 10 seconds off the pace, this really marred his image. As this year has moved along, and they've made a deal with Honda (engines, rights?) he is showing his raw talent with a 1/2 decent bike. With the limited budget of KRR, it's really impressive that he's able to even come within 2 seconds of the official teams lap times. Let's not forget he is a former WC.

John Hopkins: Someone give this guy a good bike (and tires!), PLEASE!
When the package and track have been friendly to one another, he's been really fast. Where was it he got a pole? I still think he has a chance at running consistantly up front with a proper bike/tires.


Funny, I've covered all 4 US riders. Not intentionally. (I think Hopkins is half British, or his parents are Brits.)

Thanks ctkell.

I've lost my faith in Hopper.

Why does everyone think Gibernau is over rated? I dont think he is at all, I know he has 2 bad seasons including last season but in 2003 and 2004 especially he would always have a good battles with Rossi unlike any other rider, but thats my opinion

He was more or less a disappointment before his Telefonica Honda ride in 2003. That's my reason for saying he WAS overrated. I've actually come to like the guy since his switch to Ducati.

i can't write sete off totally just yet, bad luck has plagued his prime years but he was the only guy who took it to rossi regularly in the past, and beat him a few times too. the suzuki was crap when he was on it so i can see past the pre honda woes. maybe if he gets another chance on a competitive bike he could come back some and get near the front again, he's got the experience.

i really would love to see a comeback from sete, more than anything else. But i fear its never going to happen. I thought the return of gibbers had happened earileer in the year where he was leading in the race, but my hopes were dashed when he dropped back so quickly due to his 'toe scraper' wearing off ... gibbers for a return next year???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Aug 23 2006, 02:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've lost my faith in Hopper.

how come Ooost?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Aug 22 2006, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've lost my faith in Hopper.Hopper should be on a honda.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katt @ Aug 23 2006, 01:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i really would love to see a comeback from sete, more than anything else. But i fear its never going to happen. I thought the return of gibbers had happened earileer in the year where he was leading in the race, but my hopes were dashed when he dropped back so quickly due to his 'toe scraper' wearing off ... gibbers for a return next year??Gibbers is one of those guys that everything has to be perfect on the day, a bit ocd like kocinski, i'd like to see him sort his head and get mixing it again..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katt @ Aug 22 2006, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> ... yer ill join ur side the day.... richo stops payin out stoner ... how do those odds look?

Actually, Katt, when they talked to him after the race in Brno he said somthing like "I think I need to improve my technique". WOW! Stoner being modest! That`s a first. Still a long way from tolerating the guy, but that`s a step in the right direction. Maybe a year or so with the big boys will humble arrogant little Casey yet.... now it`s your turn to stick up for Rossi... And Pedrosa... And Biaggi, Bin Laden and Hitler

skid or anyone who cares, do you reckon it could be possible for gibbers ever to return to his 2004 form? or is he only ever gonna come back and have the occasional highlights?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Aug 23 2006, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually, Katt, when they talked to him after the race in Brno he said somthing like "I think I need to improve my technique". WOW! Stoner being modest! That`s a first. Still a long way from tolerating the guy, but that`s a step in the right direction. Maybe a year or so with the big boys will humble arrogant little Casey yet.... now it`s your turn to stick up for Rossi... And Pedrosa... And Biaggi, Bin Laden and Hitler

jesus ... this world is turnin topsy turvy

actually richo, stoner has been saying stuff like that for ages ... his attitude is changing, really. You must have been missing some of his interview or post race quotes, coz he's been quite well behaved in regards to his arrogance...

as for rossi ... i have been sticking up for him a little lately! ... and pedrosa i think i did once ...thats ONCE and ONCE only!
biaggi .... i adore and as for bid laden dont get me started, and hitler ... my views on him are not often appreciated

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katt @ Aug 23 2006, 05:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>skid or anyone who cares, do you reckon it could be possible for gibbers ever to return to his 2004 form?
i'm not gonna count him out just yet. if he can keep his head together & stay healthy, i see no reason why he could'nt come back & be a top runner. he's def got the speed & talent. he just need's that mental thing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katt @ Aug 22 2006, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>how come Ooost?
He's been at it too long with very little to show for it. Sure, he's done some pretty impressive things on the Suzuki but he's still riding for Suzuki. The most underfunded and possibly overhyped team on the grid. Each year they claim they'll turn it around and each year Johnny Hopper Show Stopper buys it and signs for them again. I pray Vermeulen gets out of there before it's too late. Hopkins had an opportunity to go to Ducati before 2005 and again in 2006 as well as possible Honda and Yamaha rides in 2006 but declined them all to stay the number one rider and be in control of development of a bike that will ultimately be mediocre at best. All that and he has this imaginary rivalry with Hayden. I won't hide the fact that I'm a Hayden supporter but I certainly don't dislike his rivals sheerly because they are his rivals. The fact is, Hopkins and Hayden haven't raced straight up ever. Ever. If Hopkins could keep up with Hayden and they had a real rivalry, I would love it. It would be like the days of Rainey and Schwantz. The sad thing is, Hopkins could have made it happen if he signed with Ducati. But he didn't and he continues living in a fantasy world where he and Hayden are arch rivals battling over... well... Red Bull publicity. Sorry for the novel.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katt @ Aug 23 2006, 05:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>skid or anyone who cares, do you reckon it could be possible for gibbers ever to return to his 2004 form? or is he only ever gonna come back and have the occasional highlights?
I'd certainly like to see him return to 2003/2004 form but I don't think it will happen. He was average when he rode for Repsol Honda and Suzuki. It took a series of extreme circumstances for him to find whatever it is that he found in himself. His relationship and loss with Kato, his faith in Fausto Gresini, the entire Gresini team, a happy relationship with sponsors and say in the development in his bike. It was a good time for him and he was fast. I don't think he can recreate that magic and it's sad. He's a real character and a real nice guy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Aug 24 2006, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's been at it too long with very little to show for it. Sure, he's done some pretty impressive things on the Suzuki but he's still riding for Suzuki. The most underfunded and possibly overhyped team on the grid. Each year they claim they'll turn it around and each year Johnny Hopper Show Stopper buys it and signs for them again. I pray Vermeulen gets out of there before it's too late. Hopkins had an opportunity to go to Ducati before 2005 and again in 2006 as well as possible Honda and Yamaha rides in 2006 but declined them all to stay the number one rider and be in control of development of a bike that will ultimately be mediocre at best.
I thought there were other reasons holding him at suzuki, like family ties, but that sound quite stupid now ive read that and thought about it ...

so what ur saying is that hopkins is being led to beleive that the bike is gonna get better? or is it that he just wants to stay no. 1 rider? ...

and as for the development of the suzuki, i feel that they have made quite a bit of improvent this year ... maybe i have a bias opinion because of Vermuel's, but thy look more competitive than previous years ... and would having bikes in the smaller classes like the 250's and 125's possibly help in anyway? sorry for the dumb questions

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Aug 24 2006, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All that and he has this imaginary rivalry with Hayden. I won't hide the fact that I'm a Hayden supporter but I certainly don't dislike his rivals sheerly because they are his rivals. The fact is, Hopkins and Hayden haven't raced straight up ever. Ever. If Hopkins could keep up with Hayden and they had a real rivalry, I would love it. It would be like the days of Rainey and Schwantz. The sad thing is, Hopkins could have made it happen if he signed with Ducati. But he didn't and he continues living in a fantasy world where he and Hayden are arch rivals battling over... well... Red Bull publicity. Sorry for the novel.
thats the first i have heard of that .... i thought they were kinda mates ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katt @ Aug 23 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought there were other reasons holding him at suzuki, like family ties, but that sound quite stupid now ive read that and thought about it ...

so what ur saying is that hopkins is being led to beleive that the bike is gonna get better? or is it that he just wants to stay no. 1 rider? ...

and as for the development of the suzuki, i feel that they have made quite a bit of improvent this year ... maybe i have a bias opinion because of Vermuel's, but thy look more competitive than previous years ... and would having bikes in the smaller classes like the 250's and 125's possibly help in anyway? sorry for the dumb questions
I know he has a very strong relationship with his team at Suzuki which was one of his reasons for staying put. I'm saying it's both, he's constantly being led to believe that the bike will improve and it has but not enough and he wants to be a number one rider and take credit for developing a winner if it ever becomes one.

I don't think Suzuki building and developing 125s and 250s would help them in MotoGP. Just more costs to a factory that is underfunded.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katt @ Aug 23 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats the first i have heard of that .... i thought they were kinda mates ...
They don't get along. They keep it friendly and say hello in passing and whatnot but Hopkins has said his number one rival is Hayden. Hopkins gets on real well with Hofmann, McWilliams, Bayliss and Edwards. Hayden seems to get on with Stoner and besides him, I've never seen Hayden hang out with any other riders.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Aug 24 2006, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They don't get along. They keep it friendly and say hello in passing and whatnot but Hopkins has said his number one rival is Hayden. Hopkins gets on real well with Hofmann, McWilliams, Bayliss and Edwards. Hayden seems to get on with Stoner and besides him, I've never seen Hayden hang out with any other riders.
funny that ... i never seemed to notice a rivalry there ... but in naming hayden as his no. 1 rival ... i guess its setting his hopes high? ....

did they ever race closely in the AMA at all? coz that could kinda be an ongoing thing from there? .... ttttt i dunno im making excuses

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katt @ Aug 24 2006, 03:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought there were other reasons holding him at suzuki, like family ties, but that sound quite stupid now ive read that and thought about it ...

so what ur saying is that hopkins is being led to beleive that the bike is gonna get better? or is it that he just wants to stay no. 1 rider? ...

and as for the development of the suzuki, i feel that they have made quite a bit of improvent this year ... maybe i have a bias opinion because of Vermuel's, but thy look more competitive than previous years ... and would having bikes in the smaller classes like the 250's and 125's possibly help in anyway? sorry for the dumb questions
thats the first i have heard of that .... i thought they were kinda mates ...

katt, just to add to ooost, I really think that hopper and vermeulen have been sold a lemon, the suzuki guys have been raving every winter for years now about how fantastic next years bike is gonna be but every year it dissapoints, it's like a standard statement every year. i think the guys and their management have bought their story. i don't believe that being no.1 rider is any fun when you're struggling for a point. stealing vermeulen from honda was quite a coup for suzuki plus i think chris was badly advised by a lot of people. kenny believed them, how else did they hold on to krjr for as long as they did? how many years has hopper 'wasted' ?( only my opinion of course ) ..... sad sad stuff.

Suzuki have made some improvements this year but i wonder how much of that is down to the progress that bridgestone have made?

it is sad ... i knew the team were a bit full of hot wind, but i hadn't realised how long it had gone on for ...
truthfully, i only like the 'zukes coz of their riders and the colour scheme ... (that Rizla blue mmmm)

.... i can't tell you how upset i was wen i found out vermuelen was moving to the suzuki MGP team. can't help but think what mite have become had he stuck it out and waited for a honda ride.

you say he was badly advised Skid? ... by whom? ... i thought he had good advice thrown his way

geez talk about learning ... this thread is opening my eyes...

Every superbiker who ever had a go at GP's, and even some who didn't were all advising him that a factory ride is the ONLY way to start in motogp, namely Bayliss, Hodgson and anyone else who was friendly with someone at MCN. Even Kevin Schwantz was saying it was the best way to go, although he has nothing to do with Suzuki anymore...cough. He had a honda seat and was talked out of it, granted, probably for more wages AND a two year contract at Suzuki, as if it could be any worse. I'd love to ask him if he'd make the same choice again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Aug 24 2006, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd love to ask him if he'd make the same choice again.

that could possibly be arranged ...

doohan was also advising him ... but i doubt it very much that he told he to accept a seat with suzuki of all people

Keep in mind that Vermeulen was very close to Barry Sheene and Sheene was a Suzuki man. I'm sure that had some influence on him as well. Skid's spot on, everyone who rode SBK and MotoGP said a factory seat is the only way to go. They're partially right but none of them had any positive years with a satellite team. Edwards was left for dead when he was with Gresini Honda in 2004, same goes for Bayliss at Pons Honda in 2005 and Hodgson was hardly even an also ran with d'Antin Ducati in 2004. No one felt like telling him about the satellite successes of Alex Barros, Sete Gibernau or Marco Melandri (all of which on satellite Hondas, which Vermeulen would have been on).

And Katt, I don't think Hayden and Hopkins ever raced eachother in AMA competition. Hayden rode Formula Xtreme and Supersport in 1999, Superbike and Supersport in 2000 and 2001 and Superbike only in 2002. Hopkins' first full year was 2001 I believe and he rode Formula Xtreme and either Supersport or 750 Superstock. It's possible they raced together in the Supersport class for a season but Hayden was on the full factory American Honda effort and Hopkins was with a privateer Suzuki team. If they did ever race, their experience and teams would have kept them pretty well separated on track.

I'm not just saying this 'cause he's my fave, but I personally think Loris Capirossi isn't given the credit he deserves sometimes.

I think Bradley Smith is overrated but that's bout it.