Troy Bayliss to test Ducati GP9

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ May 14 2009, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>While I agree with you in regards to CS' style I qould ask whether the telemetry is indeed accurate and whether it shows any lack of throttle precision by CS.

IMO, if the telemetry is accurate then what it shows is not poor throttle control and instead accurate and exceelent use of the electronic systems at hand as they would regulat the amount of 'true' throttle applied based upon the various sensors. To me, if a rider is able to utilise electronics and basically 'twist to stop' and allow the electronics to work for them, then they cannot be accused of poor throttle control or any such failing (realise you do not say this nor allude it).

In all honesty however, IMO the telemetry we see on the coverage is not accurate as there were times during the CS vs JL battle late in the race where JL was clearly on the brakes (front compressed) yet the telemetry had him on full or large part throttle. To me the display is actually out of synch slightly and not in 'real time' thus our judgements are flawed based upon that vision.

As for his general riding style however whilst I do see an amazing level of presision in regards to track position (which is a trait of all top riders) I also do not see precision in terms of smoothness which I feel is Rossi. To me, VR is smooth, very smooth and it is what makes him so good as he does not tend to 'stress' the machine unnecessarily, whereas (again to me) CS is and always has been a very physical rider and prefers a more aggressive approach.

Neither style is right, neither is wrong as it is their individual styles and personally I find the contrast incredibly interesting to watch.







Garry
To be honest i dont know how accurate the telemetry indicators are. Quite often Rossi and Stoners are shown together when dueling and are commented on by the tv commentators and mamola in the past so they cant be far out for the most part i would think.

I agree that maybe opening the throttle wide and letting the electronics do there job may be the correct way to ride this bike. Who can argue with the man about that if he is winning races. I just don't consider that to be "precision" riding as Bunyip stated, altho to be fair bunyip didnt mention anything to do with throttle, that was me. He just labeled casey as a "very precise rider".
As for race lines, casey is very presise when he has clear track ahead, not so presise when having to alter lines to fight through the pack. I just think to say he is a precision rider from the rossi mould is streaching it more than a tad.

Better get back on topic before the new forum self appointed mod geonerd crys out for going off topic. Bayliss rocks

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 14 2009, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for race lines, casey is very presise when he has clear track ahead, not so presise when having to alter lines to fight through the pack. I just think to say he is a precision rider from the rossi mould is streaching it more than a tad.

I don't think dorna have as yet made it mandatory for all bikes to have the same characteristics as valentino's and all riders to choose the same lines as valentino; whilst dorna (probably temporarily) leave this loophole I imagine stoner and ducati will continue to seek any advantage they can in assaying the admittedly difficult task of defeating rossi.

I think the deliberately engineered nature of the ducati has something to do with the precision which ducati riders including casey can exhibit in choosing lines around or through corners; being the only ducati rider able to manouevre the thing around or through corners with or without traffic in any manner approaching rapidity or indeed competitive with the other major contenders I would have thought warranted praise rather than criticism .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 14 2009, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think dorna have as yet made it mandatory for all bikes to have the same characteristics as valentino's and all riders to choose the same lines as valentino; whilst dorna (probably temporarily) leave this loophole I imagine stoner and ducati will continue to seek any advantage they can in assaying the admittedly difficult task of defeating rossi.

I think the deliberately engineered nature of the ducati has something to do with the precision which ducati riders including casey can exhibit in choosing lines around or through corners; being the only ducati rider able to manouevre the thing around or through corners with or without traffic in any manner approaching rapidity or indeed competitive with the other major contenders I would have thought warranted praise rather than criticism .
I dont think my observations are criticisms of casey's , nor am i suggesting he should or could use the same lines as vale. Im just suggesting he is not so smooth and precise when using alternitive lines. All im doing is what Roy walker says. "say what you see".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 14 2009, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dont think my observations are criticisms of casey's , nor am i suggesting he should or could use the same lines as vale. Im just suggesting he is not so smooth and precise when using alternitive lines. All im doing is what Roy walker says. "say what you see".
I would agree that trying to devise a bike more precise than one developed by valentino and trying to ride more precisely than him are strategies unlikely to be fruitful if even possible, hence ducati's alternative strategy employing stoner serendipitously or otherwise. It may end up being successful for only one year, but it would seem to me to be ingenious and admirable rather than exploitative of an unfair technical advantage as many have suggested.

LINK


Bayliss: Before Anyone Gets Any Ideas ...
by staff
Thursday, May 14, 2009
This just in:

Ducati Press Area: Moto GP

Mugello Test
Thursday May 14 2009Mugello Test

End

TESTING CONCLUDES POSITIVELY FOR TROY BAYLISS AND VITTORIANO GUARESCHI AT THE MUGELLO TRACK

(Mugello Circuit, Italy). The test session that saw Troy Bayliss ride the Desmosedici GP9 together with official test rider Vittoriano Guareschi has today concluded at the Italian track of Mugello. Bayliss enjoyed his time on track and has got back into the riding, six months after his retirement from Superbike racing and having not ridden a bike since then. On leaving the Tuscan track this afternoon he declared he was satisfied with his pace after having had only three days to ride. 1m51.2, the best time registered by the Australian this week, is a very respectable time, also considering the fact that the MotoGP 800cc machine was totally new to him. Official GP test rider Vittoriano Guareschi also recorded a similar fastest time of 1m51.4 during the three useful track days.

"I've had three good days during which I've felt like a rider again", said a smiling Bayliss. "It didn't take long to get back into it but, before anyone gets any ideas, I will also say that I'm happy to be heading back to the airport and towards Australia and home this evening: I have no intention of returning to racing! Having said that, I have had fun and I hope at the same time that I've been of use to Filippo (Preziosi). We worked each day on the bike and each day I was able to push harder, until I started to record some respectable times. Now I'll stay home for a while but later in June or July I'll be back in Europe for a few weeks. I will probably test the bike again during that time, I don't know exactly when, but I am very happy to play a part in this project!"

"Working with Troy has been useful because he has a very different riding style to Vittoriano" commented Filippo Preziosi, "and so it's been interesting and beneficial to hear his impressions of the GP9 also. We worked on chassis set-ups that are pretty different from those which we usually use and the results were promising although we need to look at this further. Congratulations to Vittoriano who is in great shape right now! After his excellent results in the Jerez Time Attack, he has also recorded his best ever time at Mugello this week with a 1m51.4s. We are proud to have such a diligent and fast test rider and that we can count on Troy's great experience to continue to improve our bike".

Finally a link! Thanks Jumkie!

I don't think this bodes well compared to last years times.

Bayliss set a 1'51.2
Stoner's FL 1'50.003

Fast laps @ Mugello
1 1 Casey STONER AUS Ducati Marlboro Team DUCATI 1'50.003 5 23
2 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Fiat Yamaha Team YAMAHA 1'50.034 5 23 0.031 0.031
3 2 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team HONDA 1'50.131 5 23 0.128 0.097
4 15 Alex DE ANGELIS RSM San Carlo Honda Gresini HONDA 1'50.179 8 23 0.176 0.048
5 5 Colin EDWARDS USA Tech 3 Yamaha YAMAHA 1'50.502 6 23 0.499 0.323
6 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA JiR Team Scot MotoGP HONDA 1'50.511 4 23 0.508 0.009
7 48 Jorge LORENZO SPA Fiat Yamaha Team YAMAHA 1'50.518 6 6 0.515 0.007
8 65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP SUZUKI 1'50.523 2 23 0.520 0.005
9 52 James TOSELAND GBR Tech 3 Yamaha YAMAHA 1'50.696 2 23 0.693 0.173
10 56 Shinya NAKANO JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini HONDA 1'50.886 11 23 0.883 0.190
11 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Repsol Honda Team HONDA 1'50.909 2 23 0.906 0.023

QP at Mugello
GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA ALICE
MotoGP Qualifying Practice Classification
Pos. Num. Rider Nation Team Motorcycle Lap time Km/h Gap
1 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Fiat Yamaha Team Yamaha 1'48.130 325.399
2 2 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 1'48.297 326.382 0.167
3 65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki 1'48.313 326.185 0.183
4 1 Casey STONER AUS Ducati Marlboro Team Ducati 1'48.375 329.770 0.245
5 5 Colin EDWARDS USA Tech 3 Yamaha Yamaha 1'48.383 324.519 0.253
6 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Repsol Honda Team Honda 1'48.666 323.159 0.536

Hmm, to be honest I expected a little bit better time from Bayliss.
Gibernau made 1'50.50 on race tyres last year on a similar test, after 2 years of retirement.
However the circumstances could be different (carbon frame, tyres, track temperatur)...I don't know.
Ok, I have to correct myself...now I checked last year's results and it seems he rode the Duc appr. as fast as Melandri did last year. On a bike he never rode before this seems ok.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (torro @ May 14 2009, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On a bike he never rode before this seems ok.
I kinda agree. However, Troy is a fast expeirienced guy with more talented than Vitto. He shoulda beaten Marco's times.
Compared to last year, this bike has a carbon swingarm/airbox and the newest bridgestone tires.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2009, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This whole tyre debate is flawed by the fact that evidently none of us here know what we are talking about. The commonly quoted forumula for frictional forces and co-efficient of friction are an approximation for static conditions and actual tyre performance (particularly in racing) is far more complicated. Also the basic understanding assumes a perfectly flat and level road which is unrealistic, especially as loss of grip is usually started from fluctuatios in the road surface causing the tyre loads to rise suddenly. These things are governed by the bikes chassis, suspension and orientation coupled with the riders inputs.
yes you are correct, im sure there are even more variables than stated above that even the engineers in this field are yet to understand. that how we get improvements.

I have to alter the picture a little bit again:
Gibernau made the 1'50.5 on his SECOND test in Mugello last year. On his first test (a month earlier) he made 1'51.7.
Remember Canepa was testing the Duke all year in 2008 and he made exactly the same best laptime as Bayliss there.
So this 1'51.2 from Bayliss is quite good on his first outing on the 800.

comparing apples to oranges guys.

stoner did 148 at jerez with his eyes closed the whole lap. but a month later could only do 149. yeas coz stoner from 2 months ago is a worse rider than last week??

ummm no, coz fucken conditions change. jeeez some people....

and the people that who know how to setup a bike may be a bit busy this weekend too coz prob there concentrating on a a little bike race somewhere in france???

The truth is that Bayliss is a great SBK champ, but only a good MotoGP rider. That single win in Valencia 2006 remains an anomaly, his value in MotoGP has always been only slightly above average... Not to mention his age, the 6 moths of inactivity, the completely new bike, and the fact that of course he was not willing to risk a collar bone for a mere test.

Bayliss was only 2 tenths better than Guareschi in these tests, 1.2 seconds slower than Stoner 2008. My feeling is that if Ducati were looking for something in these tests, it didn't materialize.

Idea. Maybe Ducati should simply ask every rider in the circus to test their Desmosedici--every single rider in 125, 250 and also superbike. Gathering a humongous amount of useless data while really hoping to find by chance another Stoner...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 14 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The truth is that Bayliss is a great SBK champ, but only a good MotoGP rider. That single win in Valencia 2006 remains an anomaly, his value in MotoGP has always been only slightly above average... Not to mention his age, the 6 moths of inactivity, the completely new bike, and the fact that of course he was not willing to risk a collar bone for a mere test.

J4, your post sounds way too dismissive.

Consider the machine, very experimental at the time. Its tantimount to having three podiums by something like the KR machine.

The Valencia win is perhaps one of the single most amazing feats achieved, a win at any MotoGP event is something to write home about, a win in a one-off race on a unique bike is frankly amazing!

Again, the prototype nature of the series is the most misunderstood aspect of the sport.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Bayliss was only 2 tenths better than Guareschi in these tests, 1.2 seconds slower than Stoner 2008. My feeling is that if Ducati were looking for something in these tests, it didn't materialize.


Really? Not impressive eh? Let me see, the Ducati 800 is by far the most unique and strange bike on the gird, they call on a retired guy to give it a go, and within a day of riding it he bests the regular test rider, and is within 1.2 of the freak Casey, and you're not impressed? That deserves a >>

What did you think, that he would match a rider that is the fastest on the grid in full swing of a title chase (which is the lap time you are comparing).

I have to agree with J4rn0 on this one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 15 2009, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The truth is that Bayliss is a great SBK champ, but only a good MotoGP rider. That single win in Valencia 2006 remains an anomaly, his value in MotoGP has always been only slightly above average... Not to mention his age, the 6 moths of inactivity, the completely new bike, and the fact that of course he was not willing to risk a collar bone for a mere test.

Bayliss was only 2 tenths better than Guareschi in these tests, 1.2 seconds slower than Stoner 2008. My feeling is that if Ducati were looking for something in these tests, it didn't materialize.

Idea. Maybe Ducati should simply ask every rider in the circus to test their Desmosedici--every single rider in 125, 250 and also superbike. Gathering a humongous amount of useless data while really hoping to find by chance another Stoner...
As usual, J4rn0 is right. It's starting to piss me off

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ May 7 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like I said in another thread, Stoner has exactly 4 times as long with Ducati and the bike than Hayden. If the bike still needs development work after the time, then Stoner really has some problems as well.
Stoner is a hypocrite and can't develop a bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ May 14 2009, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner is a hypocrite and can't develop a bike.
Well whatever the hell he is doing he's doing right!!!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ May 15 2009, 04:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner is a hypocrite and can't develop a bike.


How do you (or anyone else) Know that Stoner cannot develop a bike?

There does seem to be a misconception at times that the job of Stoner (in this case but generally the lead rider) is to develop a bike that all other riders can ride successfully, but IMO nothing could be further from the truth.

The job of Stoner in development terms (or Rossi etc) is to develop a bike that allows them to produce the best results possible, and then to further develop it to allow those results to improve. Development by Stoner etc is all about themselves and making sure that their package is the best possible be that by updates or setting changes. It is not to develop the bike so others can ride it.

Certainly the factory would not complain if bike development made the bikes more 'friendly' to other riders but that is the job of the factory tester and the others riders.

Just as Rossi did not develop the Yamaha so others could ride it successfully nor should or is Stoner if it is to his detriment.




Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 15 2009, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The truth is that Bayliss is a great SBK champ, but only a good MotoGP rider. That single win in Valencia 2006 remains an anomaly, his value in MotoGP has always been only slightly above average... Not to mention his age, the 6 moths of inactivity, the completely new bike, and the fact that of course he was not willing to risk a collar bone for a mere test.

Bayliss was only 2 tenths better than Guareschi in these tests, 1.2 seconds slower than Stoner 2008. My feeling is that if Ducati were looking for something in these tests, it didn't materialize.

Idea. Maybe Ducati should simply ask every rider in the circus to test their Desmosedici--every single rider in 125, 250 and also superbike. Gathering a humongous amount of useless data while really hoping to find by chance another Stoner...

Well if anything, i believe those 1.2 seconds slower is closer to Stoner than any of the current Ducati rider havce managed to do till now.

I'm gonna sit on the fence a little here

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 15 2009, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The truth is that Bayliss is a great SBK champ, but only a good MotoGP rider. That single win in Valencia 2006 remains an anomaly, his value in MotoGP has always been only slightly above average... Not to mention his age, the 6 moths of inactivity, the completely new bike, and the fact that of course he was not willing to risk a collar bone for a mere test.

Bayliss was a great SBK rider - possibly one of the best ever.
Given the oportunities, I think Bayliss could have been a great MotoGP rider on the 990's. Not sure if he would be great on the 800's.
The fact that Bayliss is held in high enough regard by Ducati to be brought in for the test, and that he is able to put down fast lap times,at 40, after 6 months inactivity, and on a completely unfamiliar bike, should be a testiment to the guy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 15 2009, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>J4, your post sounds way too dismissive.
Consider the machine, very experimental at the time. Its tantimount to having three podiums by something like the KR machine.
The Valencia win is perhaps one of the single most amazing feats achieved, a win at any MotoGP event is something to write home about, a win in a one-off race on a unique bike is frankly amazing!

Not impressive eh? Let me see, the Ducati 800 is by far the most unique and strange bike on the gird, they call on a retired guy to give it a go, and within a day of riding it he bests the regular test rider, and is within 1.2 of the freak Casey, and you're not impressed? That deserves a >>

Agreed 100% Jumkie.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 15 2009, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bayliss was only 2 tenths better than Guareschi in these tests, 1.2 seconds slower than Stoner 2008. My feeling is that if Ducati were looking for something in these tests, it didn't materialize.

I disagree.
I think you are reading way too much in to the times. He was faster than the other rider on track, and that is all you can compare him against.
Bayliss was never going to match Stoner's pace, and anyone expecting that has unrealistic expectations.
No one knows what the test program was, and what Ducati were hoping to achieve.
I think Ducati have involved Bayliss in their MotoGP program, because he rides a bike like Hayden, and they are hoping Bayliss can help Hayden set the bike up to allow him to push harder. The interesting question would be whether Hayden would have been faster on the same track on the same day ????
I'm not sure.
I am sure Ducati will have taken away some benefits from Bayliss testing.

If not, well Troy has been given a million dollar MotoGP bike and been told to go have some fun and wring its neck. And Ducati probably paid him to do it.
Poor ........