Tissot Australian Grand Prix 2013
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It moved on the tyre temp did tell peddlers having got his up to temp
this is the out lap of Lorenzo after the bike change
Lorenzo up to the 60kmh board NEVER looked back
For other riders on track Dangerous thing to do
he could have come out anywhere and killed someone
The Left after Honda Hairpin Siberia-ish lol
The right hairpin MG After lukey heights .Edit
this is the out lap of Lorenzo after the bike change
Lorenzo up to the 60kmh board NEVER looked back
For other riders on track Dangerous thing to do
he could have come out anywhere and killed someone
The Left after Honda Hairpin Siberia-ish lol
The right hairpin MG After lukey heights .Edit
barbedwirebiker
Barbed, from reports the issue was that there were two parts to the communique that went out
Th part Honda liked and played to:
No rider is permitted to make more than 10 laps on any one slick or wet rear tyre. This means that a bike/tyre change before lap 9 will require a second bike/tyre change to finish the race.
This part was critical to Honda's 'but he had not crossed the finish line' defence however the next part is fairly unequivocal
And the part they missed, but was critical.
Every rider will be required to enter the pits and change to his second machine with fresh tyres at least once during the race. In normal circumstances this means that the rider must change machine only at the end of lap 9 or lap 10.
Thus, MM had started his 11th lap but had not finished however, by starting the 11th he had not stopped at the end of lap 10.
Thanks to the 'site that we cannot mention due to health reasons of some members who seem to get fired up at the sheer mention' for publishing the above rule extracts (but for all, they are around)
Barbed, from reports the issue was that there were two parts to the communique that went out
Th part Honda liked and played to:
No rider is permitted to make more than 10 laps on any one slick or wet rear tyre. This means that a bike/tyre change before lap 9 will require a second bike/tyre change to finish the race.
This part was critical to Honda's 'but he had not crossed the finish line' defence however the next part is fairly unequivocal
And the part they missed, but was critical.
Every rider will be required to enter the pits and change to his second machine with fresh tyres at least once during the race. In normal circumstances this means that the rider must change machine only at the end of lap 9 or lap 10.
Thus, MM had started his 11th lap but had not finished however, by starting the 11th he had not stopped at the end of lap 10.
Thanks to the 'site that we cannot mention due to health reasons of some members who seem to get fired up at the sheer mention' for publishing the above rule extracts (but for all, they are around)
Arrabbiata1
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barbedwirebiker
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Gaz
Thats pretty clear.
Thats pretty clear.
So Honda can count, they just can't read.
I'll watch the replay on TV tonight, but from what I can see the pit-lane exit line should've gone all the way to the exit of Turn 1. Could have been a career ending incident.
On track action was shambles, but the weather was beautiful. I met Marc on Saturday and he told me to stop touching him. Great moment.
I'll watch the replay on TV tonight, but from what I can see the pit-lane exit line should've gone all the way to the exit of Turn 1. Could have been a career ending incident.
On track action was shambles, but the weather was beautiful. I met Marc on Saturday and he told me to stop touching him. Great moment.
Pigeon
The slight flip-flop is the Hayshed
Siberia is the left after Honda with the ocean at the back of the GrandStand (Ianonne crashed her in practice) before heading down hill slightly to the Hayshed (riight) before climbing to the left of Lukey then falling to the right at MG.
As an aside, if ever, and I do mean ever anyone gets the opportunity to sit behind the wall between the Hayshed and Lukey (the wall near the shed, not the bush), take up the offer, sit, watch and enjoy. It is not an open public spot but without doubt (IMO) is simply one of the most breathtaking places to watch from.
The slight flip-flop is the Hayshed
Siberia is the left after Honda with the ocean at the back of the GrandStand (Ianonne crashed her in practice) before heading down hill slightly to the Hayshed (riight) before climbing to the left of Lukey then falling to the right at MG.
As an aside, if ever, and I do mean ever anyone gets the opportunity to sit behind the wall between the Hayshed and Lukey (the wall near the shed, not the bush), take up the offer, sit, watch and enjoy. It is not an open public spot but without doubt (IMO) is simply one of the most breathtaking places to watch from.
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kiddyK
Well said.
3649211382411237
You do know this is considered a dangerous sport, right? That tootling around at 200+MPH hanging onto the outside of a tank of petrol held up close to your nuts was never going to make it as the Nannies Top Five Favourite?
I wonder if it's a geographic thing. I've just yesterday had a long, involved conversation about vaccinations. A bloke was trying to convince me I needed typhoid, yellow fever, hep A and B and malaria inoculations because they were absolutely mandated. I was concerned because my employer has never said anything about getting inoculations, in fact, they said "You don't need any". Said bloke then pointed me to the relevant pages from the CDC and sure 'nuff, there were half a dozen diseases that were listed as 'very recommended' to get inoculations for.
So I head on over to the NZ health department, the Australian Health Department and the UK MOH and see what they have to say. They give a general warning about malaria and say if you are going to spend a lot of time in the jungle, good idea. They say hep B if you intend having unprotected ... and sharing drug paraphenalia and hep A if you are in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, India, Bangladesh - but that washing and prepping food properly is a very sound prophylactic measure to take. To be fair, Austrlaia has regularised hep inoculations for kids, so most of them are already vaccinated.
So, we have two completely different schools of thought as to what is deemed unsafe. The US CDC says you'd be ....... crazy not to get as many jabs as you can and still be able to drink on holiday, the Commonwealth countries say 'here are the risks, here are some sensible precautions'.
So, what I believe we have is a nation that has become intensely risk-averse versus some that believe in people deciding about the level of informed risk they want to subject themselves to, as long as they are informed.
I believe it is the same with GP racing. What you see as almost an admission of attempted murder, a lot of the rest of us see as 'racing incident', as do the riders themselves. Because, of course, the riders have avenues they can go down if they feel a rider is going outside the bounds of safety - as they did, more than once, with Simoncelli. And he was taken to task by the powers that be to be more cautious.
It's a dangerous sport, but they are also extremely gifted and able to control their actions to a level us mere mortals couldn't easily comprehend. They are also wearing some of the finest safety equipment known to man, and are attended by a full mobile operating theatre and extremely competent and motivated professionals.
As you have seen, when it gets dangerous, they put up their hand and want to stop racing - that is, when they get spots of water on their visor and are beetling around on slicks. They will, however, gleefully race round in this:
without a care in the world. Because, they have prepared for the rain and are set up for it. It is no more dangerous than a dry race, if you are careful.
The last death at a GP was Simoncelli. Who was responsible for that? What dangerous manoeuvre contributed to his demise? I would say the fault was entirely his own. A mistake.
The previous one was Tomizawa - again, who was responsible? What dangerous manoeuvre contributed to his demise? He was unlucky? It was a design issue? It was a failure? No, none of that. He fell off at speed and was hit by following riders after he made a mistake. His was the first death in a GP since 2003. More people die fishing than GP racing - it's a dangerous sport made more dangerous by a certain amount of complacency.
GP racing is a dangerous sport, but the things you are screaming about as being akin to sliding a knife in the ribs are nothing more than racing incidents. What is much more dangerous is allowing Hector Barbaric on the track under any circumstances. Sure, some of them may be as a result of an unthinking act by a rider, but the continued (how many posts in this thread alone by you trying to hammer home your point?) shoulda, coulda, woulda 20:20 hindsight argument that one rider is setting up the next victim in the gladiatorial arena that is GP is, in my view, unsustainable.
Well said.
J4rn0
Agreed.
However, speaking as someone who is not a renowned MM apologist, he did nearly come off the bike just prior to the the pit lane entrance, and there was some guff in there about "under normal circumstances" according to Gaz's posting of the scrap of paper message in question. They obviously should have texted or tweeted it to the riders, btw.
3649871382435458
Race direction should have stopped MM in the pits, period. Their reflexes are too slow to direct... races?
Agreed.
However, speaking as someone who is not a renowned MM apologist, he did nearly come off the bike just prior to the the pit lane entrance, and there was some guff in there about "under normal circumstances" according to Gaz's posting of the scrap of paper message in question. They obviously should have texted or tweeted it to the riders, btw.
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Jumkie
It would appear that you are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say that there was no way he could have not known he'd be black flagged and on the other you're saying he made a conscious decision to ignore the rule despite knowing the consequences. Given the amount of uproar there has been in the press re: MM's hands-off, kid glove treatment by RD / and the number of points he's collected on his license - and all the reprimands from Honda; to say nothing of the championship being on the line, the idea that MM would think his behavior was not under intense scrutiny is absurd. Points-wise, it would have been suicidal. He knew he could have well afforded to come in 2nd at this race and still have room to breathe over the course of the next two rounds. People keep pointing to what is touted as his youthful lack of impulse control, but we've all seen this year that MM is very capable of riding a very calculated race. I find it totally implausible to think he would risk a black flag for the sake of the off chance that RD would look the other way, in order to gain one position, when he was so far ahead in the points. It doesn't add up.
In battle (as in on a real battle field where bullets are wizzzing by and people are dying)
it's considered at the very least an admirable trait to be the kind of combatant that never
gives up despite being outnumbered 100 to 1; to fight to the death for a cause one believes
in; Audie Murphy and all that kind thing. But seems like no matter how much logic you try
to shoot holes through, the fox hole you're in is not one you're gonna climb out of. But that's
never stopped you before. Cool with me Compa. I've got wicked jet-lag; so what better way to while away
the sleepless night hours than banging back and forth with you over this .....
Peace,
K
3649371382424382
Have you not been paying attention?! Its not at all difficult to imagine why he would tempt race authority, because it has been overwhelming WEAK. He has got away with so much ...., why would this be any different was probably his first thought. Quite the opposite of what you conclude, why would he imagine he would be called to account?! Rich you would wit i'm approaching "sophist" territory, so far you haven't made the least dent in classic logic on our little debate man. Perhaps you haven't consulted Kropo enough, I'm sure he's got another stellar bit of spin for you to reiterate.
If he knew? He got a ....... piece of paper that told him what the .... to expect if he failed to comply.
Again, it seems you have not been paying attention, not just for this specific event but the season as a whole. Honestly, I don't even know what the .... you are arguing above here. This kid has made a career at ignoring rules. HIM and 4 other members sat around and analyzed Race Direction's official copy (you know, that inconspicuous document that might have got lost in a busy unorganized garage, because normally GP garages are as tranquil Buddhist meditation havens); and the first thought was NOT, ok, lets play it by the rules and obey, their first thought was, ok, how can we game the rules press for a loophole. This is Marc and his team's MO. Even after being told specifically and directly to be mindful, he defiantly stated he would not change! The ....... crew was not going to throw up their hands after he passed by failing to comply. They put on their best game face and pretended nothing was wrong, warmed up the bike and waited for Marc to pit, except everybody else watching knew they had ...... up. But because they 'acted' it out they fooled you and more importantly fooled Marc? Marc was in the room when they discussed what was required of them. Are you going to argue he was kept out of the loop? Perhaps that pit board to pit was really a 'surprise' to him then, haha? Not at all, he knew. What is worse, to announce they were confused about the rule ( that is trying to pass on the blame to race direction, as many have here, including Kropo) or admit they intended to game the system?
I fully believe Race Direction would not have penalized him with a DQ had they not forced their own hand by publishing the punishment before hand. You can bet they learned their lesson, somebody has taken a note to never again publish a penalty for failure to comply; as surely they would have preferred to give Marc the least and minimum penalty possible, as has been the standard.
It would appear that you are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say that there was no way he could have not known he'd be black flagged and on the other you're saying he made a conscious decision to ignore the rule despite knowing the consequences. Given the amount of uproar there has been in the press re: MM's hands-off, kid glove treatment by RD / and the number of points he's collected on his license - and all the reprimands from Honda; to say nothing of the championship being on the line, the idea that MM would think his behavior was not under intense scrutiny is absurd. Points-wise, it would have been suicidal. He knew he could have well afforded to come in 2nd at this race and still have room to breathe over the course of the next two rounds. People keep pointing to what is touted as his youthful lack of impulse control, but we've all seen this year that MM is very capable of riding a very calculated race. I find it totally implausible to think he would risk a black flag for the sake of the off chance that RD would look the other way, in order to gain one position, when he was so far ahead in the points. It doesn't add up.
In battle (as in on a real battle field where bullets are wizzzing by and people are dying)
it's considered at the very least an admirable trait to be the kind of combatant that never
gives up despite being outnumbered 100 to 1; to fight to the death for a cause one believes
in; Audie Murphy and all that kind thing. But seems like no matter how much logic you try
to shoot holes through, the fox hole you're in is not one you're gonna climb out of. But that's
never stopped you before. Cool with me Compa. I've got wicked jet-lag; so what better way to while away
the sleepless night hours than banging back and forth with you over this .....
Peace,
K
Jumkie
I actually as an Australian fan started to worry about the safety of our much vaunted "best track in the world" particularly given the previous massive V8 supercar shunt to which Gaz referred, but I think the problem was more the impromptu/last minute changes to the track design.
We just disagree on this my friend. My visceral response watching this live was the same as Keshav's (and it would seem Jorge's) that it was a not unexpected result of the way the race had been organised, not realising the full implication instantaneously that MM had already disqualified himself.
My immediate response to the Dani cable cut thing was the same as yours and different to that of many others, that he had at least carelessly, or possibly recklessly, and definitely unfairly, ...... Dani over.
I can only call things as I see them, and am trying to be less ideological in my old age.
I actually as an Australian fan started to worry about the safety of our much vaunted "best track in the world" particularly given the previous massive V8 supercar shunt to which Gaz referred, but I think the problem was more the impromptu/last minute changes to the track design.
We just disagree on this my friend. My visceral response watching this live was the same as Keshav's (and it would seem Jorge's) that it was a not unexpected result of the way the race had been organised, not realising the full implication instantaneously that MM had already disqualified himself.
My immediate response to the Dani cable cut thing was the same as yours and different to that of many others, that he had at least carelessly, or possibly recklessly, and definitely unfairly, ...... Dani over.
I can only call things as I see them, and am trying to be less ideological in my old age.
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Jumkie
Lorenzo had the calculated "luxury" of being that far ahead of Pedrosa when exiting pit lane. MM did not.
3649691382431204
Ah, I see your logic now, everybody was in sprint mode, as opposed to all the other GP races that are called "sprints". Marc was nipping at Lorenzo before for pit obligations. All three riders were locked up in the battle, actually two tenth between the three of them at one point. I'm stunned at your insistence to downplay Marc's culpability in the incident. Marc ....... No .... up, no discussion.
You want visual evidence? Take a looky. Lorenzo here exiting pit lane, look to the straight you will see Pedro. The next pic is them into the Doohan corner. No collision.
JLO exiting pit.png
JLO safely rejoining.png
Lorenzo had the calculated "luxury" of being that far ahead of Pedrosa when exiting pit lane. MM did not.
barbedwirebiker
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Second look on tonight for us aussies who dont pay to watch
