Tissot Australian Grand Prix 2013

Jumkie

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No, because apparently it was impossible to re-enter the race safely.  So there is no footage because everybody just parked their bike at the end of the pit exit and sat there.  Not even the other inexperienced rookies who have not seen or executed a flag to flag race attempted the maneuver.  


 


(If you have the race recorded, you will see Lorenzo exit the pit and rejoin safely infront of Pedrosa.  The thing is that it was done by magic. )

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He rejoined safely in front of Pedrosa because they were nowhere near each other, not because he was being safe. You really think he would have backed if off if they had been racing each other to Turn 1?


 


Also, how do you know every other rider re-entered the track safely?

Jumkie

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Mike, did you completely ignore my post refuting what you are now repeating?  If re-entering the track safely was so impossible how did everybody else manage it EXCEPT Marc Marquez?  WTF


 


Re-entry executed safely was possible, and your insistence to bring up Gaz, in support of Barb and Bat is mind-boggling.  Marc simply needed to stay longer on the outside margin instead of pressing the issue and going into the racing line as bikes were in such close proximity.  He knew they would be there as he looked back and saw (or should have seen) Lorenzo coming down the straight.  He chose not to do so causing a collision.  The world has gone ....... mad.

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There is a rather small sample size. Only Dani and MM re-joined out of sequence. There were problems with Dani re-joining as well, he actually got a penalty. Lorenzo may well have re-joined safely anyway, he is better than them imo, but him re-joining without problems could also have been related to him being several seconds in front of Pedrosa when he re-entered the track as I believe was the case. No-one else would have re-joined in front of Pedrosa


 


That there wouldn't have been a problem if he hadn't been trying to re-join a lap late is not in dispute, and I have argued that from the get-go.


 


If you want to argue that MM and/or his crew were unnecessarily and unwisely trying to gain an advantage from gaming the pit strategy, I agree it is possible, and in fact was the one who raised that possibility; I also think it is possible they just stuffed up as both have been known to do (EDIT particularly having just watched it again and as someone said earlier in the thread given that he nearly came off the bike just before the pit entrance).

These damn Spaniards, conspiring to ruin this series in cahoots with Repsol through blatant favouring and protection of riders like Pedrosa and Marqu...oh bugger!

Here's the thing. We debated this when the Flag to Flag was announced. Amongst riders who'd contested around PI and guys with years of race experience; A-Grade riders, ex500cc UK riders...and then crappy me.


Tyres did not match the conditions. Analogy is a race that started dry and went wet. Wet races not declared F2F are stopped. And restarted on suitable tyres.

.... TV rights, it should've been 2 separate legs. Less risk and clearer to riders/crew/people who can't count.. Not ideal but If Dorna/Race Direction/telly people think that's confusing, it's just contempt for their audience.

Sloth_27

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A disqualification doesn't neccessarily merit penalty points. You can get a black flag for a broken exhaust for example.

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Read a bit and connect the dots, is it really necessary that I repeat the logic here? Obviously getting a black flag for equipment malfunction wouldn't count.   The intent of the penalty points was to maintain a running and cumulative total of infractions for dangerous incidents so as to keep track of one's riding behavior and habits, specifically dangerous behavior.  Disregarding the specific obligation to swap tires because not doing so posed a specific and immediate danger to himself and other riders was in fact disregarded!  The DQ was for the immediate infraction, the penalty point system was supposed to keep a ledger for such infractions via additional points.  Basically by not adding an additional point, this system's intent has been circumvented.  Lets test the logic.  Lets say he continues to disregard specific obligations, how then is the penalty point system keeping a running total of these infractions as it pertains to dangerous behavior?  No, the DQ does not fulfill the intent of a cumulative running total.  This system is modeled after the common docking system we should all be familiar with, and really shouldn't pose any confusion to understand.  Let me put it another way, when you commit an infraction like a moving violation (I'm talking your drivers license).  You are issued a ticket with a fine, that is the penalty for the infraction.  On your license however an additional point is added so as to keep track of your driving habits.  That was the intent of the 'penalty point' system.  If another point is not added, the system is worthless (not that it had been applied with any consistency or adequacy in the first place.)  Given Race Direction's propensity to let Marc slide with ...., I fully expect the penalty point system to be conveniently forgotten.  Favoritism?  

You wouldn't last long in the ocean Jumkie.

Arrabbiata1

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These damn Spaniards, conspiring to ruin this series in cahoots with Repsol through blatant favouring and protection of riders like Pedrosa and Marqu...oh bugger!

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Welcome back sir. How was the Rising Sun 'junior' suite?  I know you are trying to disguise a poignant point wrapped in satire, but this was more about the unintended consequences of 'writing down the obligations and penalty' and publishing it.  They had very little wiggle room but to DQ for the failure to comply.  Had it been on the fly, I fully expect the sanction would have been more palatable to the machinates you refer to and attempt to mock.  You can bet your ..., they won't make this mistake again.  The following penalties will be "at Race Direction's discretion"


 


And I'll go one further, the fact they were willing to entertain gaming the rules is evidence that they believe and expect particular discrimination by the League.


 


I will volley your wit above with one similar:  >>  "just sayin"

Has anybody seen these rules that where passed around on paper? Kropo? As far as I understand it said not more than 10 laps. Assuming they mean complete laps, if you come in on lap 9 upon entry you have completed 8.9 laps. Lap 10 = 9.9 lap 10 = 10.9. That is not more than 10 complrte laps. As far as I'm concerned and obviously MM side of HRC they seen the same thing.

Sloth_27

3649481382426895

He rejoined safely in front of Pedrosa because they were nowhere near each other, not because he was being safe. You really think he would have backed if off if they had been racing each other to Turn 1?

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No where near?  Hahaha, yeah, I see your standard for near. It requires a collision.  Look again.


 
Sloth_27

3649481382426895

Also, how do you know every other rider re-entered the track safely?

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Because Marc is a dangerous ........    ...., if you are going to just ignore the meanings of words "near", then I guess I'm at liberty to do the same.


 


 


Mike, Dani's problem was not re-joing the race.  Look again buddy. The problem was entering pit lane. For which he got a penalty (a mild one if you ask me. Most of the time a pit lane infraction is met with a 'ride through penalty')

14X

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I've not seen the race yet, so I'm not commenting on 93/99

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That hasn't stopped people from offering ........ rationalizations and deflections of blame by those who "watched" the race.  Feel  free to chime in.  Watching the race and the opinions that ensue are not really connected around here.

the-insider

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Bravo sir, spot on. And lets not forget, this is only MMs first season.

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Ah yes, he has never attempted to leave a pit lane safely.  No wonder he mucked it up.


 


 


(the other "rookies" in the race must have accomplished the feat by mere magic.)

Jumkie

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No where near?  Hahaha, yeah, I see your standard for near. It requires a collision.  Look again.

 

 

Because Marc is a dangerous ........    ...., if you are going to just ignore the meanings of words "near", then I guess I'm at liberty to do the same.

 

 

Mike, Dani's problem was not re-joing the race.  Look again buddy. The problem was entering pit lane. For which he got a penalty (a mild one if you ask me. Most of the time a pit lane infraction is met with a 'ride through penalty')

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Jumkie, pedrosa received the penalty for crossing the white line on exit. Not as a pit lane speeding penalty

Dr No

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Anyone got any footage/links/photocopy/parchment of Lorenzo re-entering the race?


 


Geo?

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i'll check the DVD Rec


 


Dam things have kicked off Jum come up for a breath m8


Duc ..... Nicky Sacked. Nicky FS1E. Guna Gone. MM Cheating to the Title


Calm Down Dear,

you know ..... ...... up when jums chooses not to focus on blatant favoritism towards pedro

Geonerd

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<p style="margin-left:0px;font-size:12px;font-weight:bold;povol, on 21 Oct 2013 - 08:07, said:
povol

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<p style="margin-left:0px;To start with, they are nowhere near 170 mph at that point of the track, and second, Lorenzo has already taken responsibility for running wide. God you all are a bunch of ....... drama queens.
<p style="margin-left:0px; 
<p style="margin-left:0px;Ive never heard so much whining in my ....... life, 

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JL was going 250 KPH (155 MPH), compared to MM at 140 (87MPH) when they bounced.


 


170 was an honest guess.  The riders are zipping along at well over 200 (right?), brake briefly, then crank that mother in there and pray.


Call it 140, or 170, or 155 - it's still a HUGE corner, and no place to be in someone's way.

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Pov has made a forum career of cherry-picking minute points to attempt his side of debate, and this is just another example of his failure to be effective.  Hahaha.  I think you just ..... slapped Pov.  

Mr Squiggle

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.


 


The contact between Marquez and JLo was more a result of DORNAS "making rules up as you go along" mentality than rider error. 

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You haven't bled out yet?  Agree with you on Marc's .... up, but why the need to cast blame on Dorna for this incident?  Yeah, yeah, because Carmelo was riding Marc's bike.  No need to execute a task that has been done thousands of times safely, this one time it  was Dorna's fault because Marc ...... up.  PI should get an immediate penalty point for an unsafe track.  Design flaw.  Not to mention, Dorna should consider eliminating the round, 31K in attendance? Was that right?

Keshav

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Truly a rare thing that I disagree with you sir; but it's been pointed out with photographic evidence here in this very thread that he looked more than once.


And recall too, that this was not an endurance race. One second is an eternity in terms of MGP - much more so because of the shortened length of the race


which negated the possibility of MM's frequent MO of spending 90 % of the race nipping at the heels of the two front runners and then dramatically slipping


past them. Everybody was in sprint race mode.

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Ah, I see your logic now, everybody was in sprint mode, as opposed to all the other GP races that are called "sprints".  Marc was nipping at Lorenzo before for pit obligations.  All three riders were locked up in the battle, actually two tenth between the three of them at one point.  I'm stunned at your insistence to downplay Marc's culpability in the incident.  Marc .......  No .... up, no discussion.


 


You want visual evidence?  Take a looky.  Lorenzo here exiting pit lane, look to the straight you will see Pedro.  The next pic is them into the Doohan corner.  No collision.  


 


14821:JLO exiting pit.png]


14820:JLO safely rejoining.png]

Jumkie

3649581382429412

Mike, Dani's problem was not re-joing the race.  Look again buddy. The problem was entering pit lane. For which he got a penalty (a mild one if you ask me. Most of the time a pit lane infraction is met with a 'ride through penalty')

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Jums, whilst initial reports were it was a pit entry infringement, the official reasons given were a crossing of the blend line on pit exit.

Jumkie

3649691382431204

 

Ah, I see your logic now, everybody was in sprint mode, as opposed to all the other GP races that are called "sprints".  Marc was nipping at Lorenzo before for pit obligations.  All three riders were locked up in the battle, actually two tenth between the three of them at one point.  I'm stunned at your insistence to downplay Marc's culpability in the incident.  Marc .......  No .... up, no discussion.

 

You want visual evidence?  Take a looky.  Lorenzo here exiting pit lane, look to the straight you will see Pedro.  The next pic is them into the Doohan corner.  No collision.  

 
JLO exiting pit.png
JLO safely rejoining.png

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Why does the timing sheet have dp in front of jl in the second pic? Wheres the timing pick up point?

Jumkie

3649691382431204

Ah, I see your logic now, everybody was in sprint mode, as opposed to all the other GP races that are called "sprints".  Marc was nipping at Lorenzo before for pit obligations.  All three riders were locked up in the battle, actually two tenth between the three of them at one point.  I'm stunned at your insistence to downplay Marc's culpability in the incident.  Marc .......  No .... up, no discussion.


 


You want visual evidence?  Take a looky.  Lorenzo here exiting pit lane, look to the straight you will see Pedro.  The next pic is them into the Doohan corner.  No collision.  


 

JLO exiting pit.png

JLO safely rejoining.png

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Because Lorenzo was miles in front of Pedrosa, just like I said. But if Pedrosa had been closer, Lorenzo would have been racing him side by side, just like Marquez did to him.