Tissot Australian Grand Prix 2013
Help Support MotoGP Forum:
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2006
- Messages
- 3,075
- Location
- Living the dream in Scotland
michaelm
Great post as ever mate. My own thoughts at the time was that he was going for a Banzai lap to get to the front. He has got away with plenty recently, so took his chances with a penalty. Moving onto the racing line without the pace, and knowing Jorge was there was pretty desperate too. His lack of regard for other riders is unreal. There's lots to love bout Marky Mark, but there is a lot of things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm.
Great post as ever mate. My own thoughts at the time was that he was going for a Banzai lap to get to the front. He has got away with plenty recently, so took his chances with a penalty. Moving onto the racing line without the pace, and knowing Jorge was there was pretty desperate too. His lack of regard for other riders is unreal. There's lots to love bout Marky Mark, but there is a lot of things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2013
- Messages
- 250
Jumkie
If you think a 200 section Bridgestone is a fat ......, you aint lived buddy.
If you think a 200 section Bridgestone is a fat ......, you aint lived buddy.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
baturro
And neither was Marc, technically. When he blew the rule to pit after the limit, he was effectively disqualified and his position in the race no longer existed. It happens all the time. Have you ever seen a rider "leading" the race while not yet serving a penalty after a jump start? Is that rider actually "leading" the race given the infraction? Not at all. His position amongst the riders is deem null and void, as it was gained through illegal means! Its like cutting a chicane. Marc basically in affect became the lead rider by illegal means, not very different to cutting a chicane or jumping the start. This is why Kropo's weak ... apology/explanation for saying Marc was "technically" leading the race is ludicrous at best! Marc failed to follow the rules (just like any other ones imposed and expected to be followed) and in doing so it <u>appeared</u> that he was "leading" the race.
Why do you think Pedrosa was sanctioned with a penalty of having to drop down a position? Because technically he had committed an infraction. That is, while others are following the rules, the implication is that Pedrosa could gain an advantage by not following them. Even if he entered the pit .1 mph over the speed limit, it would not make a difference had he ran the pit 2 mph over the speed limit. It was an infraction, and to deter such illegal advantages, penalties are imposed. No different than when Marc failed to comply with the rules. The moment Marc failed to pit is the moment he gained an "illegal" advantage.
<span style="font-size:18px;You could say Marc is an "illegal alien".
And neither was Marc, technically. When he blew the rule to pit after the limit, he was effectively disqualified and his position in the race no longer existed. It happens all the time. Have you ever seen a rider "leading" the race while not yet serving a penalty after a jump start? Is that rider actually "leading" the race given the infraction? Not at all. His position amongst the riders is deem null and void, as it was gained through illegal means! Its like cutting a chicane. Marc basically in affect became the lead rider by illegal means, not very different to cutting a chicane or jumping the start. This is why Kropo's weak ... apology/explanation for saying Marc was "technically" leading the race is ludicrous at best! Marc failed to follow the rules (just like any other ones imposed and expected to be followed) and in doing so it <u>appeared</u> that he was "leading" the race.
Why do you think Pedrosa was sanctioned with a penalty of having to drop down a position? Because technically he had committed an infraction. That is, while others are following the rules, the implication is that Pedrosa could gain an advantage by not following them. Even if he entered the pit .1 mph over the speed limit, it would not make a difference had he ran the pit 2 mph over the speed limit. It was an infraction, and to deter such illegal advantages, penalties are imposed. No different than when Marc failed to comply with the rules. The moment Marc failed to pit is the moment he gained an "illegal" advantage.
<span style="font-size:18px;You could say Marc is an "illegal alien".
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 2,061
- Location
- home
basspete
Edit: Oh oh, this post might just cost me my AmA membership.
This is what really get´s me. The kid is fast enough, capable enough and on a great bike. Take away all the incidents that he has caused this season, and he would still absolutely have his competitors by the balls, at least for now. He doesn´t need to be this reckless to get what he wants at all.
Edit: Oh oh, this post might just cost me my AmA membership.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
Keshav
Nobody? You may need to look again man. The kid himself suggested contact tactics when he alluded to Jerez history. He said that was exactly what he remembered about this particular corner, so making contact was not out of the question for him before, and given this by his own admission, its likely he would employ similar tactics again. Not only that, but again an actual collision did in FACT occur! Povol suggested that he made a calculated lunge at Aragon given the similar "run off" space as previously in Jerez, the point being that he was willing to take an additional risk. Did he intend to brush up against Pedro, actually we don't know for certain do we? But again, he alluded to the contact that was used before to gain advantage in another event, why would it be a stretch for him to have calculated in a split second to employ similar tactic?
Either way, he was technically no longer leading the race and should have conceded the position...and waited for the black flag behind Lorenzo and Pedrosa (that surely was going to come once he worked out the math, math that he should have worked out during the illegal lap he took around the circuit.)
Nobody? You may need to look again man. The kid himself suggested contact tactics when he alluded to Jerez history. He said that was exactly what he remembered about this particular corner, so making contact was not out of the question for him before, and given this by his own admission, its likely he would employ similar tactics again. Not only that, but again an actual collision did in FACT occur! Povol suggested that he made a calculated lunge at Aragon given the similar "run off" space as previously in Jerez, the point being that he was willing to take an additional risk. Did he intend to brush up against Pedro, actually we don't know for certain do we? But again, he alluded to the contact that was used before to gain advantage in another event, why would it be a stretch for him to have calculated in a split second to employ similar tactic?
Either way, he was technically no longer leading the race and should have conceded the position...and waited for the black flag behind Lorenzo and Pedrosa (that surely was going to come once he worked out the math, math that he should have worked out during the illegal lap he took around the circuit.)
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2013
- Messages
- 342
- Location
- Louisiana, USA
MdubSTYLIE
Funny because it's literally true. no more CRT class means Aleix really is the greatest CRT rider of all time. But I'm looking forward to next season's Aleix-Hayden duels. With Espargaro on an M1 and Nicky on the Honda, it'll be like a .......ized copy of what's happening at the front of the grid.
Funny because it's literally true. no more CRT class means Aleix really is the greatest CRT rider of all time. But I'm looking forward to next season's Aleix-Hayden duels. With Espargaro on an M1 and Nicky on the Honda, it'll be like a .......ized copy of what's happening at the front of the grid.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2013
- Messages
- 342
- Location
- Louisiana, USA
Jumkie
Intriguing. What symptoms, exactly?
Intriguing. What symptoms, exactly?
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 3,451
- Location
- The North!
stiefel
I agree FWIW I dont hate MM for his nationality, and I happen to think he could be one of the greatest racers of the next era.
He sure has a remarkable talent!
The AmA is about how he does his business and how favouritism is corrupting the sport.
If he went about his business in a proper manor there would be no AmA and even I would probs like him.
As it is, Haters gonna hate
I agree FWIW I dont hate MM for his nationality, and I happen to think he could be one of the greatest racers of the next era.
He sure has a remarkable talent!
The AmA is about how he does his business and how favouritism is corrupting the sport.
If he went about his business in a proper manor there would be no AmA and even I would probs like him.
As it is, Haters gonna hate
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2013
- Messages
- 250
rezonator636
I cant wait to hear this.
I cant wait to hear this.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 3,451
- Location
- The North!
Jumkie
I'm still going with the eyes out of focus, tunnel vision, what ever the fcuk happens when he gets up to speed,
I'm still going with the eyes out of focus, tunnel vision, what ever the fcuk happens when he gets up to speed,
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2009
- Messages
- 3,155
- Location
- siebenbürgen süße heimat!
i'm still going with he's just a total ....... psycho with little to no regard for human life. you can't talk everything down by saying "he isn't aware of his competition". what in the .... is that supposed to mean anyways?
.... ain't that hard.
it really seems colin stoner and nurhayat sofuoglu had a ....... child together.
.... ain't that hard.
it really seems colin stoner and nurhayat sofuoglu had a ....... child together.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
Jumkie
No yer getting into sophist territory. If he knew in advance he'd be black flagged - I don't imagine he'd have gone back out. If the crew chief had a 2nd bike waiting for him with the engine started and sent him down pit lane, you have to know he trusted that he was doing the right thing. He may be young and wild - but he's clearly confident enough in his abilities to know that while it might be nice to clinch the championship at Philip Island - that he has the talent and the bike to finish the job over the course of the last two rounds.
No yer getting into sophist territory. If he knew in advance he'd be black flagged - I don't imagine he'd have gone back out. If the crew chief had a 2nd bike waiting for him with the engine started and sent him down pit lane, you have to know he trusted that he was doing the right thing. He may be young and wild - but he's clearly confident enough in his abilities to know that while it might be nice to clinch the championship at Philip Island - that he has the talent and the bike to finish the job over the course of the last two rounds.
Geonerd
Geo,
I do notice several things and as per the video I posted you get to see the aerial shot as well that highlights things quite well.
1. Yes, Lorenzo's line is wider and that contributed to the collision (ffs - even Lorenzo says this) and the sheer fact is that no matter where MM was on the track at that time, Lorenzo was NOT where he would usually be. FWIW I suggest you watch the full video if possible and you will see that whilst (as you say) no rider is inch perfect Lorenzo comes pretty damn close through that turn with his only real variation being on entry to T2.
2. Actually there is a very clear pic of him looking back whilst in pit lane, but as you say once in the 'unlimited' section he does not look back, but should he have to? BTW please show me where I have stated that he had an ideo of what or who was coming on track as I have not stated it anywhere (but having been to PI I will state now that the drop down the hill on the exit does have blind spots).
And Geo, if I am insane enough to read Krops ramblings than dare I suggest that I am saner than many as whilst his may be ramblings to some, to others they are insightful and quite factual or at least comprehending reality. As for Lurching into traffic 40mph does not constitute reentering a race may I ask how he is to re-enter given that one must accelerate from a slow speed to a faster speed and will, at some point due to the design of the PI circuit be significantly slower than traffic
FWIW and by comparison during one of the earlier lower class practice sessions (Moto3 from memory) there was a rider who re-entered from teh pits and rode the left edge of teh circuit, just as many are surmising that MM should have done. This rider was actually forced onto the grass by a faster rider which then placed the slower rider on a direct collision course for T2 (something that does happen from time to time at PI).
Geo,
I do notice several things and as per the video I posted you get to see the aerial shot as well that highlights things quite well.
1. Yes, Lorenzo's line is wider and that contributed to the collision (ffs - even Lorenzo says this) and the sheer fact is that no matter where MM was on the track at that time, Lorenzo was NOT where he would usually be. FWIW I suggest you watch the full video if possible and you will see that whilst (as you say) no rider is inch perfect Lorenzo comes pretty damn close through that turn with his only real variation being on entry to T2.
2. Actually there is a very clear pic of him looking back whilst in pit lane, but as you say once in the 'unlimited' section he does not look back, but should he have to? BTW please show me where I have stated that he had an ideo of what or who was coming on track as I have not stated it anywhere (but having been to PI I will state now that the drop down the hill on the exit does have blind spots).
And Geo, if I am insane enough to read Krops ramblings than dare I suggest that I am saner than many as whilst his may be ramblings to some, to others they are insightful and quite factual or at least comprehending reality. As for Lurching into traffic 40mph does not constitute reentering a race may I ask how he is to re-enter given that one must accelerate from a slow speed to a faster speed and will, at some point due to the design of the PI circuit be significantly slower than traffic
FWIW and by comparison during one of the earlier lower class practice sessions (Moto3 from memory) there was a rider who re-entered from teh pits and rode the left edge of teh circuit, just as many are surmising that MM should have done. This rider was actually forced onto the grass by a faster rider which then placed the slower rider on a direct collision course for T2 (something that does happen from time to time at PI).
Jumkie
Jums, nowhere do I try to exonerate MM just as I do not blame JL for the incident but I am interested in teh need of some to declare capital punishment on Marquez for a perceived crime against humanity when an incident that was truly abominable occurred on Saturday and is NOT being discussed.
As I said elsewhere, if Saturday's incident saw no penalty than (Willarot incident aside) MM should never have been penalised for any incident, issue or outcome ..... simple
Again if you get the chance, view the Saturday incident between Hernandez and Espargaro for a real crime on a race track
IMO, what MM did was not a deliberate 'I am going there so JL hits me' but what occurred on Saturday, well another story
Jums, nowhere do I try to exonerate MM just as I do not blame JL for the incident but I am interested in teh need of some to declare capital punishment on Marquez for a perceived crime against humanity when an incident that was truly abominable occurred on Saturday and is NOT being discussed.
As I said elsewhere, if Saturday's incident saw no penalty than (Willarot incident aside) MM should never have been penalised for any incident, issue or outcome ..... simple
Again if you get the chance, view the Saturday incident between Hernandez and Espargaro for a real crime on a race track
IMO, what MM did was not a deliberate 'I am going there so JL hits me' but what occurred on Saturday, well another story
