Tissot Australian Grand Prix 2013

Keshav · Oct 21, 2013

kiddyK

3647111382329379

.... outta luck there, pal. Stop walking into countries and shooting the place up and we'll stop telling you what a bunch of imperialist aggressors you are.

And FFS, tell your women that .... implants aren't fooling anyone.

An oblique reference to the introduction of some of Jum's alleged sock puppets?

BarryMachine · Oct 21, 2013

the-insider

3647921382357101

Just re watched the after race interviews, and Jorge blames himself for the contact with Marquez, he says he made a mistake in braking and it made him run wide.

Thats how I see it. Racing incident ........ except in mexico ......... where its a murderous coup attempt.

Lyria · Oct 21, 2013

Well whatever happened and whoever was to blame, it's made for plenty of debate on here at least.

A bad day for MM and Honda, a good day for those who want to see the championship last a bit longer. If Marquez fails to be champion this year I think this race is going to haunt him for a very long time.

Geonerd · Oct 21, 2013

Pigeon

3647671382348931

MM Got ...... up

there was pit crew Confusion the riders coming onto the front straight crossing the finish line "11 laps to go on the TV screen"

got these pit boards #99 1 lap / #93 2 lap

A good find Indeed!

Yet it appears that the other half of MarcMurder's® team had the tire warmers off and were expecting him to pit with JL.

"What? You need help with Marc's pit signalling?"

"Sure, I'll be happy to help!"

14817:HappyToHelp.jpg]

Keshav · Oct 21, 2013

Gaz

3647511382344907

But Jums, technically and yes I do mean technically when Marquez rejoined the track he was in front of Lorenzo and thus leading the race .

Yes, Krop does throw a spin but technically he is correct, or was for around 100 metres of course .

So whilst it may be scene as fantasy Marquez did and had led across the line on that lap

And no, I am not passing judgement on the article or any other issue surrounding the re-entry with this statement, but Krop is 100% correct in saying that MM was leading. What I do not agree with is that he has no responsibility for what is behind if Krop means that as the leader MM has impunity in regards to what he does.

Edit. Jumkie, according to teh MotoGP website MM led laps 10 and 11 (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2013/AUS/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf?v1_6204c016) thus Krop is correct that he was leading

Yeah... that's the ticket. It was nothing more than a slick block pass.

rezonator636 · Oct 21, 2013

Keshav

3647941382357450

"As it was, a piece of paper was handed out - one among many in a garage

at any time, with time schedules, tire selection sheets, gearing charts,

timing charts, official notices and a million other sheets of A4

floating around - on which was written the rules, and the penalty for

disobeying the rules." (From MotoMatters)

If this is accurate, it would go a long way towards explaining discrepenacies

between the comprehension of the rule by different teams and their riders.

Just want to point out, I didn't actually think Honda was gaming the system, I was just playing the "what if" game. Personally, I thought (and I think the pit boards pictured above confirmed), that MM's team made a mistake, pure and simple.

If what you highlighted really happened, then shame on RD, Dorna, and whoever else is responsible for this clusterfuck, for not having a rider's meeting so that everyone gets the same explanation of the revised rules at the same time. Krop says in that article that getting all the riders together in one place is like "herding cats", which is why they decided to put the rule changes out on paper instead and had them delivered to the teams. Well, that's not good enough, in my opinion. You hold the meeting, make it clear that important rule changes are being put out, and if teams are too dumb to show up, fine. Let those teams look like idiots on international television instead of the whole show coming off as a farce.

SuperManatee · Oct 21, 2013

Jumkie

3647641382348298

Thanks for highlighting the video. It clearly shows the team had expected Marc to come in and the ensuing dismay that Marc screwed up. I doesn't dispel anything, as there is video from the race feed where Marc is talking to somebody and is clearly displaying a jovial attitude just moments after he returned into the garage from the back. That video you linked is a highlights, that means there are parts missing in between. I clearly saw him smiling. In fact, Nick Harris, the commentator says, well it doesn't like like he is too bothered.

Agree, Nakamoto will never make it in Hollywood. Nothing about his protest seemed convincing. But the dismay on the faces when Marc goes past ignoring the obligation to pit was priceless.

Good night gentz.

I agree with-your take on the incident but Im not sure why you quickly discount my theory that hes not very smart. It seems to be the general opinion that because hes a racer and because hes popular then he must be intelligent and hes only making mistakes because hes young and impetuous.

This is not some kid who has been pulled off the street yesterday . , hes been living in a structured paddock half of his life. If you had a coworker with 10 years experience behind his belt and continued to .... up you would certainly label him as not very smart. If I had 15 posts on here and 5 of them were asinine (plus another score of stupid posts in the moto 2and 3 threads)I would immediatelly labeled a moron. ( as undoubtedly I will because I am in the minority despite overwhelming examples)

You and others have said he looks genuinely surprised when told that what he did was wrong despite being told this every single year.

You just said that his own team looked baffled when he didnt pit

The writing is on the wall, Spelled out in blood red paint. Im the only one reading it. REDRUM

povol · Oct 21, 2013

Geonerd

3647951382357994

He should be penalized for unsafely merging with hot traffic.

Please go back and review the video I posted on pager 17.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/60092457/MotoGP/NoLook.mp4

You will notice several things:

1. Yes, Lorenzo's line through the corner is about two feet wider than Dani's. FFS, even these guys aren't inch perfect when barreling into a 170MPH corner. This is utterly irrelevant. If anything, MarcMurder® should be thankful it was only two feet.

2. As MarcMurder® cleared the pit lane exit and drove onto the track, he NEVER looked back to assess the track situation. C'mon, are you really going to argue that a quick glance 5 seconds earlier gave MarcMurder® enough information to divine the exact location of the other bikes 5 seconds later? No. No and No. Face it, he had no ....... idea what was coming down the track. Despite this, and despite his grossly slower pace, MarcMurder® deliberately drove directly onto the racing line, causing a collision. This is reckless and stupid in the extreme. If JL or DP were going at it, or had gotten out of shape on corner entry, and had arrived further off course (something they are fully entitled to do, given that THEY are the ones on the racetrack at the time!) MarcMurder® would have become Seagull Pot Pie.

Dude (and anyone insane enough to parrot Kroppo's mad ravings), the other riders were not 'passing' because MarcMurder® had not yet re-joined the track! Lurching into traffic going 40 MPH slower does not constitute re-joining the race!

To start with, they are nowhere near 170 mph at that point of the track, and second, Lorenzo has already taken responsibility for running wide. God you all are a bunch of ....... drama queens.

Ive never heard so much whining in my ....... life,

lil red rocket pilot · Oct 21, 2013

Jumkie

3647391382343287

I'm also gonna go on record as saying, I honestly think there may be something wrong with Marc's eyesight. He injured his eyesight and I remember being concerned that this promising kid had ruined his career before it took off. I wonder if something has been permanently damaged affecting his depth perception. I'm not being funny nor sarcastic. He was injured and then when the season started he was cleared. Riders race all the time with minor injuries, sometimes major ones as well. Certainly a 'blind spot' may be more difficult to detect, if not cover up. (Sorry, I'm a cynical ......., but I know these competitors would eat their own children to compete at the highest levels).

I have been thinking this for some time, It obviously is not evident whilst sat in a chair reading off a board in the opticians or he would not be racing.

But at 1-200kpm I think he may have some sort of focus or perception of depth problem.

I have mentioned this in other places and a few have sort of agreed it could explain all these near misses he seems to so frequently have.

I didn't want to be the first to mention it here because been a hater I wanted at least a few to think about it.

I also have another question.

If a rider picks up a black flag during a race does he get any points on his license?

stiefel · Oct 21, 2013

povol

3648041382367619

To start with, they are nowhere near 170 mph at that point of the track, and second, Lorenzo has already taken responsibility for running wide. God you all are a bunch of ....... drama queens.

Ive never heard so much whining in my ....... life,

Lorenzo taking responsibility for running wide is pretty irrelevant. You can hardly fault him for running wide. You can blame Marquez for damn near causing a serious crash by moving into the racing line when 1) he shouldn't have been there on that lap in the first place 2) consequently being there when Lorenzo would have not have expected him 3) either recklessly trying to race Lorenzo for position on cold tires with a huge speed differential when he should be fully aware that Lorenzo would have no chance to take evasive action once committed to that corner 4) or being a dangerous fool for not realizing he was moving straight into the path of a much faster Lorenzo and Pedrosa.

baturro · Oct 21, 2013

I didn't watch the race. Probably won't. Living in Minn has it's disadvantages, and there's other exciting things to do. Reading what took place, it looks like things went from bad too worse. Last minute decisions for the show to go on left the local spectators with a turd of a show. If this screw up would have happened in Aragon I would have left and gone riding for the weekend. The ...... race was not caused by "acts of God," such as storms and hurricanes. It was caused by negligent tire manufacturer, greedy promoters and ball-less race direction.

None of the riders have ever had to race in circumstances like Sundays. And the rookies of GP have never done a mid race bike swap for any reason. The veterans have all done so in a wet/dry race. These unknowns add to the possibility of mistakes. An unknown such as what happened between JL and MM upon MM's reentry.

What happened between MM and JL at reentry was essentially F1 on 2 wheels. The rider in the pit was in first place and as soon as he got on track, it would be the second place riders choice and responsibility to overtake the P1 rider. In F1, this exact tactic is seen at every race. A car will accelerate to purposely disturb the following car forcing him to get "stuck" behind the newly incorporated car. All of the F1 guys are used to this and are all culprits of this move.

In GP we have never seen this happen because there isn't supposed to be bike swaps in GP, except for the rain exception. And in the rain scenario all the riders are already tiptoeing around the track at the swap time due to the track conditions. This time it was a dry/dry with slicks.

Could MM have allowed JL and DP to go past him and then incorporate? Sure, but that is not what happens in F1 races. What Bridgestone/Dorna/Direction did this past weekend was turn GP into 2 wheeled F1 and Dorna/Direction without considering the worst case scenarios.

shovelhead · Oct 21, 2013

Pedrosa's tire must have been in bad shape,

They were quick to put the tire warmer on in parc ferme

First time I seen a bike with the rear warmer on in parc ferme

stiefel · Oct 21, 2013

baturro

3648071382368707

What happened between MM and JL at reentry was essentially F1 on 2 wheels. The rider in the pit was in first place and as soon as he got on track, it would be the second place riders choice and responsibility to overtake the P1 rider. In F1, this exact tactic is seen at every race. A car will accelerate to purposely disturb the following car forcing him to get "stuck" behind the newly incorporated car. All of the F1 guys are used to this and are all culprits of this move.

The difference being that an F1 driver can react by hitting the brake and taking evasive action and at worst, will suffer some broken carbon fiber.

baturro · Oct 21, 2013

I perfectly know and understand this. Dorna/Race Direction didn't realized that this scenario was a possibility when you turn GP in to F1.

JohnnyKnockdown · Oct 21, 2013

povol

3648041382367619

To start with, they are nowhere near 170 mph at that point of the track, and second, Lorenzo has already taken responsibility for running wide. God you all are a bunch of ....... drama queens.

Ive never heard so much whining in my ....... life,

there was a lot of whining and crying at Sics funeral as well

stiefel · Oct 21, 2013

baturro

3648121382369416

I perfectly know and understand this. Dorna/Race Direction didn't realized that this scenario was a possibility when you turn GP in to F1.

I don't even want to know what (complete and utter lack) of thinking went on there. They should have been perfectly able to anticipate exactly this type of situation but apparantly have made no effort whatsoever to prepare to riders for it. You'd think they'd sit them apart in a rider briefing and spell out exactly when and how to leave an re-enter the track. I'm honestly torn between thinking that race direction (and everybody else that has major influence in these decisions, i.e. dorna) are really, really dumb or willfully negligent. In either case, they should not be running this show.

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

Gaz

3647651382348691

Reiterating it because I want to basically .

As for calling Krop out, I have just read the full article on Krops site and it is reasoned and absolutely correct in that it is the responsibility of the passing rider when teh track is live and all are on the same lap.

Once Marquez pitted, it became his responsibility to merge without incident. Kropo's logic is insane. This means then that when a rider pits during practice, because he is "technically ahead" on the track he no longer has to worry about entering the track safely. WRONG. I say again, once Marc pitted, it became his sole responsibility to exit without incident, his track position was trumped by the explicit responsibility to re-join safely. Kropo is wrong, and if you agree with him, you boys using miss-using track position as a false technicality to trump the immediate responsibility tasked to the rider exiting the pit.

Again, in practice, the rider leaving the pit would be technically ahead, this is why the track position is no longer relevant, as the rider leaving the pit, while physically ahead on the track relative to other riders must still re-join safely.

By the way Jums, why the focus on Marc as being to blame for the stuff up when his team admit to stuffing it up by pushing the rules and failing to read one aspect?

Well sir, because you, Kropo, and many others are trying to exonerate Marc. You can go back and read my posts here, I said regardless who's to blame for the snafu, rejoining the track was dangerous. The attempt to downplay this incident by blaming it on: insert something here (blame Bstone, blame Dorna, Blame the pit lane, blame the team, blame a false technicality of track position right, blame the seagulls) STILL does not vindicate the acute responsibility to merge on a hot track safely. This simply was not done, and its another additional episode in a long list of incidents that have been risky to him and others. It will most likely go unpunished.

Gaz

3647651382348691

And Jums, with regards to the balls comment, having been married for 25+ years I handed mine in a bloody long time ago

:lol:

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

Keshav

3647791382353637

Exactly so. All any of us can do is speculate which of the two are true and state what our gut tells us.

Speculate which is true has an element of likelihood. Given Marc's well document history of ignoring safety parameters, our odds are in favor of concluding it was another episode of calculatingly forcing the issue, safety be damn. You are attempting to make the case the opposite is true, that against the historical propensity for dangerous behavior, he was <u>likely</u> (as you are neither a mind reader) 'intending' to be safe. Given RD's insistence on letting such episodes go, given spectator indifference (as you are expressing in the thread) further encourages such a 'blind eye' to said tactics.

Keshav, on 21 Oct 2013 - 05:17, said:
"As it was, a piece of paper was handed out - one among many in a garage
at any time, with time schedules, tire selection sheets, gearing charts,
timing charts, official notices and a million other sheets of A4
floating around - on which was written the rules, and the penalty for
disobeying the rules." (From MotoMatters)

If this is accurate, it would go a long way towards explaining discrepenacies
between the comprehension of the rule by different teams and their riders.

Ah I see, it was just a piece of paper, one among many, no big deal, I can see why it was confusing, eh, please tell me you are kidding in highlighting Kropo's weak ... attempt to explain why this might have been confusing. Hahaha, Kesh, WTF, normally you would be pouncing such an insane attempt at downplaying this weak ... apology. I see, 'here you go guys, this is the official document for the unique format of the race'. 'Oh, thanks, go ahead and put it under the 'list of tire temps' for FP2 date sheet. I'll get to it later'.

WTF Kesh? Now its an reasonable explanation that one of the most important documents of the event was misplaced among all the other tasks? Uhm, misplacing the cafeteria hours is a reasonable mistake. Forgetting to put in the axel hub bolt because, as your logic goes, there were so many other bolts laying around [one among man in a garage] is ....... ........ at best!

the-insider · Oct 21, 2013

baturro

3648071382368707

I didn't watch the race. Probably won't. Living in Minn has it's disadvantages, and there's other exciting things to do. Reading what took place, it looks like things went from bad too worse. Last minute decisions for the show to go on left the local spectators with a turd of a show. If this screw up would have happened in Aragon I would have left and gone riding for the weekend. The ...... race was not caused by "acts of God," such as storms and hurricanes. It was caused by negligent tire manufacturer, greedy promoters and ball-less race direction.

None of the riders have ever had to race in circumstances like Sundays. And the rookies of GP have never done a mid race bike swap for any reason. The veterans have all done so in a wet/dry race. These unknowns add to the possibility of mistakes. An unknown such as what happened between JL and MM upon MM's reentry.

What happened between MM and JL at reentry was essentially F1 on 2 wheels. The rider in the pit was in first place and as soon as he got on track, it would be the second place riders choice and responsibility to overtake the P1 rider. In F1, this exact tactic is seen at every race. A car will accelerate to purposely disturb the following car forcing him to get "stuck" behind the newly incorporated car. All of the F1 guys are used to this and are all culprits of this move.

In GP we have never seen this happen because there isn't supposed to be bike swaps in GP, except for the rain exception. And in the rain scenario all the riders are already tiptoeing around the track at the swap time due to the track conditions. This time it was a dry/dry with slicks.

Could MM have allowed JL and DP to go past him and then incorporate? Sure, but that is not what happens in F1 races. What Bridgestone/Dorna/Direction did this past weekend was turn GP into 2 wheeled F1 and Dorna/Direction without considering the worst case scenarios.

Completely agree, as I said earlier, you cant change the rules on the day, all aspects of safety have to be considered and they co obviously were not, my take is that this is Bridgestone's problem full stop, looking at MMs tyre after 10 laps and the quick hiding of DPs in park ferme, they must have been in very poor shape, we would be talking about a totally different scenario if one had let go at 200 mph.

shovelhead · Oct 21, 2013

the-insider

3648191382371715

Completely agree, as I said earlier, you cant change the rules on the day, all aspects of safety have to be considered and they co obviously were not, my take is that this is Bridgestone's problem full stop, looking at MMs tyre after 10 laps and the quick hiding of DPs in park ferme, they must have been in very poor shape, we would be talking about a totally different scenario if one had let go at 200 mph.

Imagine this scenario:

10 laps in, Rider in the lead, tire explodes, rider crashes, Red flag,

Positions at the last completed lap declares the winner,

but the winner died in the crash.

That would be ...... up

Tissot Australian Grand Prix 2013

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