Tissot Australian Grand Prix 2013

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

SuperManatee

3646221382304344

.

How can you say Pedrosas team figured it but Marquezs didnt. They are on the same team.

Im saying Marquez was too stupid to figure out to come in despite the 2 guys racing alongside him, the multiple pit boards saying come in, the chunked tire screaming "no mas....no mas!!, and the common sense meter pinging redline.

The kid has made major gaffs probabaly 30% of the time hes raced this year. Its a pattern of idiocy that can only be explained by someone with a low IQ

Great point. Pedro's side of the garage figured it out, Marc's didn't? Seems unlikely. God knows what happened, but if I had to guess, Marc maybe tested the resolve of RD. This time it was too obvious. Even RD had to go with what they had put in black and white. Agree wit this post, except I think Marc is not a moron (I may be wrong).

I'm also gonna go on record as saying, I honestly think there may be something wrong with Marc's eyesight. He injured his eyesight and I remember being concerned that this promising kid had ruined his career before it took off. I wonder if something has been permanently damaged affecting his depth perception. I'm not being funny nor sarcastic. He was injured and then when the season started he was cleared. Riders race all the time with minor injuries, sometimes major ones as well. Certainly a 'blind spot' may be more difficult to detect, if not cover up. (Sorry, I'm a cynical ......., but I know these competitors would eat their own children to compete at the highest levels).

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

chopperman

3646231382304656

But who is to say they were both told of this rule at the same time, or even by the same person.

Well compa, I'll assume they were at very least given a copy of the same sheet of paper.

Sloth_27 · Oct 21, 2013

Just to throw another ...... into the mix - it turns out the black flag shown to Cudlin was actually a mistake. Race Direction brought him in after the race to apologise. No word on how they managed to screw that up.

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

SuperManatee

3646311382307025

. Also there is no evidence that equates intelligence to championships. Talent most always rules out

I'm not agreeing with you, but I'd like to point out Sic won a championship, and Kropo reported (for which he concurred) that many in the paddock thought the Italian was a dense ........

I also take issue with you calling Nicky a country bumkin and suggesting he is stupid. Not all Southerners are a dumb as Povol.

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

Gaz

3646421382310452

You are the one that is incorrect Super as has been pointedo ut by myself and others, two other riders and teams also could not work it out (Cudlin and Staring) and also were dq'd for exceeding the 10 lap rule

Chopperman said:

I agree , but even though you don't like him he still deserves a fair trial in our kangaroo court.

Cudlin and Staring are Australian. SuperMantee may have a point about lower IQs. Right Rog?

....I'll get my coat.

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

alexchristian

3646521382311526

Seeing as most major racing series have had a tire controversy within the last few years i dont think thats as big a disaster as everyone thinks...its unfortunate surely butbthe organizers did what was necessary to ensure the riders' safety and give us as good a show as possible...i was excited for the race as always but even more so because of the pit stops.

As for 93.. honda had to know when both their guys were coming in and what alternate strategies were available to them depending on circumstances...i doubt very much this was a hrc problem...just them trying to cover up their golden boy's ........

I thought his exit from pit lane onto the track was ........ and unsafe but nothing will come of it which is unfortunate. I understand why people like him and that he's exciting and impetuous but i think he's on the razor's edge too much.

100%!

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

Tekniqs

3646531382311553

from Kropo "<span style="background-color:rgb(204,204,204);color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Grande', 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:1.3em;But he is racing, and leading the race. He is not responsible for what is behind him at that point."

Kropo stating that Marquez had already past the white lines of pit lane and had rejoined the race IN THE LEAD...so he isn't responsible for what's behind him at that point...what a load of ..... Yes he is technically correct, but ...., please engage your brain first and realize the massive speed discrepancy at that point in the track between someone coming into doohan corner and one exiting pit lane. Gotta be smart about this, the collision could have ended tragically for both riders involved.

Kropo has lost his ....... mind! Sorry Kropo if you read this, but you have lost it dude. I had been waiting for Kropo to spin this, as I knew it would be packed full of enjoyable reading. In other news, the moon is made of cheese.

the-insider · Oct 21, 2013

Jumkie, I tried to answer a post of yours but I have no idea where it has gone, my view for what its worth is, Bridgestone caused the whole pile of ...., we can argue the toss about what happened during the race for ever, and this forum shows that there are many takes on why Marquez did what he did, for me none of this would have happened if Bridgestone had done the R&D on the new track surface. You are obviously a very sharp guy, but I don't know why Marquez hit Jorge, so it is pointless for me to argue, when I said he would get all the flack, I meant people would not have a look at the root cause of the .... up (the dangerous tyre) but would concentrate on the contact made.

Gaz · Oct 21, 2013

Jumkie

3647491382344395

Kropo has lost his ....... mind! Sorry Kropo if you read this, but you have lost it dude. I had been waiting for Kropo to spin this, as I knew it would be packed full of enjoyable reading. In other news, the moon is made of cheese.

But Jums, technically and yes I do mean technically when Marquez rejoined the track he was in front of Lorenzo and thus leading the race .

Yes, Krop does throw a spin but technically he is correct, or was for around 100 metres of course .

So whilst it may be scene as fantasy Marquez did and had led across the line on that lap

And no, I am not passing judgement on the article or any other issue surrounding the re-entry with this statement, but Krop is 100% correct in saying that MM was leading. What I do not agree with is that he has no responsibility for what is behind if Krop means that as the leader MM has impunity in regards to what he does.

Edit. Jumkie, according to teh MotoGP website MM led laps 10 and 11 (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2013/AUS/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf?v1_6204c016) thus Krop is correct that he was leading

BarryMachine · Oct 21, 2013

Jumkie ....... you are a fruitcake.

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

rezonator636

3646861382319970

What I found interesting in the write-up is the assertion that Honda knew they were pushing the rules by keeping Marc out for an extra lap, but did so anyway, thinking they could game the system. If that's true, it reveals in HRC either incredible arrogance (very likely) or extreme idiocy (not as likely, but still possible). You would think that Honda would cross every T and dot every I this close to winning a championship, but if they intentionally played with safety rules like this, it shows the extent to which they think they control MotoGP.

Lets face it, RD has been overwhelmingly soft on MM. It was a calculated gamble (if we are to believe this is what happened). I personally don't think this way HRC but rather MM and his team. They clearly didn't give a flying ...., and MM's pit lane exit and subsequent collision with Lorenzo for me is proof positive.

stiefel · Oct 21, 2013

the-insider

3647501382344617

Jumkie, I tried to answer a post of yours but I have no idea where it has gone, my view for what its worth is, Bridgestone caused the whole pile of ...., we can argue the toss about what happened during the race for ever, and this forum shows that there are many takes on why Marquez did what he did, for me none of this would have happened if Bridgestone had done the R&D on the new track surface. You are obviously a very sharp guy, but I don't know why Marquez hit Jorge, so it is pointless for me to argue, when I said he would get all the flack, I meant people would not have a look at the root cause of the .... up (the dangerous tyre) but would concentrate on the contact made.

1) What events have led to the race being run the way it was and 2) who, if anyone, is to blame for the Lorenzo and Marquez incident are two indepedent questions.

I agree with you to some extend regarding your take on question 1), although I do not agree with laying the blame entirely on Bridgestone, but I would also argue that question 1) has no relevance at all for question 2).

Gaz · Oct 21, 2013

Jumkie

3647531382345196

Lets face it, RD has been overwhelmingly soft on MM. It was a calculated gamble (if we are to believe this is what happened). I personally don't think this way HRC but rather MM and his team. They clearly didn't give a flying ...., and MM's pit lane exit and subsequent collision with Lorenzo for me is proof positive.

Have they or is that your opinion?

He is the MOST penalised rider in terms of penalty points for 2013 across all 3 categories and the only rider currently at risk of a rear of grid start.

Yes he did make mistakes in the past and for mine got away with a feather slap for what should have happened with the Willarot incident a few years back, but to say that they are overwhelmingly soft I do not agree with at all and as people know, I have a hard ....... when it comes to penalties for riders.

Now Jums, I have asked before (not you) but will ask directly.

Did you see the practice incident between Hernandez and Espargaro?

IMO, it was far worse than anything else I have seen this year if you get the chance, get a video and watch (seriously, was blatant and dangerous and yet no published penalty so far)

the-insider · Oct 21, 2013

Gaz

3647551382345628

Have they or is that your opinion?

He is the MOST penalised rider in terms of penalty points for 2013 across all 3 categories and the only rider currently at risk of a rear of grid start.

Yes he did make mistakes in the past and for mine got away with a feather slap for what should have happened with the Willarot incident a few years back, but to say that they are overwhelmingly soft I do not agree with at all and as people know, I have a hard ....... when it comes to penalties for riders.

Now Jums, I have asked before (not you) but will ask directly.

Did you see the practice incident between Hernandez and Espargaro?

IMO, it was far worse than anything else I have seen this year if you get the chance, get a video and watch (seriously, was blatant and dangerous and yet no published penalty so far)

Agreed, the practice incident was deliberate and very dangerous, and as you say, no penalty given.

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

Dr No

3646881382321325

The 19 lapper was making the best of a ludricrous and embarrassing situation. The Moto2 situation was worse. Australian SuperDuperBikes run Dunlops...they really got caught out.

Sorry, Lex, but my belief, regardless of Marquez and HRC's pronouncements, is that Marquez made a stupid mistake. Brain fade. There was no advantage to continue on that tyre, it was already playing up when Lorenzo pitted. He should/could have followed Jorge in, performed an "elegant, efficient and imaginative" pirouette-bike-change and beaten him out of the pits.

BTW I watched that lap from the inside of MG, from which you can see the pit-entry, when we saw Marquez continuing through T12, we just laughed. We picked it there and then. Marquez ...... up.

The Marquez scuff up was no big deal? There's not much scope to change lines through T1, you roll in there pretty hot. Sphincter pucker corner (for me...) Lorenzo was on a racing line. Marquez was on a rejoin-the-race line. That could've been very, very messy. And if it is "50/50", just think of this: Who was in a better position to avoid contact?

But the main culprit (which kinda contradicts my earlier statement on the 19-lapper) is the foolishness of allowing cold bikes to re-enter the track from the PI pit lane. It's a goat-track of asphalt that puts you into T1. Great idea.

Good post, but I want to bring more attention to the highlighted part. Record speeds were being reached given the new tarmac. The lap records were shattered! Lorenzo was coming off a 200mph straight, while Marquez was accelerating from pit lane's speed limit. I'm stunned at the majority of people (it seems like this) saying the re-entry by Marquez was nothing worth discussing (even Lorenzo, perhaps high on the unexpected win, didn't give it much attention).

In addition, Kropo's logic that Marc was "ahead" of Lorenzo therefore in the right, is mind-boggling. The picture that Pigeon posted shows Marquez looking back to Lorenzo. At that point, can somebody give me an estimate of speed differential. I'd say Lorenzo was probably motoring at 200mph+, Marc, taking a good luck back was probably doing less than half the speed. The picture shows Marc ahead of Lorenzo, that is true. The logic that a rider with "cold tires" exiting pit lane had the right of way on account that he was ahead off a rider on race temp tires coming off 200mph is simply all I need to know about the soundness of Kropo's ( or anybody else agreeing with him) opinion on the incident. The world has gone mad.

Gaz · Oct 21, 2013

Jumkie

3647571382346048

Good post, but I want to bring more attention to the highlighted part. Record speeds were being reached given the new tarmac. The lap records were shattered! Lorenzo was coming off a 200mph straight, while Marquez was accelerating from pit lane's speed limit. I'm stunned at the majority of people (it seems like this) saying the re-entry by Marquez was nothing worth discussing (even Lorenzo, perhaps high on the unexpected win, didn't give it much attention).

In addition, Kropo's logic that Marc was "ahead" of Lorenzo therefore in the right, is mind-boggling. The picture that Pigeon posted shows Marquez looking back to Lorenzo. At that point, can somebody give me an estimate of speed differential. I'd say Lorenzo was probably motoring at 200mph+, Marc, taking a good luck back was probably doing less than half the speed. The picture shows Marc ahead of Lorenzo, that is true. The logic that a rider with "cold tires" exiting pit lane had the right of way on account that he was ahead off a rider on race temp tires coming off 200mph is simply all I need to know about the soundness of Kropo's ( or anybody else agreeing with him) opinion on the incident. The world has gone mad.

Jums, the pic you refers to is taken with Marquez still in the 60kmh pit lane speed limit zone which did not end until he had to tun at the bottom of the lane to reenter the circuit (ie, right turn under hard acceleration to get to speed)

Speed differential at the time he looks around 270kmh but at impact significantly less (factoring MM's acceleration and JL's brake and back shift two gears) so likely around 60 or so kays (am sure telemetry exists that would provide exact figure)

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

the-insider

3647501382344617

Jumkie, I tried to answer a post of yours but I have no idea where it has gone, my view for what its worth is, Bridgestone caused the whole pile of ...., we can argue the toss about what happened during the race for ever, and this forum shows that there are many takes on why Marquez did what he did, for me none of this would have happened if Bridgestone had done the R&D on the new track surface. You are obviously a very sharp guy, but I don't know why Marquez hit Jorge, so it is pointless for me to argue, when I said he would get all the flack, I meant people would not have a look at the root cause of the .... up (the dangerous tyre) but would concentrate on the contact made.

Well, Dorna have been demanding Bridgestone to develop a tire that makes the races more entertaining, you gotta admit, this was a circus. Nah really though, Bridgestone brought out an inadequate tire. Check. They informed the League authority that said tires were inadequate. That is, they took responsibility for their "pile of ....". Check. At that point the decision to run the race was effectively out of their hands. Nothing beyond that point can be blamed on Bridgestone. Dorna decided to run the race. And as I said before, I think they did because of the pressure of having all the cameras cued up and the TV programers expecting a race to collect on commercials.

Btw, write your posts on a word document if you can, then cut and past. The site has been screwing up lately. I have had several post add these "snippet characters" after editing requiring me to clean them up. Very frustrating.

Gaz · Oct 21, 2013

For those interested .......... watch this from inside the Repsol garage

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2013/How+Marquez+took+it+too+far+in+Australia

It may also dispell the myth that MM smiled when he entered the pits as he did not look happy but it does show the team knew when JL entered and MM went past

Is also quite funny to listen to Nakamoto call ........

the-insider · Oct 21, 2013

Jumkie

3647601382347116

Well, Dorna have been demanding Bridgestone to develop a tire that makes the races more entertaining, you gotta admit, this was a circus. Nah really though, Bridgestone brought out an inadequate tire. Check. They informed the League authority that said tires were inadequate. That is, they took responsibility for their "pile of ....". Check. At that point the decision to run the race was effectively out of their hands. Nothing beyond that point can be blamed on Bridgestone. Dorna decided to run the race. And as I said before, I think they did because of the pressure of having all the cameras cued up and the TV programers expecting a race to collect on commercials.

Btw, write your posts on a word document if you can, then cut and past. The site has been screwing up lately. I have had several post add these "snippet characters" after editing requiring me to clean them up. Very frustrating.

Good plan, thanks buddy.

Jumkie · Oct 21, 2013

Gaz

3647511382344907

But Jums, technically and yes I do mean technically when Marquez rejoined the track he was in front of Lorenzo and thus leading the race .

Yes, Krop does throw a spin but technically he is correct, or was for around 100 metres of course .

So whilst it may be scene as fantasy Marquez did and had led across the line on that lap

And no, I am not passing judgement on the article or any other issue surrounding the re-entry with this statement, but Krop is 100% correct in saying that MM was leading. What I do not agree with is that he has no responsibility for what is behind if Krop means that as the leader MM has impunity in regards to what he does.

Edit. Jumkie, according to teh MotoGP website MM led laps 10 and 11 (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2013/AUS/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf?v1_6204c016) thus Krop is correct that he was leading

Gaz, first of all, I don't get the point of your post sir. I had already said Marc was technically ahead of Lorenzo when he looked back at him from the pit exit. Why are you reiterating it? When Marc was elegantly "pirouetting" (thanx DrN) off his bike an onto his spare, he was technically ahead of Lorenzo. If we are to apply Kropos logic 'which you are not passing judgement on', then every rider exiting pit lane should not even bother looking back onto the Gardner Straight. It is of not concern to them, as by virtue of being ahead, then have the right of way.

Gaz, grow some balls amigo and call out Kropo for being insane.

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