The 'Will Joan Mir be the latest rider to be ruined by the Repsol Honda' thread...

[michaelm]

Yes, and it was fairly clear which side of the garage Gigi preferred/ considered more important.

It doubtless took mammoth effort and probably a change in his riding style for Lorenzo to eventually become competitive on the Ducati, and adapting to a third bike particularly at that stage in his career with his injury history was a bridge too far.

As you imply he still might have had a hand in the current strength of the bike which does appear to turn now, and I strongly suspect unless someone who was highly elite was also on a fully supported Ducati prime Lorenzo would be butterhammering away into the far distance.

 

[Bern1]

I actually fully and largely put Lorenzo's issues at HRC down to his years prior with the team atmospheres he had experienced simply burning him out (absolutely also injuries playing a big part).

Yes to both issues. I was always amazed at how quickly he came back from injuries and was straight back to the pointy end of the running order. However, after the big offs on the Ducati and the Honda I think he started thinking about the rest of life. He was even considering coming back for a short while but I think he just got tired of doing all that work again.

He deserves the break from all that and I hope he is doing well. My favorite rider of the era, poetry in motion along with Stoner.

 

[Olivavu]

He should have a riding style that will work well enough on the Honda, but I can’t see him getting near another title. A lot happened that allowed him to win it in 2020 and I don’t see that happening again. Will be interesting to see if Rins does better than him, despite being on a satellite bike. Neither will get near Marquez if he stays fit though.

 

[#22]

Yeah, reading that biography was painful. I still don’t read any news about ross. I care nothing about him and I am not even curious.

The margin between success and failure in motorsports is razor thin. Lorenzo put it all on the line at Ducati and it cost him. Truly a shame that by the time he got to Honda he was running out of room. Marquez and Lorenzo could have been a cool show.

I agree, the BS he had to deal with after 2015 in Yamaha when they clearly favoured Rossi to the point of not celebrating Lorenzo's title to appease their master, along with the internal politics of Ducati and adapting to a new bike (which to be fair, once he finally did in mid 2018 he was on fire) just wore him out too much to tame the Honda. I still remember seeing his smile after his first laps on the RC213V and having great hope...

Totally agree - by the time he gotto Honda he was not the Lorenzo of Yamaha days and for mine, he has never been credited enough for the turnaround at Ducati. I say this as while I have often raised the 'interesting circumstance' that both Dovisioso and Ducati only regained a level of competitiveness on the arrival of Lorenzo (and also, I feel hugely responsible Gabbarini) people forget.

At Ducati, Lorenzo was never an equal rider to Dovisioso in the unofficial eyes of the team (Italian Rider on Italian bike versus Spanish Rider on Italian bike) as they wanted their bike competitive and it just so happened to work better for Dovisioso and we all know teh way Ducati 'looks after their riders'

I actually fully and largely put Lorenzo's issues at HRC down to his years prior with the team atmospheres he had experienced simply burning him out (absolutely also injuries playing a big part).

Domenicalli never liked him, and the upturn in Dovi's form meant he had an excuse to axe Lorenzo. As stupid as that was because like others, I feel that 2019 could have seen Lorenzo and Ducati be a force.

Yes, and it was fairly clear which side of the garage Gigi preferred/ considered more important.

It doubtless took mammoth effort and probably a change in his riding style for Lorenzo to eventually become competitive on the Ducati, and adapting to a third bike particularly at that stage in his career with his injury history was a bridge too far.

As you imply he still might have had a hand in the current strength of the bike which does appear to turn now, and I strongly suspect unless someone who was highly elite was also on a fully supported Ducati prime Lorenzo would be butterhammering away into the far distance.

We can only imagine

He should have a riding style that will work well enough on the Honda, but I can’t see him getting near another title. A lot happened that allowed him to win it in 2020 and I don’t see that happening again. Will be interesting to see if Rins does better than him, despite being on a satellite bike. Neither will get near Marquez if he stays fit though.

The fact Marc is the top Honda rider having missed 1/3 of the season says it all about how far ahead he is.

 

[Olivavu]

Yep, Marquez is light years ahead of his Honda colleagues. It is going to be fascinating to see him start a season fit next year and take on Fabio, Pecco and Bastia. I expect he will be a force to be reckoned with. I don’t see Mir threatening the top of the standings next season and probably never again.

 

[imunderandoverit]

The only riders in the GP era who will and have been able ro ride that Honda will always be Rossi, Stoner, Dani, Ukawa, Hayden and Marc.

 

[warthog1]

It needs a shitload of work then. There are some very good riders not on that list.

 

[Olivavu]

It needs a shitload of work then. There are some very good riders not on that list.

Yep, but Honda haven’t always tended to listen to riders. They’ve always been more of a ‘adapt your style’ team.

 

[warthog1]

Yep, but Honda haven’t always tended to listen to riders. They’ve always been more of a ‘adapt your style’ team.

That depends on who has been riding the thing.
Doohan had a very strong personality and seemed to be able to get them to do what he needed.
They need strong direction from their rider.
I am not entirely sure they have had that.
Marquez has been able to ride around problems previously.
It has got to the point that he now can't.
Aero packages have made it harder to ride around grip issues and the lack of bespoke electronic engine control have made it harder to smooth power delivery.
I am still unconvinced MM will have the machine and the body to do the job next year.
We will see.

 

[Olivavu]

Yep, there have been exceptions. But they are few. Many riders have tried to tame that bike and struggled.

Marquez will need to work harder than ever to win the title next year, but it remains to be seen if he is in good enough shape to do that given the standard of the Honda these days.

 

[#22]

That depends on who has been riding the thing.
Doohan had a very strong personality and seemed to be able to get them to do what he needed.
They need strong direction from their rider.
I am not entirely sure they have had that.
Marquez has been able to ride around problems previously.
It has got to the point that he now can't.
Aero packages have made it harder to ride around grip issues and the lack of bespoke electronic engine control have made it harder to smooth power delivery.
I am still unconvinced MM will have the machine and the body to do the job next year.
We will see.

Sounds very much like 2008-201 Ducati.

Stoner: The bike needs to turn better, there is no front end
Ducati: You're winning on it, so what's the problem?!

 

[misfit]

To the OP's question: Sadly, I believe he will be. I hope that he proves us wrong.

 

[Oliveiraz33]

If Mir gets ruined, I can't think what it will do to Rins. Mir has a much more aggressive riding style than Alex

 

[evo9]

Go to 3:13 or 4:12 minutes of the video. He is already doing the point & shoot style at 55 seconds in the video.

 

[Oliveiraz33]

Mir will be the fastest Honda rider (bar Marc), mark my words. If it was a Yamaha, I might bet on Rins.

 

[misfit]

Mir will be the fastest Honda rider (bar Marc), mark my words. If it was a Yamaha, I might bet on Rins.

Your on!