The Untouchables

michaelm · Dec 10, 2015

propagandhi said:
Migs and mick are excused. I'm the substitute teacher. Give it to me,I have thick skin and you have pics and whatnot of me so I'm basically daring you.

Whilst I agree the only problem with Keshav's posts on this thread are that I disagree with him and share Jumkie's opinion that he is wrong, are you buying into Rossi's late season narrative that Jorge has stolen the championship from him by nefarious means, principally the aid of the demonic MM?

propagandhi · Dec 10, 2015

Of course not. I have a set of balls and brain cells.
As the AmA junior vice prez the only thing I can say is that maybe if sepang hadn't happened then maybe 93 would've tried a marquecellissi type kamikaze move on jorge,quite possibly resulting in a dnf. Or maybe that's cause Marquez wised up a little. Marquez couldn't win valencia by all the information we have and really all I can "blame" him for is not trying something outrageously stupid.

Keshav · Dec 10, 2015

Jumkie said:
You have repeatedly tried to incite my reaction despite our agreement to ignore eachother. You have quoted me without any need several times since then, you are aware you can post your moronic opinions without including a quote in your post, therefore you must do this intentionally. You never kept your word then, no reason why anyone would believe you would ever start. I'm happy to destroy every thread going after you. Then you can go crying and appealing to the members and the mods that it's not you who are continually the instigator of flame wars. I am not interested any anything you say, but I'll be happy to oblige, reminding everyone what a real life slimy, backstabbing, dishonest, shameless, damaged character you posses.

You have repeatedly commandeered the PM system of the forum to send your unsolicited harassment, despite me and others stating publicly they want no contact from you.

There are members here who stood by then eventually were sucked in to the flame war, each privy to the exchanges, and each in there way stake holders. Some appealed in attempts to discontinue the flame war by trying to be impartial, here you have it again folks, you have the clear instigator and the reaction he sought. Where is MigsAngel and MickD, who so often sided with you while saying they took no sides? Will you stand up and have the balls to call Kesh out for reigniting this flame war? Or will you take the same chickenshit approach that "it takes two to tango"? There were other members who chimed in, and you know who you are, I won't call you out by name, but will you stand up?

The last three times this ignited, it was clearly traceable to Keshav's instigation, so if you do chime in, spare me the attempt at being impartial. Its here for you to see who has started it. And you can go back into the forum and see since we called truce that Keshav has in fact attempted to spark a reaction several times. Up until today I've kept my bargain.

I fully expect you Kesh to respond with some weaseling ......... You cant help yourself, you have no self control, your self esteem is so ...... that you come here for some kind of affirmation. You can't just talk racing, as you so often claimed, but feel the need to have a running flame war. You have been the number one person for this since you arrived. You are the common denominator in most .... storms, and certainly the ugliest ones that became personal. You are the forum Kancer. And as Kancers do, they always seem to come back.

I haven't quoted you with intent to inflame you. I have avoided saying anything to insult you. That one particular post was so clearly pointed at me that I commented very lightly - and made no personal insults, no references to any personal aspect of yourself. Didn't make reference to your family, your religion, your ethnicity etc. etc. etc. All I said was it contained too many tangential irrelevancies to wade through. Essentially - I felt like I couldn't be arsed to respond to the post because it would entail getting bogged down in a morass of tangents that would lead to more tangents. Hardly what anyone would describe at a "flame". If you're determined to start the war again - I can't stop you.

Keshav · Dec 10, 2015

JPSLotus said:
There's a 55.5% chance you will not get overtaking at Valencia, which is roughly 2 to 1 odds. It's a 55% chance of it not happening.

MM participating or not is irrelevant. I know you think it is, but it really is not.
That's your opinion. However - when you take into consideration the odds against a rookie rider winning as many races and taking a record number of poles and winning two championships in his first two season. It does rather skew the odds.

Past results are no guarantor of future returns, especially in racing.

Nobody implied otherwise. Marquez's dominance and record breaking seasons in his first two seasons clearly prove that point - in my favor. Nobody based on "past results" could have predicted the results of those two seasons. MM's performance has been the anomaly that so strikingly changed the equation. Whether he can come back next year and repeat the results of his first two seasons is an unknown - but it won't surprise me if he does.

Keshav · Dec 10, 2015

michaelm said:
Oxley didn't say passing was impossible at Valencia, just that it was difficult. Your main example of passing at Valencia was MM in 2014, when he had close to the most dominant season in history. In 2013 Jorge was desperately trying to induce MM to pass and race him, with limited success, and I am sure could have run away at the front if he had wished to do so. The burden of proof for the 2015 race is on those alleging conspiracy/race fixing, which unfortunately would seem to include you, and absolutely no such proof exists.

If Jorge had lost due to helmet problems that would have been down to him and not have detracted from a Rossi championship. I see no caveats on Jorge's eventual championship, if Rossi needed MM to beat Lorenzo in the first place that is his deficiency; all of his problems could have been answered by the simple expedient of beating Lorenzo on the last 3 races which it seems unlikely to me he could have done in any circumstances. All else is chickenshit self-justification, again imo.

Right. It's just that JP has continually thrown this statistic in my face for the purpose of bolstering his seeming contention that there was virtually no chance that MM could have made the pass that this is what I read in his posts. So yes.. I am guilty of becoming defensive and not recognizing that it was merely a statistic that says in 45% of the cumulative races at Valencia there was passing. 45% is not a small number. It's not like we're counting electoral votes here. The fact that MM is posted results in his first two seasons that were so vastly against the odds rather makes that 55% number less salient. Marquez has assuredly had more than his quotient of results that were considered to be very much contrary to what the odds would imply.

In the end it comes down to a simple theoretical contention that MM was capable of passing and that Dani was on fire that day at Valencia and if MM had made the pass, Dani who was consistently doing quicker lap times was close enough to pass as well if Marquez was not between them. Nobody can "prove" anything one way or the other. One can only point out the stats and the history of the riders and then come to their own conclusions. They say the best outcome of a debate like this is not to "win" but to make some progress in opening up minds to possibilities that others had not considered. That's my only stake in the game.

Keshav · Dec 10, 2015

michaelm said:
Whilst I agree the only problem with Keshav's posts on this thread are that I disagree with him and share Jumkie's opinion that he is wrong, are you buying into Rossi's late season narrative that Jorge has stolen the championship from him by nefarious means, principally the aid of the demonic MM?[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that you are so familiar with the mentality of Marquez that you are completely close-minded to the possibility that Marquez did skew the results?

Personally - I don't care if Rossi lost the championship. He didn't deserve it. Donald Trump doesn't deserve to be a billionaire nor is he deserving of the media attention that drives this racist ..... further up in the polls. The odds would seem to be against it. But it's happening just the same. Some folks here seem to think I'm a crypto Rossi supporter. But that's simply not the case.

I don't think Lorenzo did anything nefarious. He just ran his race to the best of his ability - yet from the social media perspective his championship has been overshadowed by the controversy surrounding it. And that controversy has fueled the debate here long after the race is done. Debating is what fuels this forum - especially during the winter months.

JPSLotus · Dec 10, 2015

propagandhi said:
Migs and mick are excused. I'm the substitute teacher. Give it to me,I have thick skin and you have pics and whatnot of me so I'm basically daring you.

You are the lowest of the low jum. I taught at schools for special kids but truly have never encountered one as ........ as you.
You truly are autismus maximus. Either you're on psychosis inducing drugs or it runs in the family. Neither is an excuse
Who's the one always bringing up old ....?
The one going personal?
The one needing to slack others because wtf ever?
Go choke on a bag of dicks you ..... You're high and mighty with your schizophrenia but that doesn't excuse humiliating others poor health.
You're the poison here but project it onto others. Not buying it.
And trust me, if you hadn't the geographical convenience aspect going for you a lot less people would give a .... about you.

Uhhhhhhh did I miss something?

Keshav · Dec 10, 2015

Jumkie said:
You have repeatedly tried to incite my reaction despite our agreement to ignore eachother. You have quoted me without any need several times since then, you are aware you can post your moronic opinions without including a quote in your post, therefore you must do this intentionally. You never kept your word then, no reason why anyone would believe you would ever start. I'm happy to destroy every thread going after you. Then you can go crying and appealing to the members and the mods that it's not you who are continually the instigator of flame wars. I am not interested any anything you say, but I'll be happy to oblige, reminding everyone what a real life slimy, backstabbing, dishonest, shameless, damaged character you posses.

You have repeatedly commandeered the PM system of the forum to send your unsolicited harassment, despite me and others stating publicly they want no contact from you.

There are members here who stood by then eventually were sucked in to the flame war, each privy to the exchanges, and each in there way stake holders. Some appealed in attempts to discontinue the flame war by trying to be impartial, here you have it again folks, you have the clear instigator and the reaction he sought. Where is MigsAngel and MickD, who so often sided with you while saying they took no sides? Will you stand up and have the balls to call Kesh out for reigniting this flame war? Or will you take the same chickenshit approach that "it takes two to tango"? There were other members who chimed in, and you know who you are, I won't call you out by name, but will you stand up?

The last three times this ignited, it was clearly traceable to Keshav's instigation, so if you do chime in, spare me the attempt at being impartial. Its here for you to see who has started it. And you can go back into the forum and see since we called truce that Keshav has in fact attempted to spark a reaction several times. Up until today I've kept my bargain.

I fully expect you Kesh to respond with some weaseling ......... You cant help yourself, you have no self control, your self esteem is so ...... that you come here for some kind of affirmation. You can't just talk racing, as you so often claimed, but feel the need to have a running flame war. You have been the number one person for this since you arrived. You are the common denominator in most .... storms, and certainly the ugliest ones that became personal. You are the forum Kancer. And as Kancers do, they always seem to come back.

This is just an outright fabrication. I haven't send you a PM in many months and when I did it was for purposes of trying to find some middle ground on which you and I might interact with a degree of civility.

littlesparrows · Dec 10, 2015

to whom it may concern:

you fight worse than a pack of dogs on a decaying carcass.

quit the he said/she said ........ (thanks limp bizkit) –and grow the .... up.

there's a difference between being childish & being an adult, having a disagreement.

we are human, if we all agreed on .... – life would be utterly boring...HOWEVER...can we all be adults & just take .... with a grain of salt. bite your tongue a little bit? agree to disagree?

i do understand most of us are hard headed/opinionated individuals – but sometimes you gotta let .... go.

sorry for being a forum mom...but jesus christ you guys are exhausting.

there is a difference between talkin' .... & literally talking .......choose wisely.

remember satans waitin'.

Jumkie · Dec 10, 2015

littlesparrows said:
to whom it may concern:

you fight worse than a pack of dogs on a decaying carcass.

quit the he said/she said ........ (thanks limp bizkit) –and grow the .... up.

there's a difference between being childish & being an adult, having a disagreement.

we are human, if we all agreed on .... – life would be utterly boring...HOWEVER...can we all be adults & just take .... with a grain of salt. bite your tongue a little bit? agree to disagree?

i do understand most of us are hard headed/opinionated individuals – but sometimes you gotta let .... go.

sorry for being a forum mom...but jesus christ you guys are exhausting.

there is a difference between talkin' .... & literally talking .......choose wisely.

remember satans waitin'.

Thanx for your contribution Sparrow. Here is the thing, this flame war came to an end by me. The middle ground was to no longer engage eachother, which Kesh agreed to, however Kesh has since repeatedly broken his word. His last attempt, where he quotes me to point out flaws, what reaction do you think he was seeking to illicit?

Keshav said:
I would reply to this - but it's so larded with irrelevancies that it's like wading though quicksand.

Sparrow, as you can see i have resisted his attempt to get my attention, and I've done as u suggest, bitten my tongue; now again enough is enough, you want my attention Kesh, here it is. This is not one of those instances where we are both at fault, he has been repeatedly instigating a response, it's a situation clearly observable, as you can trace back his repeated attempts to get my attention.

Like I said, this is not a situation where it's reasonable to say 'well both of you shut up', I have been the only one to keep my word on the agreement not to directly engage eachother. Why aren't you telling Kesh, keep your word? I think this is a situation that deserves specificity. Again, this is not a situation where 'both of you cool it' as I have not engaged him while he has repeatedly tried to get my attention. Others even stated that if we truced, if one of us reignited the flame war, then they'd point out the instigator in no uncertain terms. Who instigated this recent episode? Did I try to engage him? Or did he directly quoted me to make a dig? There is actually an answer.

Sparrow,i appreciate your advice, im happy not to engage Kesh, and I stated as much publicly. I've not engaged him whatsoever. Fact. Yet, here he is again though, not even recognizing he has not kept his word. Read his response, do you see any recognition that he has broken his word and has engaged me? None. So should I continue to ignore his attempts at getting my attention? Would you ignore him if he took a dig at you? Perhaps, but honey, I'm not the bigger man. I wish I was, however to my credit, I called a truced, I agreed not to engage him directly, and up until this point, I've kept my bargain. That is the only middle ground for us, that is not to engage eachother.

Bern1 · Dec 10, 2015

michaelm said:
Oxley didn't say passing was impossible at Valencia, just that it was difficult. Your main example of passing at Valencia was MM in 2014, when he had close to the most dominant season in history. In 2013 Jorge was desperately trying to induce MM to pass and race him, with limited success, and I am sure could have run away at the front if he had wished to do so. The burden of proof for the 2015 race is on those alleging conspiracy/race fixing, which unfortunately would seem to include you, and absolutely no such proof exists.

If Jorge had lost due to helmet problems that would have been down to him and not have detracted from a Rossi championship. I see no caveats on Jorge's eventual championship, if Rossi needed MM to beat Lorenzo in the first place that is his deficiency; all of his problems could have been answered by the simple expedient of beating Lorenzo on the last 3 races which it seems unlikely to me he could have done in any circumstances. All else is chickenshit self-justification, again imo.

I read this as: if Lorenzo had not had the visor problems, etc., he would have had enough of a lead going into the last rounds to make the issues moot.

povol · Dec 10, 2015

JPSLotus said:
2006 actually falls into the range of dry weather races Oxley is discussing.

The last 9 dry-weather races at Valencia are as follows: 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015

The one non dry-weather race was: 2012

2012 doesn't factor in.

You're wrong again.

If you remember, 2014 was listed as a dry race but started to rain, allowing Rossi to catch Ianonne from a couple of seconds down for the lead. Then it dried up and Marquez caught and passed Rossi. Had it not been for the rain, you would have had another race with very little going on at the front.

povol · Dec 10, 2015

Keshav said:
Races from 9 years ago by Bayliss and Capirossi have no bearing at all on this discussion.

says the guy who posted videos of off years to try and prove a point.Valencia is Valencia, it was just as hard to pass 9 years ago as it is today.

povol · Dec 10, 2015

Keshav said:
michaelm said:

[[/B]/QUOTE]

- yet from the social media perspective his championship has been overshadowed by the controversy surrounding it.

Click to expand...

By people like you.

JPSLotus · Dec 10, 2015

povol said:
If you remember, 2014 was listed as a dry race but started to rain, allowing Rossi to catch Ianonne from a couple of seconds down for the lead. Then it dried up and Marquez caught and passed Rossi. Had it not been for the rain, you would have had another race with very little going on at the front.

Good point, I wasn't even thinking about when it started to rain and then stopped.

Basically for ..... and giggles, let's just say you've got a 50% chance of a race where you have overtaking at the front, and a 50% chance of no overtaking at the front as long as it's dry weather, no one should be shocked when a rider finds himself unable to overtake the leader when you have a 1 in 2 chance of that being the outcome.

Jumkie · Dec 10, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Good point, I wasn't even thinking about when it started to rain and then stopped.

Basically for ..... and giggles, let's just say you've got a 50% chance of a race where you have overtaking at the front, and a 50% chance of no overtaking at the front as long as it's dry weather, no one should be shocked when a rider finds himself unable to overtake the leader when you have a 1 in 2 chance of that being the outcome.

Mike also had an excellent point about Valencia 2013, that if Lorenzo had so chosen, he could have lead that dry race flag to flag.

JohnnyKnockdown · Dec 10, 2015

Passing at Valencia is tough enough to begin with. Trying to pass a rider of Lotenzo's calibre on the last lap to win a championship is near impossible. I don't understand why the media and fans fail to recognize this. he is one of the most savvy and agressive riders out there. He's not laying down for anyone, especially the likes of Pedrosa.

JPSLotus · Dec 10, 2015

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Passing at Valencia is tough enough to begin with. Trying to pass a rider of Lotenzo's calibre on the last lap to win a championship is near impossible. I don't understand why the media and fans fail to recognize this. he is one of the most savvy and agressive riders out there. He's not laying down for anyone, especially the likes of Pedrosa.

It's all because VR planted an idea in everyone's head, and the gullible are suddenly seeing things that don't exist, and would never have thought of had VR kept his ....... mouth shut.

It's the Communist scare of the 1950s reinterpreted for modern times.

Gaz · Dec 10, 2015

littlesparrows said:
to whom it may concern:

you fight worse than a pack of dogs on a decaying carcass.

quit the he said/she said ........ (thanks limp bizkit) –and grow the .... up.

there's a difference between being childish & being an adult, having a disagreement.

we are human, if we all agreed on .... – life would be utterly boring...HOWEVER...can we all be adults & just take .... with a grain of salt. bite your tongue a little bit? agree to disagree?

i do understand most of us are hard headed/opinionated individuals – but sometimes you gotta let .... go.

sorry for being a forum mom...but jesus christ you guys are exhausting.

there is a difference between talkin' .... & literally talking .......choose wisely.

remember satans waitin'.

Thanks mum ........................ the voice of sense and reason

Keshav · Dec 10, 2015

michaelm said:
Whilst I agree the only problem with Keshav's posts on this thread are that I disagree with him and share Jumkie's opinion that he is wrong, are you buying into Rossi's late season narrative that Jorge has stolen the championship from him by nefarious means, principally the aid of the demonic MM?

Hi Michael - please check your PM.
Thanks,
Keshav

The Untouchables

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

michaelm

propagandhi

Keshav

Keshav

Keshav

Keshav

JPSLotus

Keshav

littlesparrows

Jumkie

Bern1

povol

povol

povol

JPSLotus

Jumkie

JohnnyKnockdown

JPSLotus

Gaz

Keshav

Similar threads

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions