The Untouchables

michaelm · Dec 1, 2015

steeeeeve said:
I don't believe he was deliberately trying to eliminate a fellow competitor. I do believe he was in a bit of panic mode because he was being relentlessly attacked on the track. The passes were clean because VR took evasive maneuvers. Had he not, there would have been contact. He was the one who was desperate to not make contact, crash, and lose the championship. Had MM made an evasive maneuver, they wouldn't have made contact. He did the opposite. It's not rocket science.
Unless you already hate VR that slow wide move isn't a deal breaker. It's not uncommon to have disdain for someone with this much success. People often want to tear people down when they are on that high of level.
Yeah. Says a lot about MM too. "Hey! Now i'm done ....... with your Championship, turns out i'm not so popular and losing .... tons of cash. Can we be best pals now?" Gotta love it!

Again you illustrate the point that is being made against you, ie it is always the other rider's fault, even if VR actually takes them out, VR is a super hero, his rival is a villain, now being extended to MM as it has been to every other serious rival Valentino has ever had. As someone mentioned recently, Stoner even became the villain of the piece at Jerez 2011 when he was taken out whilst leading the championship by an egregious riding error on VR's part.

What is amusing is that you guys can't handle even a small corner of the internet having a number of posters who have a view opposed to your orthodoxy.

Bern1 · Dec 1, 2015

steeeeeve said:
I think you nearly nailed it here Jum. Except you got it backwards. You see, he didn't dope, brandish a firearm, or anything so unsavory. He slowed down and went a bit wide. Nope, I'm not going to completely condemn him for that. And you lot want to bury him for it. Who is overreacting?
By reading what you fellas write, if i didn't know better, I'd think he'd ghost ridden his M1 into a pack of orphans.
But I hear MM is desperate for his relationship with VR to be repaired. He's feeling the pain already. Haven't heard to much from VR. Hilarious. MM probably should have braked late at least once against JLO. Shown him a wheel at least once. But Hey! Maybe MM will thrive on the adversity. Ya never know.

Steve, looks like you are a senior member here and I may be wrong, but from the content of this post it looks like you perhaps are not aware of some of the basics of motorcycle racing.

steeeeeve · Dec 1, 2015

Bern1 said:
Steve, looks like you are a senior member here and I may be wrong, but from the content of this post it looks like you perhaps are not aware of some of the basics of motorcycle racing.

El oh el. This is where I show the newb a foto of me with me and race bikes right?
Classic.

The Burning Barber · Dec 1, 2015

The only reason someone should be going too wide is because they are going too fast. Not too slow. I think that is why Marquez made the assumption that there is no reason for Rossi not to turn in a lot sooner than he did.

paparazzo · Dec 1, 2015

Bern1 said:
Steve, looks like you are a senior member here and I may be wrong, but from the content of this post it looks like you perhaps are not aware of some of the basics of motorcycle racing.

Why? because you happen to not agree with it makes him unaware of motorcycle racing? GTFO

Jumkie · Dec 1, 2015

Bern1 said:
...the basics of motorcycle racing.

In a normal world yes. But Rossi and his fans have turned the generally accepted principles of motorcycle racing on its head. Before Rossi tried to crash out another rider, had you asked anyone remotely knowledgeable of the sport, they would have told you this was the ultimate no no. If you could for a moment imagine if Marquez would have deliberately crashed out Rossi by running him wide what would have happened to him? No, seriously think about this. You think the Rossi fans would have been defending Marquez action? Do you think they would have been making Rossi out to be the perpetrator? The antagonist? The perpetrator? I can hear the Rossi fans now, 'well of course Rossi deserved to be crashed out, after all Rossi was racing Marquez cleanly putting the lad in danger.'

If they wouldn't have taken this line of reasoning then it says everything as to why they take this line of "reasoning" now. Seriously, Steeeeeve, Papabozzo, if the tables were turned, would you be saying Rossi deserved to be taken wide and ultimately to crash had Marquez taken him wide over the crime of being raced cleanly?

Jumkie · Dec 1, 2015

paparazzo said:
Why? because you happen to not agree with it makes him unaware of motorcycle racing? GTFO

No, because it's a disturbing perception of reasonable motorcycle racing. If riders did what Rossi did with the blessings of all the people who have defended the action, racing would cease to be racing and turn into a demolition derby.

You're invited to do a track day with me. I'll even pay for the admission. You can overtake me cleanly, then I'll crash you out when you least expect it. Then tell me these are within the principles of track behavior.

You're a special kind of ....., and it tickles and scares me that there are morons in the world with your perception of life. Anyway, offer stands.

JPSLotus · Dec 1, 2015

Jumkie said:
No, because it's a disturbing perception of reasonable motorcycle racing. If riders did what Rossi did with the blessings of all the people who have defended the action, racing would cease to be racing and turn into a demolition derby.

You're invited to do a track day with me. I'll even pay for the admission. You can overtake me cleanly, then I'll crash you out when you least expect it. Then tell me these are within the principles of track behavior.

You're a special kind of ....., and it tickles and scares me that there are morons in the world with your perception of life. Anyway, offer stands.

This is hilarious.

Keshav · Dec 1, 2015

This is pretty funny too.

steeeeeve · Dec 1, 2015

Jumkie said:
No, because it's a disturbing perception of reasonable motorcycle racing. If riders did what Rossi did with the blessings of all the people who have defended the action, racing would cease to be racing and turn into a demolition derby.

You're invited to do a track day with me. I'll even pay for the admission. You can overtake me cleanly, then I'll crash you out when you least expect it. Then tell me these are within the principles of track behavior.

You're a special kind of ....., and it tickles and scares me that there are morons in the world with your perception of life. Anyway, offer stands.

If we did a track day and you were promised $1,000,000 if you didn't go down and I kept throwing it in hard on you turn after turn after turn lap after lap, i wonder what your strategy would be? Also, if the fella 10 seconds behind us gets in front you, you lose the $1,000,000.
just curious.

Jumkie · Dec 1, 2015

steeeeeve said:
If we did a track day and you were promised $1,000,000 if you didn't go down and I kept throwing it in hard on you turn after turn after turn lap after lap, i wonder what your strategy would be? Also, if the fella 10 seconds behind us gets in front you, you lose the $1,000,000.
just curious.

If u were racing me CLEANLY well I guess I'd say, awesome. If I felt your passes were too clean for safety, then I'd not trying to relentlessly overtake you and follow behind. Collect my 1,000,000 at the finish knowing you are fast enough to safely finish ahead of tge guy 10 secs behind. Sign me up bro. Sounds like an easy way to make a million bucks.

michaelm · Dec 1, 2015

steeeeeve said:
If we did a track day and you were promised $1,000,000 if you didn't go down and I kept throwing it in hard on you turn after turn after turn lap after lap, i wonder what your strategy would be? Also, if the fella 10 seconds behind us gets in front you, you lose the $1,000,000.
just curious.

Depends whether the competition has rules or not. If there are rules, that is part of the whole thing and you are disqualified for breaking them regardless of the stakes. Happens in other sports such as horse racing all the time when there are large amounts of actual money at stake. I presume you are speaking figuratively in regard to VR and MM; I doubt either of them would do anything much untoward for a mere million dollars.

steeeeeve · Dec 1, 2015

Jumkie said:
If u were racing me CLEANLY well I guess I'd say, awesome. If I felt your passes were too clean for safety, then I'd not trying to relentlessly overtake you and follow behind. Collect my 1,000,000 at the finish knowing you are fast enough to safely finish ahead of tge guy 10 secs behind. Sign me up bro. Sounds like an easy way to make a million bucks.

you know i (he) wouldn't let that happen. I'd just let you go by. then do it again. you would crawl to almost a stop, then I'd get desperate and try to take you down. hopefully i won't go down instead. by the way, i have really bad feel up front. i really hope i don't low side it as i'm throwing it in over and over. cuz i'm really pulling for you!

edit* but if i did happen to take you out, you know because i had bad feel up front, on the 17th hard clean pass attempt i lowsided, I am glad to know you would still be cool with me. Even tho that cool million was flushed down the toilet.

And MichealM? what's the movie when the group of kids are talking about what they'd do with a million bucks? and that one kid says he'd slide that mil over to his dad cuz he's the best investment banker in town. that kid missed the point. you're that kid!

Jumkie · Dec 1, 2015

steeeeeve said:
you know i (he) wouldn't let that happen. I'd just let you go by. then do it again. you would crawl to almost a stop, then I'd get desperate and try to take you down. hopefully i won't go down instead. by the way, i have really bad feel up front. i really hope i don't low side it as i'm throwing it in over and over. cuz i'm really pulling for you!

edit* but if i did happen to take you out, you know because i had bad feel up front, on the 17th hard clean pass attempt i lowsided, I am glad to know you would still be cool with me. Even tho that cool million was flushed down the toilet.

And MichealM? what's the movie when the group of kids are talking about what they'd do with a million bucks? and that one kid says he'd slide that mil over to his dad cuz he's the best investment banker in town. that kid missed the point. you're that kid!

That lowside is imaginary fear right? Because at that "slow" pace (according to you) there would be no risk of lowsiding. Unless of course the pace was fast. Then we'd have no problem staying ahead of that guy 10 secs behind. I'd just follow you. Make the check payable to "Jumkie".

Well if you were letting me go by, surely I would just pass you and stay in front. But if I realized, hey, this guy is faster because no matter what I do, you keep passing me CLEANLY, then I would figure it out very quickly and just follow you. Collect my million bucks.

Wait a minute, so the guy you're saying had front end issues is the same guy you wanted to risk a pass on a title contender (Lorenzo) who had a blistering pace? What if that were Rossi leading, would you have wanted him to attempt a high risk lowside risking pass? (Considering that he'd be disobeying Rossi's admonishment that he got Race Direction to tongue lash Marc exactly about ). Or is problem you really have is anybody making Rossi uncomfortable?

steeeeeve · Dec 1, 2015

Jumkie said:
Well if you were letting me go buy, surely I would just pass you and stay in front. But if I realized, hey, this guy is faster because no matter what I do, you keep passing me CLEANLY, then I would figure it out very quickly and just follow you. Collect my million bucks.

Wait a minute, so the guy you're saying had front end issues is the same guy you wanted to risk a pass on Lorenzo who had a blistering pace? What if that were Rossi leading, would you have wanted him to attempt a pass? Or is the problem you have is anybody making Rossi uncomfortable?

I think we witnessed if it had been Rossi he would have attempted. Multiple times per lap. Don't you remember? It wasn't long ago. Just last season.

steeeeeve · Dec 1, 2015

Jumkie said:
That lowside is imaginary fear right? Because at that "slow" pace (according to you) there would be no risk of lowsiding. Unless of course the pace was fast. Then we'd have no problem staying ahead of that guy 10 secs behind. I'd just follow you. Make the check payable to "Jumkie".

Well if you were letting me go by, surely I would just pass you and stay in front. But if I realized, hey, this guy is faster because no matter what I do, you keep passing me CLEANLY, then I would figure it out very quickly and just follow you. Collect my million bucks.

Wait a minute, so the guy you're saying had front end issues is the same guy you wanted to risk a pass on Lorenzo who had a blistering pace? What if that were Rossi leading, would you have wanted him to attempt a pass? Or is the problem you have is anybody making Rossi uncomfortable?

I won't let you follow. If the guy behind us catches, you lose. This isn't hard.

Jumkie · Dec 1, 2015

steeeeeve said:
I won't let you follow. If the guy behind us catches, you lose. This isn't hard.

But that's not what was happening, you are moving the goal post. The pace was either so "slow" to be 10 secs ahead or so 'fast' to be 10 secs ahead. Either way they were well ahead. You keep claiming Marc was slowing Rossi down, yet they were well ahead of the next guy. So in your scenario, it would be easy to collect the million bucks, because even at your supposed "slow" pace we were 10 secs ahead of the next guy. I win the money. Large bills please. In a suitcase preferably.

Jumkie · Dec 1, 2015

steeeeeve said:
I think we witnessed if it had been Rossi he would have attempted. Multiple times per lap. Don't you remember? It wasn't long ago. Just last season.

But this was before Rossi got Race Direction to tell Marc not to attempt a high risk pass on a title contender. He listened to Rossi’s chickenshit demand. Now you guys changed your mind? Or should have race direction been more specific; "just don't pass Rossi'"

steeeeeve · Dec 1, 2015

Jumkie said:
But that's not what was happening, you are moving the goal post. The pace was either to "slow" to be 10 secs ahead or so 'fast' to be 10 secs ahead. You keep claiming Marc was slowing Rossi down, yet they were well ahead of the next guy. So in your scenario, it would be easy to collect the million bucks, because even at your supposed "slow" pace we were 10 secs ahead of the next guy. I win the money. Large bills please. In a suitcase preferably.

not exactly. i've got nothing to lose. but i'm having a grand old time swapping paint with you. if you drop behind me .... THAT i'm taking another run at you. This is fun for me! is it fun for you with that $$$ on the line? This is lap 5 btw and we have 25 more to go my friend. And I can do this all day long. We're pretty quick now on lap 5 but how long can we keep this up? up to 9 passes per lap. No pressure on me. I'm just having some fun with ya! oh ...., front seems a little squirrelly.

Jumkie · Dec 1, 2015

steeeeeve said:
not exactly. i've got nothing to lose. but i'm having a grand old time swapping paint with you. if you drop behind me .... THAT i'm taking another run at you. This is fun for me! is it fun for you with that $$$ on the line? This is lap 5 btw and we have 25 more to go my friend. And I can do this all day long. We're pretty quick now on lap 5 but how long can we keep this up? up to 9 passes per lap. No pressure on me. I'm just having some fun with ya! oh ...., front seems a little squirrelly.

I would love it, passing me CLEANLY while staying ahead of the next guy knowing a million bucks awaits me at the finish line, hell yes. Btw no paint swapping, in fact no contact at all. Thats what CLEAN racing means buddy. Lets do it every race. No pressure on me either, as I love it when others race me clean. It makes it so easy. Its the dirty riders like Rossi who are willing to punt, kick, and whine that scare me.

So would I be collecting the money in cash or check?

"This is racing!"

The Untouchables

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