Joined May 2015
27 Posts | 9+
Daytona
Joined May 2015
27 Posts | 9+
Daytona
Ok, without Google or Wikipedia or the rare individual that followed Gran Prix 125, 250, or 500 two stroke religiously......who can name what Stoner did prior to 2007 ?
I'm not saying he wasn't great for the few years he was in the top class - but the real "trolls" are those that were not even around pre-motogp.
I'm not saying he wasn't great for the few years he was in the top class - but the real "trolls" are those that were not even around pre-motogp.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
It was obvious Casey had something in 250cc his second go around. He improved each season after he went back to 125cc after the first 250cc attempt.
Let's not forget the pole he took with LCR in their first season in 2006. He was the main reason that team even exists today.
Either way you're an ......
It's provocative
but i think there's some truth in this statement. It's like when [insert name of dead rock star of your choosing] died, their status is immediately boosted. In this case Stoner is alive, but left the sport in his prime and has enjoyed the same status boost. However, i feel like he was beaten soundly by Lorenzo in 2012, at a time when Stoner had plenty of motivation, thus proving he is no more of a god then the rest. He was defending the title, had winning hardware, and knew he was set to retire. I think he would've enjoyed winning again and retiring as champ.
Joined May 2015
27 Posts | 9+
Daytona
Its time to throw the term troll away. Thanks to shittersphere its completely overused.
I see it as tool to gang up on the user with the least popular opinion. It seems that stoner has gained divinity in his retirement even though he chased the championship more than he won it.
While I agree he is probably the fastest man we have ever seen and has marvelous ability, he lacked a champions pedigree of put his head down,grind it out for the long haul and bash fenders all the way to the trophy.
I dont believe anyone else would have won on that 2007 bike but he was given somewhat of an advantage due to Honda designing the mass centralization pedrocycle where mass centralization apparently meant putting their brains inside their arsehole. While I dont believe the Ducati had an overwhelming advantage (albiet somewhat of one) in 07, its success was in no doubt aided by honda and yamahas missteps. Within a year any sort of advantage was erased creating one of the most popular queries on the net, "stoner or bike?" second only to "are kate uptons .... real" (guilty as charged).
Stoner was unable to win again until he was given the keys to a Honda flame thrower. His last season was a pathetic cruising paycheck tour. The only effort he gave was at Phillip Island.
His ability to ride a bike was a Modern marvel, but his ability to win championships was quite lacking. It seems that the aforementioned ability is the memory most want to cherish while blissfully ignoring the latter
I see it as tool to gang up on the user with the least popular opinion. It seems that stoner has gained divinity in his retirement even though he chased the championship more than he won it.
While I agree he is probably the fastest man we have ever seen and has marvelous ability, he lacked a champions pedigree of put his head down,grind it out for the long haul and bash fenders all the way to the trophy.
I dont believe anyone else would have won on that 2007 bike but he was given somewhat of an advantage due to Honda designing the mass centralization pedrocycle where mass centralization apparently meant putting their brains inside their arsehole. While I dont believe the Ducati had an overwhelming advantage (albiet somewhat of one) in 07, its success was in no doubt aided by honda and yamahas missteps. Within a year any sort of advantage was erased creating one of the most popular queries on the net, "stoner or bike?" second only to "are kate uptons .... real" (guilty as charged).
Stoner was unable to win again until he was given the keys to a Honda flame thrower. His last season was a pathetic cruising paycheck tour. The only effort he gave was at Phillip Island.
His ability to ride a bike was a Modern marvel, but his ability to win championships was quite lacking. It seems that the aforementioned ability is the memory most want to cherish while blissfully ignoring the latter
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
That he was able to continue winning races for Ducati on a bike that was inferior over the long haul to anything Yamaha or Honda had on offer is a testament in itself.
You need the machine to have a chance to win the title, but this is true of ANY motor racing period.
It's a myth that the supremely talented win, or might challenge for championships on lesser machines. I wish people would shut up about this aspect of it. Saying he didn't win a title till he got on the Honda is such an undermining of what he did on the Ducati. Please tell me how many wins Ducati has in the premier class since Casey left in 2010? That's right, none.
However, the supremely talented will win races on lesser bikes. What did Rossi do on the Desmosedici again other than whine his way back to Yamaha?
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
That's what I was saying though regarding 'innovation'. Yam/Honda had monopoly on Michelin tyre so Ducati decided to go with a bespoke Bridgestone tyre
Joined Oct 2011
307 Posts | 47+
Up ..... Creek
Whine? He finally spurred Ducati to begin changing the bike in order for it to be where it is now. Do you think if they would have stuck with the frameless design, they would be where they are now? Probably not
The FACT that Rossi and his TEAM were able to win championships with two different manufacturers is a testament not only to his riding ablilty, but also their INPUT means that Ducati finally had the impetus to change. Something SToner and his team were never able to do. So .... Rossi what a ..... punk
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Joined Oct 2011
307 Posts | 47+
Up ..... Creek
At least you can admit that your objectivity is blinded by your dislike of the man, so you're pretty much unable to give credit where credit is due.
Thank you
The carbon monocoque and other stressed carbon chassis components were probably burned in the bonfire of cost-cutting, which was negotiated amongst MSMA members. That's why Preziosi was so bent, and he refused to stay with Ducati, not even as the head of production development, where he could have built whatever he wanted. Honda and Suzuki probably lost narrow-angle V engines in the same meetings.
Rossi/Burgess went to Ducati because they had to build a twin-spar aluminum frame. Needless to say, it didn't work out.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Rossi joined in late 2010 and left in late 2012. The bike barely changed in 2013/2014 so I would put Ducati's current position much more down to another Italian (Gigi), who's only been there 15 months than I would Rossi.
Probably the main input the Rossi episode had with Ducati was the realisation they needed to change their technical infrastructure.
Um, Stoner and his team won championships for two different manufacturers as well, one a marque which has otherwise not won a championship, the other a traditional power house but a power house which had won only 1 of the last 7 championships, and none of the 4 previously contested under the then current 800 formula.
No doubt he isn't of Rossi's stature overall (it is currently looking like the same applies to him and Lorenzo), the numbers don't lie, but the argument that Rossi did better by failing at Ducati than Stoner did by winning there whilst not yours alone is still a strange one imo. I also don't think Eddie Lawson is held in much disregard for not being able to back up his Yamaha and Honda championships at Cagiva.
I have always thought that he should have retired after 2011 if he no longer really wanted to be there; it has since emerged that he did want to retire but Nakamoto talked him into racing in 2012, so I don't think the "cruising for a paycheck" call is correct, particularly since he had absolutely dominated testing before his great mate Carmelo forced the last minute weight changes on the fully developed bike, to be followed by late changes to the tyres for which the bike had been developed. He was also not in a hopeless position in the championship when he broke his ankle at Indy, on a corner where several others went down that week-end and at a track he had called substandard the year before.
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Joined May 2015
27 Posts | 9+
Daytona
Not only that, but could only make it in a sub-average series - AMA. Not to mention Suzuki's full factory support backing there biggest market - U.S.
I love the Suzuki argument back then "how great there are" , thanks to Yosh, Mladin, and the AMA but having next to no success internationally.
Putz.
I love the Suzuki argument back then "how great there are" , thanks to Yosh, Mladin, and the AMA but having next to no success internationally.
Putz.
