Tension in the Repsol Camp

VHMP01 said:

Your assumption holds water bro! Firstly the 'Over Night Specials' were part of the Rules, so it is just crapping on and on about how much of a cheater Riders that had access to them were, if athletes under drugs are out of the rule book its another matter as you state.

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Ah bro, when I debate you or compa Rog, I have to be on my best game, few other posters can take me to task like you two. Part of the rules you say, you mean omission to the contrary right? Michelin was a defacto single tire supplier while officially written into the rules we had a 'tire war'. But just how close to the spirit of what was written the reality of the playing field? Why do I say this well apart from one Dunlop victory that Rog might remember, as it happened in Donington, Michelin won everything in sight. But guess who they 'only' supported? see next reply below as it is connected...

VHMP01 said:

Secondly, many Riders had access to 'Over Night Specials' and they chose not to use them because they could not do better, which probably puts Rossi on a very Risky supposed advantage. Need prove: 2007 'Over Night Specials' flew in pieces where Bridgestones were clearly taking over! And One other Rider was allowed to Switch Mid Season breaking a Contract remember? Not as Rossi who finished the whole Season and then changed. So to answer your question and knowing Dorna, the single tire supplier was to help out Spanish riders like Pedrosa.

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Like I said, I'm always nervous when I debate you or Rog, as you guys know your ..... But what you said above isn't entirely true. Michelin only supported Honda and Yamaha. This is why when Rossi made his switch they continue to supply him with very exclusive overnight specially made tires--but CHARGED other riders! So to say they (others) had access is not exactly right in spirit now is it? Infact my dear friend, this was the reason why Ducati, Suzuki, and Kawasaki went their separate ways and "flipped the finger" to Michelin so to speak. So we had a situation for years ( with the blessing of the governing body), Dorna, Michelin offered for FREE to the golden goose Valentino, specially made superior tires while under the rules CHARGING other riders for this service. Not only that hermano, but others who paid got a less quality product than the free ones given to Rossi, uhm not a level playing field, which lead to the above mentioned factories to drop Michelin and develop a tire to compete, as we can both agree (I hope) that this situation was not equitable.

VHMP01 said:

Also, not all years have Rossi had the advantage all Champions try to get and keep (not the first or only one, so no cheating here either). Yet, he kicked butt too!

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I didn't say he cheated, as he got his advantages fair and square within the rules thanks to Dorna.

mylexicon said:

I think Jumkie and I claim that Rossi is the GOAT, but we understand that the guy is a political animal who is perfectly happy to use the boardroom and the press office to secure his most recent titles rather than settling things on the track. I don't think either of us has said that the 2004 Yamaha was as good as the 2004 Honda.



Rossi deserves a lot of criticism since 2006 b/c he's been using the press office and his political ties to people in Dorna to pressure the GPC to change the sport which has lead to his resurgence. When people use politics to win sporting contests, it ruins the sport and the spectacle of competition.

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Not really sure how you can stand MOTOGP or WSBK for that matter.

Jumkie said:

Don't get frustrated compa. That's what this place is for, so we can repeat ourselves over and over.

What slander are you talking about? Did the Sat night special not exist? Was HRC Rossi years not the best? Ok, I'll give you the switch, he won on an inferior bike, but was he not enjoying special Michelins on that lessor Yamaha? True, Stoner has not won since, makes you wonder where the tire cues are coming from, but as you say, that is just speculation on my part. So I'll concede, but not the advantage regarding the Sat night special, that was real. And HRC being the best during Rossi years, that was real too.

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Where did i mention tyres ?? My slander remark is because you and Lex continue you state as fact but with no proof rossi forces Dorna to change rules. If you truly believe this then why follow the sport?

But since you mention sat night specials, ask yourself who else had them and are they a real advantage. Think about it. Sete had them, Biaggi had them, im even sure Hayden had them especially when he was rossi's team mate. We all know Doohan had them, is he a cheat ? You spend friday and saturday setting up the bike with the tyre's you have then on race day have to put faith in a set you have not yet used . No wonder most riders offered them refused them, Only some riders can develop that specifically and that's what moves technology forward. Maybe this was caseys problem in 06 seeing he stated his tyres were different from the saturday.

Its like new parts, is it an advantage or not. Some say rossi gets the new parts first and thats an unfair advantage, Really ? I remember hayden whining like a ..... because he had to test the new parts first because the #1 rider Dani refused. Nicky stated this caused him problems and that why he wasn't winning.



So compa, you tell me what rules rossi forced dorna to change ? Yes the Honda ended up the best bike, im sure nicky was thankful of that fact but it was not right at the beginning. I remember Mcwilliams running rings around it on the KR500, sure not for long but these riders who first had the 4 strokes had to pretty much learn the tracks again. Did you forget Kato and why Suzuka was then deemed too dangerous ?There were crashes on the 4 strokes were 2 strokes never had crashed before. So is new stuff an advantage or is the advantage for the riders that get tryed and tested stuff.

Rog and V- 100000000000000000



jum and lex- 0





....... hilarious, once again patriachs, 2006 was a long time ago- Nicky has moved on so should you. Your hating is so fantastical now it should be studied by a psych phd student!!!!!!!



The reason Stoner isn't factored into the 2010 title chase at present is actually quite simple,



HE'S 13TH!!!!!!!!!!! WITH SPIES



2 CRASHES AND 10 SECONDS BEHIND IN FIFTH!!!!



Until this changes why would anyone even consider it??? It's a serious detraction from jorges and vr's efforts to even mention stoner and champ win this year at present.



Calling the rossi fans the mindless worshippers is the biggest hypocrisy here. The posts from the haters are well beyond mindless.........





Early calls on a changing of the guard have been made for the past few seasons, nothing new. We've been watching rossi at the sharp end of motorcycle racing since 1997. The man has nothing to prove and if we get another SA 2004 or PI 2001 or Herez 2005 or le mans 2005 or Sepang 2006 or Laguna 08 or Catalunya 09 then those of us who can appreciate it will consider ourselves lucky vr still bothers.



No doubt people hated ago and Hailwood as well......... For whatever reason

chopperman said:

Where did i mention tyres ?? My slander remark is because you and Lex continue you state as fact but with no proof rossi forces Dorna to change rules. If you truly believe this then why follow the sport?

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Fair enough, but don't hold your breath for the official press release from Dorna saying: We threatened Bridgestone to supply Rossi or by proposing a single tire suppliers awarded to Michelin because we want Rossi on Bstones. Most of this played out publicly and its wasn't so difficult to disern, but yeah, no such press release will appear. Is this your smoking gun, lack of an official press release bro? Why watch? So are you telling me that this sport is purely an authentic competition void of politics, power plays, influence from interrelationships capable of manipulation? I accept this fact, but I don't for one minute think that the guys who wins all the time is the best alone. MotoGP is a prototype series with many working parts susceptible to manipulation resulting advantages & disadvantages, both to the riders benefit and detriment. Its life, Dorna is not immune.

chopperman said:

But since you mention sat night specials, ask yourself who else had them and are they a real advantage. Think about it. Sete had them, Biaggi had them, im even sure Hayden had them especially when he was rossi's team mate. We all know Doohan had them, is he a cheat ?

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Actually no and yes. Sete was on a Suzuki for the first two Rossi-Honda titles. So no, he did not have access to Saturday night specials. And Biaggi, well he was on that "inferior" Yamaha, you know the one that made the Earth shattered when Rossi moved to it. Hahaha. So as far as "advantage", perhaps that "inferior" Yamaha canceled out any advantage from the Saturday tires, eh? The only time that the above three had Saturday night special in theory was when they all rode for Honda ( as we know though, not all Hondas are created equal), none the less, that year they came 1,2,3. That should give us a clue about the advantage a Saturday might have had, that is, considerable. Rossi came out on top, so I guess he was the best of the three. But what does this suggest about this combination of package? Look what happened, that made Sete, a guy who on a Suzuki previously finished 9th & 16th, without the benefit of a Saturday tire/Honda suddenly looked like an "alien" in 03 by coming runner up. Sure, you're not gonna find a press release stating that Sete suddenly learned to ride a bike, but we can extrapolate that being on a Honda with special tires made a guy look suddenly great. Can we speculate what this might mean for a guy like Rossi who was at HRC with the special tires? Well maybe not his diehard fans, but for me there is a suggestion.



Using your words compa, did I call him a cheat? No, since of course this would require him to operate outside of the rules. But I will say it was an unfair advantage, which I have said for many years now. I don't think for one minute that GP isn't run like a business at the expense of authentic competition, and as is true in the world, greasy .... happens for the status quo if it is profitable. In regards to the Bstone debacle, I don't think for one minute that whole thing didn't play out with the business model of the sport first and foremost in hand. But yes, no press release to make it official.

chopperman said:

You spend friday and saturday setting up the bike with the tyre's you have then on race day have to put faith in a set you have not yet used .

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Before every race there is a warm-up, so going blind into those overnighters wasn't exactly true. This was fine tuning, they were not recalibrating the entire set up.

chopperman said:

So compa, you tell me what rules rossi forced dorna to change ? Yes the Honda ended up the best bike, im sure nicky was thankful of that fact but it was not right at the beginning. I remember Mcwilliams running rings around it on the KR500, sure not for long but these riders who first had the 4 strokes had to pretty much learn the tracks again. Did you forget Kato and why Suzuka was then deemed too dangerous ?There were crashes on the 4 strokes were 2 strokes never had crashed before. So is new stuff an advantage or is the advantage for the riders that get tryed and tested stuff.

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We cannot deny rules were changed, the question is, did they have any intention to benefit a group or an individual. I contend that they did you contend that they did noti. V mentioned on an above post that "knowing Dorna the single tire supplier was meant to help Spanish riders." Was this in a press release somewhere I missed? No, but we can speculate, extrapolate, and draw inferences. This is perfectly ok when we are talking about a rider we don’t like, but its “slander” when we talk about a ride we love? Ok bro, I concede, hahaha. xoxox

Jumkie, if Rossi had so much control over dorna decisions then why they finished overnight specials?

inam said:

Jumkie, if Rossi had so much control over dorna decisions then why they finished overnight specials?

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Because someone moved 'Area 51' and they can't find it anymore!! Maybe DHL refused such deadlines with an unknown address??!

inam said:

Jumkie, if Rossi had so much control over dorna decisions then why they finished overnight specials?

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b/c it was before his tax problems, and it was before Bridgestone became the tire of choice and before Bridgestone said they didn't want to share their tires with everyone.

mylexicon said:

b/c it was before his tax problems, and it was before Bridgestone became the tire of choice and before Bridgestone said they didn't want to share their tires with everyone.

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WTF Lex, I can't see any connection with Rossi's tax problem with overnight specials or with any of other excuses you posted above.

SackWack said:

Not really sure how you can stand MOTOGP or WSBK for that matter.

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Who else uses the press or the boardroom to get the rules changed in GP or WSBK?



No one. Rossi walked into a Dorna meeting with Michelins and walked out with Bridgestones. What they hell is that? They didn't even try to hide it. Everyone was on the same tires except the GOAT who got the tires switched.



I've kissed enough Rossi ... for one lifetime. The guy is the GOAT, but his political antics and his pontification have gone to far. Anyone else who wants to continue to rim him week after week can do so. I'm going to appreciate Stoner and Lorenzo. They are still doing things the old fashioned way with mind games and hard riding. No abusing the powers of celebrity---not yet anyway.

inam said:

WTF Lex, I can't see any connection with Rossi's tax problem with overnight specials or with any of other excuses you posted above.

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Of course you don't see a connection b/c they banned overnight specials before all of those phenomena. Isn't that what I just said?



They overhauled the tire rules for the second time in 2 years after the emergency tire meetings at the end of 2007. In light of the formula change meetings, I hope people may now finally understand how important those 2007 meetings were. In 2008, Rossi and only Rossi showed up with Bridgestone tires. This was b/c Rossi was broke, he had bad tires, and Bridgestone want to sell tires by making Rossi look average.



If Rossi is has bad tires, he can't win championships. If he can't win championships, he can't get his bonuses from Yamaha and his other sponsors. If he can't get his money from GP, he goes to F1 where he gets a $20M guarantee regardless of whether or not he wins. I'm not sure if Rossi would definitely have gone to F1, but Dorna didn't want to take the chance. Much easier to threaten Bridgestone with a Michelin control tire and then have Yamaha put a wall down the middle of the garage.



I don't think you people understand how business to business negotiations work. There are no rules. You make it up as you go along, and whoever controls the money makes the rules. They don't follow fairness or human decency or practicality, it's all about dividing up the pie according to power politics. If the cash machine says he wants Briidgestones, you make it happen. Business to consumers is an entirely different ballgame, but B2B is the wild west of the business world.



Regardless of Rossi's political sway, I'm disgusted that he abused his celebrity to alter the outcome of the races. I'm even more disgusted with Dorna for making it happen. They knew people would give Rossi a pass, they were right.

Genuine question here. Those that did get overnight specials, did they get their own recipe for a tyre or was there only one recipe? So did Biaggi get the recipe of tyre that he wanted or did he get the recipe of tyre that Michelin gave him?



If there was only one recipe of tyre then who's feedback was used to create the overnight tyre? If it was Rossi's special recipe then it is well document that what Rossi wants in a tyre is often completely different then anyone else especially in a front.



As Lex has argued often in 2008 when Rossi forced Dorna's hand to force Bridgestone's hand to give Rossi tyres the front tyre that was produced was not in the direction of development that Ducati, Suzuki and Kawasaki had been going and hence the comments from all riders on these teams regarding the 2008 front early in the season. Ducati even declared that they would go back to Michelin in 2009. Why? Because the tyres were no longer being built for them.



I argued back then that when Bridgestone's hand was forced if Rossi did not win the Championship then the PR fallout for Bridgestone would be huge as it was for Michelin when Rossi squarely laid blame for his loss in 2007 on the shoulders of Michelin.



If Ducati/Stoner had of won the 2008 Championship it would have proved that it was Ducati/Stoner that won the 2007 Championship. But if Rossi won the 2008 Championship then the only difference between 2007 & 2008 was that Rossi was on Bridgestone instead of Michelin and therefore it was Bridgestone that won the 2007 Championship not Ducati/Stoner.

name='Jumkie' date='28 May 2010 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1275004416' post='239416']

Fair enough, but don't hold your breath for the official press release from Dorna saying: We threatened Bridgestone to supply Rossi or by proposing a single tire suppliers awarded to Michelin because we want Rossi on Bstones.

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We must have covered this a million times so heres a million and one. Rossi's contract with Michelin had run its course, it was the end of the season and rossi needed to sign with a tyre company. There were 3 tyre company's at the time. Michelin, Bridgestone and Dunlop. Rossi was not happy with Michelin along with most others using them. At the time Michelin have very serious problems as a company at board level. In fact the board of directors said they wanted to give up racing. Not what a multi world champion wants to hear if you want his business. Rossi said i don't want to re-sign with these,and said he would rather retire. Dorna had a Panic attack because at the time the official line from bridgstone was they could not supply another rider. We now know this to be ........ as they went on to supply 2 more riders , Rossi and then Pedrosa. For all we know if you want to speculate stoner could have been telling bridgstone not to supply rossi as he would lose his advantage. So if you want to look at riders forcing decisions look at Dani and possibly stoner.

Sete was on a Suzuki for the first two Rossi-Honda titles. So no, he did not have access to Saturday night specials. And Biaggi, well he was on that "inferior" Yamaha, you know the one that made the Earth shattered when Rossi moved to it. Hahaha. So as far as "advantage", perhaps that "inferior" Yamaha canceled out any advantage from the Saturday tires, eh? The only time that the above three had Saturday night special in theory was when they all rode for Honda ( as we know though, not all Hondas are created equal), none the less, that year they came 1,2,3. That should give us a clue about the advantage a Saturday might have had, that is, considerable. Rossi came out on top, so I guess he was the best of the three. But what does this suggest about this combination of package? Look what happened, that made Sete, a guy who on a Suzuki previously finished 9th & 16th, without the benefit of a Saturday tire/Honda suddenly looked like an "alien" in 03 by coming runner up.

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Jeez, you can't compare Sete's 2002 suzuki season and his 2004 honda runner-up season and compare. Then put this comparison down to saturday night special tyres. .... we all know the 4 stroke suzuki has never been that good but the early 4 stroke suzuki was crap. In fact it was pretty much un-rideable. I remember the riders including KR jnr saying the bike had a mind of its own. The thing would either breakdown or throw its rider off for no reason. If you look at Sete's 02 season on this piece of crap he had 8 DNF's out of a 16 race season. His Team mate Akira Ryo had 9 DNF's in the same season. What was this because they had no saturday night specials

You say Biaggi's Yam was inferior, Thats very handy for the hater to say when talking about Rossi's win with Honda, But then when the conversation switch's to the 04 season the same haters will say the yam was as good as the honda or at least not far behind which is in fact what i believe. Thing is you can't have it both ways compa.

Before every race there is a warm-up, so going blind into those over nighters wasn't exactly true. This was fine tuning, they were not recalibrating the entire set up.

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This maybe true, but fact is most riders didn't want them, They prefered the tyres they had been practicing on all weekend rather than take a chance and only get morning practice on the new rubber. In fact most riders reported no difference in them.





I notice you conveniently ignore my hayden comments about him also using saturday night specials and how he said being the first to try out new parts hindered him.

TP70 said:

Genuine question here. Those that did get overnight specials, did they get their own recipe for a tyre or was there only one recipe? So did Biaggi get the recipe of tyre that he wanted or did he get the recipe of tyre that Michelin gave him?



If there was only one recipe of tyre then who's feedback was used to create the overnight tyre? If it was Rossi's special recipe then it is well document that what Rossi wants in a tyre is often completely different then anyone else especially in a front.

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They got the tyre they asked for. Each team's requirement would be different due to bike rider style / preference ect. So biaggi's special tyre would be different from Rossi's if he had asked for a different spec. You hit on the point here really. Not many riders really new what to ask for so did not really benefit from them. I'm not so sure they made much of a difference really. Look at bridgstone and how they succeeded with the more general tyre. Sometime's too much choice just confuses

chopperman said:

This maybe true, but fact is most riders didn't want them, They prefered the tyres they had been practicing on all weekend rather than take a chance and only get morning practice on the new rubber. In fact most riders reported no difference in them.



.

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I am curious....how can most riders not want them and most riders report no difference?? This logic makes this math possible 51% +51% = 100%

chopperman said:

They got the tyre they asked for. Each team's requirement would be different due to bike rider style / preference ect. So biaggi's special tyre would be different from Rossi's if he had asked for a different spec. You hit on the point here really. Not many riders really new what to ask for so did not really benefit from them. I'm not so sure they made much of a difference really. Look at bridgstone and how they succeeded with the more general tyre. Sometime's too much choice just confuses

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Thanks Rog.

FACTORY said:

I am curious....how can most riders not want them and most riders report no difference?? This logic makes this math possible 51% +51% = 100%

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Probably because they tried them and thought there was little or no difference. I would expect teams had to pay for these tyre's unless they were official Michelin testers like Colin Edwards and i bet they don't come cheap.

And by most riders, that's the riders that were ellegible for them. I guess you just being pedantic though.

Colin was quoted as saying that Rossi's specials were too hard for him to get any feel, and went on to say he didn't understand how vr made such a compound work at all?? As I've said before some considered these specials to be very risky indeed.



Vr has won titles with specials and control tyres with three different rubber makers......so jum and lex how do you explain rossi's Dunlop titles, the early days with Michelin before his 'massive influence' changed everything, and now 2 titles with BS, one in the first year after 8 years on other tyres and the other with control rubber available to everyone?

Talpa said:

Colin was quoted as saying that Rossi's specials were too hard for him to get any feel, and went on to say he didn't understand how vr made such a compound work at all?? As I've said before some considered these specials to be very risky indeed.



Vr has won titles with specials and control tyres with three different rubber makers......so jum and lex how do you explain rossi's Dunlop titles, the early days with Michelin before his 'massive influence' changed everything, and now 2 titles with BS, one in the first year after 8 years on other tyres and the other with control rubber available to everyone?

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haha, good point. And as for jumkie saying Dorna threatened Bridgstone with a single tyre rule if they did not have rossi Bridgstone would have known by then the chances were high theres was going to be a sole tyre supplier. It wasn't rocket science who would get it either. Michelin wanted out of racing, Dunlop could not supply the premier class as well as 125 & 250's . Pirelli had there hands full with wsb, so who else was there If anything i thing bridgstone had more power over Dorna than Dorna had over them, bit like when Honda threatened to pull out.

chopperman said:

Rossi said i don't want to re-sign with these,and said he would rather retire. Dorna had a Panic attack because at the time the official line from bridgstone was they could not supply another rider. We now know this to be ........ as they went on to supply 2 more riders , Rossi and then Pedrosa.

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Good morning sunshine. Ah I see you want to continue wrestling with the Green ..........from parts unknown. I'm game.



Ah so did you read this in a press release somewhere? Dorna panicking? Why would Dorna "panic"????? (Lets stop and think about this for a minute, why would the governing body of an 'authentic competition' "panic" over one of the competitors threatening to leave?) I don't remember any official statement from Dorna that they "panicked". Are you "slandering" Dorna? We both know Rossi is above the sport (which you have indirectly admitted above), and Dorna will move mountains for him. (Who insnared who in their shitsnare now compa? ) You are correct, Bstone said they did not want to supply anybody else, and after all the threats from Dorna, they forced their hand. I believe this was detrimental to their long standing clients, in fact, Stoner reported problems with the new design that he opted to use the previous year's tire. I agree, that Pedro's mid season switch was more dastardly. But this highlights what I've been saying (ad you denying)--that Dorna is capable and willing to manipulate the rules for the benefit of an individual. I believe they have, you say you don't believe they did, yet your admission of "panic" above suggests otherwise.

For all we know if you want to speculate stoner could have been telling bridgstone not to supply rossi as he would lose his advantage. So if you want to look at riders forcing decisions look at Dani and possibly stoner.

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Lets get this part straight, only after Bridgestone said they wouldn't supply Rossi came Rossi's retirement threat, do you remember what came after? Oh yeah, the single tire supplier threat from Dorna telling Bstone that the nod would go to Michelin if they didn't supply Rossi. Ducati even asked to return to Michelin seeing that Bstone's would now go in a different design direction. But what did Dorna do? You see, I believe Dorna did Rossi's bidding, but you don't, so I guess we disagree, eh? Hahaha bro, you think Stoner has enough clout to direct anything with Dorna? Well if he did, we pretty much know what Ducati wanted (perhaps as you say at Casey's behest) they wanted to stay with a tire company that would take the design cues from them. Having Rossi on board really screwed that up.

Jeez, you can't compare Sete's 2002 suzuki season and his 2004 honda runner-up season and compare. Then put this comparison down to saturday night special tyres. .... we all know the 4 stroke suzuki has never been that good but the early 4 stroke suzuki was crap. In fact it was pretty much un-rideable. I remember the riders including KR jnr saying the bike had a mind of its own. The thing would either breakdown or throw its rider off for no reason. If you look at Sete's 02 season on this piece of crap he had 8 DNF's out of a 16 race season. His Team mate Akira Ryo had 9 DNF's in the same season. What was this because they had no saturday night specials

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Wait, you are the one who said Sete & Max had the specials against Rossi. All I did was remind you that this was not true, since Sete was on a Suzuki, which Michelin did not supply with specials. So I pointed out your error. I'm well aware that Suzuki suck, they always have.

You say Biaggi's Yam was inferior, Thats very handy for the hater to say when talking about Rossi's win with Honda, But then when the conversation switch's to the 04 season the same haters will say the yam was as good as the honda or at least not far behind which is in fact what i believe. Thing is you can't have it both ways compa.

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Do you expect me to believe you missed the sarcasm in making my point, notice I put "inferior" bike in parenthesis with a few laughing emoticons? That is, you want to down play Rossi's advantages on the Honda with 'specials', tis why I reminded you Biaggi was on the ".... Yamaha" that Rossi fans are so fond of telling us was ....; because as you recall, Rossi fans told us he rose that bike from the dead. So who is having it both ways? Did Rossi have an advantage over Biaggi on the Yamaha? You see the shitsnare corner you painted yourself into? If the Yamaha was so ...... (like you guys tell us) then Biaggi had no chance against Rossi on the HRC/Special treatment tires. God knows Sete didn't have a chance on his Suzuki. So then, did Rossi have the adavantage yes or no? You can't say Rossi didn't have an advantage but then tell us how awful his rivals packages were, that is having it both ways. Match, set, point.

This maybe true, but fact is most riders didn't want them, They prefered the tyres they had been practicing on all weekend rather than take a chance and only get morning practice on the new rubber. In fact most riders reported no difference in them.

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And add to this most riders couldn't afford them. Plus it was reported that Michelin handed out an inferior product to paying customers favoring their free supported riders. Oh and to answer your question about being the first to test parts, c'mon man, we both know that the parts are tested by the number 2 and test riders back at the factory. Only when they prove to be an advantage does the #1 get them during practice. At which time he may reject it. This is not the luxury of the #2 who is actively testing unproven parts even in race situations.

I notice you conveniently ignore my hayden comments about him also using saturday night specials and how he said being the first to try out new parts hindered him.

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I would never ignore you compa. I don't see how this was part of the discussion. Nicky was the number two rider (and rightly so); as I'm sure you are well aware Rossi will not stand for a talented rider challenging him from within the team.



Are you feeling like Cory or Trevor against the Green .......?





Ok, look, I think Rossi has enjoyed unfair advantages and preferential treatment you don't, I can live with that. But I haven't said that the bikes rode themselves. So here is my olive branch. The man had to be talented enough to ride those bikes to victory. So he deserves the credit for that. Does this make him the greatest of all time, well that is debatable, but it certainly makes him one of the best of all time.