Well, Dovi's engineers are only going to be delighted that Dani finished lower than him, no? Not like they're expected to mourn or anything.
I just remembered something important in a pre race interview when Casey was asked about going to Honda,his words were as best as I can recall......Jees,can we leave the Honda stuff till later,whats done is done. Now I would say that its a done deal but don`t quote me on it!! Anyone else see that interview?
Just tellin' it like it is. Rossi had two seasons (2002,2003) like Stoner's 2007 season. Likewise, Rossi had two seasons (2006, 2007) like Casey's 2008 and 2009 seasons when he didn't have exactly the tires or the bike he wanted. Stoner doesn't have the power to change the rules so his ascendancy back to world champion (should it happen again) will probably take a bit longer than Rossi's.
Don't leave Stoner out b/c it's convenient. Rossi vs. Lorenzo is just a profitable subplot for the journos. Does anyone really think that Lorenzo can beat Casey when Casey is at his best? I don't, not yet anyway. That might change, but it's a bit premature to start handing world titles to Lorenzo (although I hope he wins this year).
Only 2002 & 2003? Remember 2008 with 93 Points over 2nd place Stoner? What about 2005 with 147 Points over 2nd place Melandri? And about 2001 with 106 Points over 2nd place Biaggi? You are not 'telling it like it is' Lex.
Only 2002 & 2003? Remember 2008 with 93 Points over 2nd place Stoner? What about 2005 with 147 Points over 2nd place Melandri? And about 2001 with 106 Points over 2nd place Biaggi? You are not 'telling it like it is' Lex.
He never does. Poor chap always confuses his fantasy's with facts.
Only 2002 & 2003? Remember 2008 with 93 Points over 2nd place Stoner? What about 2005 with 147 Points over 2nd place Melandri? And about 2001 with 106 Points over 2nd place Biaggi? You are not 'telling it like it is' Lex.
I wasn't referring to the margin of victory.
I was referring to the fact that Rossi had by far the best bike and tire combination which allowed him to "cruise" to a relatively easy victory in 2002 and 2003. I don't believe that to be the case in 2001 b/c 500cc championships are never a walk in the park (relative to 4-strokes), and I don't consider 2005 to be an easy championship b/c he was up against HRC who were working overtime to develop a Rossi-slaying machine (unfortunately for HRC, it wasn't delivered until late in 2005 when Hayden and Melandri started to take the fight to Rossi).
No poor chap stuff, just read with context.
Sure he had the best bike / package in 03. He had spent several years building it. As for 04 he only won by that margin because sete dfn'ed twice the same as rossi but finished off the podium more. I think it says more about sete than it does about how good the yam was when rossi took it over. In fact both rossi and sete were drawing on 126 pts by brazil and we all know how good the Rc211v was in that year.sete lost ground at Donny and sepang. I suppose your going to tell us the Telifonica Rc211v was not as good as the Repsol 03 bike now
Spin it how you like Lex, you cant ignore the facts.
Sure he had the best bike / package in 03. He had spent several years building it. As for 04 he only won by that margin because sete dfn'ed twice the same as rossi but finished off the podium more. I think it says more about sete than it does about how good the yam was when rossi took it over. In fact both rossi and sete were drawing on 126 pts by brazil and we all know how good the Rc211v was in that year.sete lost ground at Donny and sepang. I suppose your going to tell us the Telifonica Rc211v was not as good as the Repsol 03 bike nowRossi was lucky in that his only real threats were sete and biaggi, neither were consistent enough despite being on the superior bike.
Spin it how you like Lex, you cant ignore the facts.
I meant '02 '03
The 04 season to me is the yardstick for the 4 strokes,not seen anything better yet apart from Stoner`s 09 race at PI.
I meant '02 '03
You said 03- 04 and with that contradicted yourself. Im im supposed to believe you ment 02-03
Im im supposed to believe you ment 02-03
Yes. If you've actually been reading any of my posts you'd have realized that I made a typo.
Ok, thats take the 02 season that you claim rossi 'cruised' because of his bike / tyre package.
Tohru Ukawa was on the same yet came third in the championship behind Biaggi on the M1. Max DNF'ed 3 times that season and was so inconsistent he finished between 1st and 7th place in that season. Again i think this shows more about biaggi not cutting it than it does rossi having superior equipment.
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With all do respect; I've read this many times before. In fact, here on this forum it had been a theme for about two years, usually by Rossi apologist. But take Stoner out of that "Ducati was the best bike" assumption, and you have a Ducati more akin to a third/fourth best works factory bike. You are aware that the other Ducati's were just as 'fast' right? So how do you explain none won like Stoner? Stoner's performance skewed the perception that it was in fact the best built 800 in 2007, as you have done here. But with in depth analysis, then your claim that 07 Duc was the best bike doesn't quite hold water imho. I sometimes think of it like this, had Stoner, a very talented rider, got on something akin to a GP Suzuki and won, then we would have people say, (as you have) 'ah, the Suzuki was the best bike on the grid' ignoring of course that world champs on the similar bike were coming mid-pack and last. In my opinion, Rossi, the standard of GP greatness to most, would have looked ordinary on the same Ducati ridden by Stoner. It sounds like your skeptical of the claim that Rossi has enjoyed the top package to amass some of his titles, but you want to attach him losing them only to inferior equipment compared to Stoner’s 07; as you say Stoner's Duc was the best? Uhm, sir, do you find just a little bit of an inconsistency here?
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Just tellin' it like it is. Rossi had two seasons (2002,2003) like Stoner's 2007 season. Likewise, Rossi had two seasons (2006, 2007) like Casey's 2008 and 2009 seasons when he didn't have exactly the tires or the bike he wanted. Stoner doesn't have the power to change the rules so his ascendancy back to world champion (should it happen again) will probably take a bit longer than Rossi's.
Try as they may, this here is what makes or breaks championships. The Rossi fan disparage Stoner because the only time he beat Vale was when he had the "best bike" or "better tires", but fail to see this was the case for Rossi several years running! This is undeniable, I can understand the casual Rossi fan being ignorant to this but I have only one explanation for the ardent followers who do not accept this reality--mindless worship.
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Only 2002 & 2003? Remember 2008 with 93 Points over 2nd place Stoner? What about 2005 with 147 Points over 2nd place Melandri? And about 2001 with 106 Points over 2nd place Biaggi? You are not 'telling it like it is' Lex.
You are right, Lex left out the fact that since the 2000s, advantages are in the details of tires, package, and misfortune that decide championships for the top riders. We saw the effects of this in 06/07, as Rossi fans reminded us at every corner. Does this truth apply to 01-05, 08-09? YES.
Let me ask you something V. Had Dorna not moved heaven and earth to get Rossi on Bstones, and Stoner notched the 08 titles, what do you think Rossi fans around the globe would have been bitching about? Yes sir, that is how important tires are to championships, and without a shadow of a doubt, Rossi had the 07 Bridgestone equivalent in the Saturday night special for most of his career while others had the 07 Michelin equivalent that he so much bitched about.
(For those who are new to the sport, Valentino Rossi enjoyed for years special treatment by Michelin over much of the grid. They would actually make him special tires from circuit to circuit to race on Sunday made over night the previous Saturday. Ask yourself, just how level the playing field would that make the race? This happened for years and years, perfecting the art of getting him a race advantage. In 2007, when Michelin tires became perceived as inferior to Bridgestone, he was the only rider to be allowed to switch despite at least two other riders asking for the privilege. It effectively put him on the ‘same’ tires as Stoner, except for the fact that Bridgestone redesigned their tire to accommodate their new client to the detriment of their previous clients. This is how important tires are in the modern era of GP racing. Rossi’s Saturday night special tire is the equivalent of athletes competing with sports enhancing drugs. In most cases, when the public finds out that an athlete had an unfair advantage, they are summarily chastised and thought of as cheaters, so as far as undeserving of their accolades. Except in this case, the ardent fans, insiders, and sports media knew of it, as it was legal while the governing body actually encouraged it. That is until Bridgestone made a better tire. At which time only one rider was allowed to switch, then the subsequent year we eliminated the tire war all together. which of course begs the question, for whom are these single tire suppliers getting their tire designs from?)
You and Lex are talking bollocks. Lex states Rossi has the rules changed to suit himself, Another Lex and jumkie fantasy, not fact just fantasy from the haters who have no proof, just slander. The haters will say rossi had the best bike when he was on the honda then in another thread claim when rossi switched to yam the bike was the best or at least as good as the honda. See the contradiction ? Then they will slag off rossi fans who claim the 07 duc was the best bike and that's why stoner won. They ignore the fact he has not won since. I dunno why i bother with this place sometimes, it's like talking to a brick wall and having to repeat yourself year in year out.
Your assumption holds water bro! Firstly the 'Over Night Specials' were part of the Rules, so it is just crapping on and on about how much of a cheater Riders that had access to them were, if athletes under drugs are out of the rule book its another matter as you state. Secondly, many Riders had access to 'Over Night Specials' and they chose not to use them because they could not do better, which probably puts Rossi on a very Risky supposed advantage. Need prove: 2007 'Over Night Specials' flew in pieces where Bridgestones were clearly taking over! And One other Rider was allowed to Switch Mid Season breaking a Contract remember? Not as Rossi who finished the whole Season and then changed. So to answer your question and knowing Dorna, the single tire supplier was to help out Spanish riders like Pedrosa.
Also, not all years have Rossi had the advantage all Champions try to get and keep (not the first or only one, so no cheating here either). Yet, he kicked butt too!
With a lot of numbers on your side Bro! Numbers that speak (yell out) by themselves. You can see the difference between us Boppers, and Stone Heads!
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You and Lex are talking bollocks. Lex states Rossi has the rules changed to suit himself, Another Lex and jumkie fantasy, not fact just fantasy from the haters who have no proof, just slander. The haters will say rossi had the best bike when he was on the honda then in another thread claim when rossi switched to yam the bike was the best or at least as good as the honda. See the contradiction ? Then they will slag off rossi fans who claim the 07 duc was the best bike and that's why stoner won. They ignore the fact he has not won since. I dunno why i bother with this place sometimes, it's like talking to a brick wall and having to repeat yourself year in year out.
Don't get frustrated compa. That's what this place is for, so we can repeat ourselves over and over.What slander are you talking about? Did the Sat night special not exist? Was HRC Rossi years not the best? Ok, I'll give you the switch, he won on an inferior bike, but was he not enjoying special Michelins on that lessor Yamaha? True, Stoner has not won since, makes you wonder where the tire cues are coming from, but as you say, that is just speculation on my part. So I'll concede, but not the advantage regarding the Sat night special, that was real. And HRC being the best during Rossi years, that was real too.
Problem is bro… Both 'Advantages' were accessible to many other Riders.
2000 Honda: Demon Vimto Honda, Emerson Honda Pons, Maxon Dee Cee Jeans, Nastro Azzurro Honda, Queroseno Racing Team, Repsol YPF Honda Team, Sabre Sport, Tecmas Honda Elf.
2001 Honda: Arie Molenaar Racing, Dee Cee Jeans Racing Team, Nastro Azzurro Honda, Repsol YPF Honda Team, Shell Advance Honda, West Honda Pons.
2002 Honda: Fortuna Honda Gresini, Kanemoto Racing, Pramac Honda Racing Team, Repsol Honda Team, Team HRC, West Honda Pons.
2003 Honda: Camel Pramac Pons Honda, Pramac Honda, Repsol Honda Team, Telefonica Movistar Honda.
Michelin Over Night Special within the Rule Book and accessible to many other Riders.
You and Lex are talking bollocks. Lex states Rossi has the rules changed to suit himself, Another Lex and jumkie fantasy, not fact just fantasy from the haters who have no proof, just slander. The haters will say rossi had the best bike when he was on the honda then in another thread claim when rossi switched to yam the bike was the best or at least as good as the honda. See the contradiction ? Then they will slag off rossi fans who claim the 07 duc was the best bike and that's why stoner won. They ignore the fact he has not won since. I dunno why i bother with this place sometimes, it's like talking to a brick wall and having to repeat yourself year in year out.
I think Jumkie and I claim that Rossi is the GOAT, but we understand that the guy is a political animal who is perfectly happy to use the boardroom and the press office to secure his most recent titles rather than settling things on the track. I don't think either of us has said that the 2004 Yamaha was as good as the 2004 Honda.
Rossi deserves a lot of criticism since 2006 b/c he's been using the press office and his political ties to people in Dorna to pressure the GPC to change the sport which has lead to his resurgence. When people use politics to win sporting contests, it ruins the sport and the spectacle of competition.
