Stoner: Rossi is riding well

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 24 2010, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That bubble is quite impenetrable.........results....meh!

It is quite debatable who has given Rossi the most trouble over the years, and once again it all depends on your POV.

09 gave us 4-5 good dogfights, many more than 08 or 07. So this could be seen as a much more intense competition, and I think it really showed on both VR and JL. Being on the same machine added rocket fuel to this.

08 we only really had Laguna, and CS was the man feeling the heat. It became a battle of the mind rather than an on track rumble.

Of course Stoner in 2007 was unstoppable, but there were only 2 races that year which could have been called a real dogfight-and Rossi's Kamikaze moves in China were just entertainment with most knowing he could never beat that missile on those straights. And such was the superiority of that Marlboro boys that year it wasn't really a contest at all. So of course there was plenty of trouble, but real pressure racing? Not IMO. The Taxman didn't help either

06 was a much different story, with as with 2007 to a certain degree, much VR's battle was actually with the reliability of the M1 and the hit and miss performance of the Michelins, combined with Nicky's determination and consistency. Of course this is highly debatable, but to the detractors (i know your fingers are burning to get to the keyboard) I can only offer that by 08, once the M1 and rubber was better sorted-the results speak for themselves.
I believe Sete and Max gave VR many more closer quarters dogfights especially in 01 and 04-05, this of course could be partly contributed to the nature of the machines back then. But VR was of course much younger back then and in 2009 he seemed to feel the pinch quite a bit more, maybe its age-who knows?

IMO Sete and Jorge have given VR the most trouble on track.
If you don't consider 20 race wins to be significant competition for valentino some might argue that you inhabit a bubble which is fairly impenetrable regardless of results yourself. I am not aware of any asterixes in the records for wins which did not involve a dog-fight, and stoner is not obliged to slow down to engage in same particularly on a bike which was possibly designed for raw power rather than handling.

No excuses for stoner in 2008 and 2009, ditto for rossi in 2006 and 2007. Rossi is a pronounced favourite for the 2010 championship as he has been in most years, but stoner has shown he can hold it together for a whole season under pressure from rossi to win a championship, if as a front-runner on the occasion he did manage it; lorenzo has not. Stoner needs to deliver this year after not doing so for the last 2 years, and a 3rd troubled season whether due to genuine health/injury concerns or not will definitely make him the unreliable commodity you obviously already consider him to be. He did still demonstrate rossi-competitive pace on a significant number of occasions in 2008 and 2009.

As someone said, we'll see, that is why they have the races. I certainly made no argument against rossi coming back to win further championships after his two relatively bad seasons in 2006 and 2007.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 23 2010, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>its a reality stew in the pot, help yourself to a bowl dude...plenty made for the rest also.





And I guess you've slept through the past 10 years then.
IF Stoner wouldnt have pussied out sure he might have made a race of things till the end...but he didn't, his tummy hurt so he needed 3 months off....... even Lorenzo when he had two broken legs went out on track... Or how bout Capi and Marco, back a few years ago? member that Catalun crash? Or were you napping? They man'd up and rode for whatever points they could..I respect that, tougher than nails, true balls...If you were awake during Rossi's two non championship seasons you'd know why he lost..and it wasnt cause of a ......l infection...1, .... bike and tires all year, Nick won, he was the best that year..2, Slow ... 800 Yam, Stoner took advantage with the fastest bike and took it, he rode the .... outa the bike, he was the best that year.. past 2 seasons? coulda woulda shoulda, Stoner folded like a lawn chair under the pressure. period.

have a bowl of soup

The beauty of it is that they are here this year and do you agree or not no matter what has happened in the past that these two are it? No one else is going to win the WC this year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 24 2010, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you don't consider 20 race wins to be significant competition for valentino some might argue that you inhabit a bubble which is fairly impenetrable regardless of results yourself. I am not aware of any asterixes in the records for wins which did not involve a dog-fight, and stoner is not obliged to slow down to engage in same particularly on a bike which was possibly designed for raw power rather than handling.

No excuses for stoner in 2008 and 2009, ditto for rossi in 2006 and 2007. Rossi is a pronounced favourite for the 2010 championship as he has been in most years, but stoner has shown he can hold it together for a whole season under pressure from rossi to win a championship, if as a front-runner on the occasion he did manage it; lorenzo has not. Stoner needs to deliver this year after not doing so for the last 2 years, and a 3rd troubled season whether due to genuine health/injury concerns or not will definitely make him the unreliable commodity you obviously already consider him to be. He did still demonstrate rossi-competitive pace on a significant number of occasions in 2008 and 2009.

As someone said, we'll see, that is why they have the races. I certainly made no argument against rossi coming back to win further championships after his two relatively bad seasons in 2006 and 2007.

Never said that CS wasn't significant competition for VR, though the majority of these victories were of course in 2007 and CS has also shown that he can't hold it together for the past 2 seasons under the pressure from VR and others......and how much pressure VR felt in 2007 no-one but him could know, to me it seemed as though VR knew that he couldn't beat the CS/Duck/BS package in 2007 and resided to that fact, in direct comparison in 2009 more of the races were on the razors edge with JL.

But its a very big call to say that CS has been VR's toughest competitor....and I simply don't think he has been or will be.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 24 2010, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Never said that CS wasn't significant competition for VR, though the majority of these victories were of course in 2007 and CS has also shown that he can't hold it together for the past 2 seasons under the pressure from VR and others......and how much pressure VR felt in 2007 no-one but him could know, to me it seemed as though VR knew that he couldn't beat the CS/Duck/BS package in 2007 and resided to that fact, in direct comparison in 2009 more of the races were on the razors edge with JL.

But its a very big call to say that CS has been VR's toughest competitor....and I simply don't think he has been or will be.

You quote the CS/Duck/BS package as an excuse why Rossi was beaten and a reason why Stoner is not the main competition but yet you fail to acknowledge the Yamaha which is the best bike on the grid developed by Burgess (approx 15 WC's and Rossi 12,679 WC's) has anything to do with JL's competitiveness in 2009.

As far as most of Stoner's 20 wins being in 2007 well yes 10 of them were but the other 10 were in 2008 and 2009. How many wins does JL have over his 2 years in the sport?

JL did well in 2009 because of the bike. Chuck him on any other bike on the grid and he would not have the less than a handful of wins he does.

It is an easy and a small call to say Stoner and Rossi are the main challengers for the 2010 title. You just are not capable of admitting it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 24 2010, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Never said that CS wasn't significant competition for VR, though the majority of these victories were of course in 2007 and CS has also shown that he can't hold it together for the past 2 seasons under the pressure from VR and others......and how much pressure VR felt in 2007 no-one but him could know, to me it seemed as though VR knew that he couldn't beat the CS/Duck/BS package in 2007 and resided to that fact, in direct comparison in 2009 more of the races were on the razors edge with JL.

But its a very big call to say that CS has been VR's toughest competitor....and I simply don't think he has been or will be.
I have to admit I can't compete with you when you turn to non-aristotlean logic, but the substance of your argument seems to be that stoner's wins don't count as much as gibernau's or lorenzo's because many of them were by large margins, an interesting philosophical position. Also as TP 70 has pointed out, in the 2 years of 2008 and 2009 when he apparently abjectly failed and succumbed to pressure stoner still won 10 races, more than gibernau's career total and significantly more than lorenzo in the same period.

Please remind me of any premier class championships won by rossi from a position of a significant points deficit mid-season such as stoner faced in 2008 when he conceivably did have a bike disadvantage in the early part of the season, not that this is any excuse nor one that stoner has made. The succumbing to pressure in 2009 theory relies on your expert diagnosis made remotely without interviewing let alone examining the patient, and discounts quite a number of expert australian physicians several of whom are known personally by me to be of the highest repute.

Well for what its worth another paddock regular has come forth singing Stoners praises:


From Crash ( which is probably from somewhere else )

"The man himself might rate it as something of a tall order, but Casey Stoner is the rider to dethrone record-breaking MotoGP legend Valentino Rossi in 2010, reckons Steve Parrish – and in so doing reclaim for both himself and Ducati the glory that was last theirs three years ago.

Last year was a tough one for Stoner, as illness forced him to miss the mid-season Czech Republic, US and San Marino rounds on the premier class calendar – costing the Australian all hope of bidding for glory, as back-to-back late-season victories on home turf at Phillip Island and at Sepang in Malaysia went to demonstrate what perhaps might have been.

Having been outpaced by Yamaha arch-rival and nine-time world champion Rossi for two consecutive days during pre-season testing at Sepang three weeks ago, Stoner hinted that he will have his work cut out to topple the seemingly invincible Italian over the course of the coming months [see separate story – click here] – but former rider and truck racer-turned-BBC MotoGP commentator Parrish reckons if anybody can give 'The Doctor' a dose of his own medicine in 2010 and future campaigns, it is the 24-year-old from Queensland.

“Yeah, I think they can,” the 1978 British 500cc Champion told Crash.net Radio, when asked if Rossi's challengers can get the better of him this year. “I've actually gone for Casey this season, only because I just keep thinking (in relation to Rossi), nine world championships and 31-years-old, how long can you carry on being that brilliant? He is the greatest of all time as far as I'm concerned. I get a lot of stick from people saying 'Ah, but what about Mike Hailwood?', but in my generation Valentino Rossi has been the greatest. It won't surprise me if he goes out there and wins another [title], but it must just get harder and harder for him every year.

“I'm looking forward to seeing the top four – they call them the 'Aliens' out there – and I just hope that Dani Pedrosa doesn't hurt himself at the start of the season, that Casey doesn't get sick, which I'm sure he won't, and it really should be a great battle. I think those four bikes are fairly evenly-matched; I don't know who's done the best work over the winter months, but I don't see any big surprises – it's all evolutions really. Ducati have changed the firing order a little bit, and Yamaha have altered this and Honda have probably gone away and done a bit. It should be very good between Dani Pedrosa, Casey, Jorge [Lorenzo] and Valentino Rossi – and let's see who can be the one to pick up the pace and join those four.”

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/157111/1/...ys_parrish.html

mind you they have got it wrong before, so Imore thinkStoner himself's comments could be more realistic ..... wait till halfway through the season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 24 2010, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have to admit I can't compete with you when you turn to non-aristotlean logic, but the substance of your argument seems to be that stoner's wins don't count as much as gibernau's or lorenzo's because many of them were by large margins, an interesting philosophical position. Also as TP 70 has pointed out, in the 2 years of 2008 and 2009 when he apparently abjectly failed and succumbed to pressure stoner still won 10 races, more than gibernau's career total and significantly more than lorenzo in the same period.

Please remind me of any premier class championships won by rossi from a position of a significant points deficit mid-season such as stoner faced in 2008 when he conceivably did have a bike disadvantage in the early part of the season, not that this is any excuse nor one that stoner has made. The succumbing to pressure in 2009 theory relies on your expert diagnosis made remotely without interviewing let alone examining the patient, and discounts quite a number of expert australian physicians several of whom are known personally by me to be of the highest repute.
I know you lot will never see it any other so this is as usual pointless.....but again my point was relative pressure on vr, and for a number of reasons IMO jl pushed him harder last year than anyone, that's it, I never brought up illness, you did, and you like to always reference that.....see it the way you want to,

I think most in the motogp field would adamantly disagree with your assessment of the ducati in early 2008, it didn't look like a vastly inferior machine in qatar that year, they lost it on setup for a couple of rounds then came out blitzing again.......until laguna, what happened there and after you can't blame on the bike

stoner is amongst the best riders in the world in motogp but on current form and consistency I cannot place him in the top two, which is the original argument

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 25 2010, 05:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner is amongst the best riders in the world in motogp but on current form and consistency I cannot place him in the top two, which is the original argument
WTF Funny how you like to use stats to bolster your Vale arguments but now, when Casey is, statistically, neck and neck with Vale in the 800 era and Jorge is statistically irrelevant, you revert to your (very) "humble opinion"!!

Alien Ranking:
1. Rossi/Stoner - its a toss-up
2. Jorge
3. Dani

Until further notice!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 24 2010, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know you lot will never see it any other so this is as usual pointless.....but again my point was relative pressure on vr, and for a number of reasons IMO jl pushed him harder last year than anyone, that's it, I never brought up illness, you did, and you like to always reference that.....see it the way you want to,

I think most in the motogp field would adamantly disagree with your assessment of the ducati in early 2008, it didn't look like a vastly inferior machine in qatar that year, they lost it on setup for a couple of rounds then came out blitzing again.......until laguna, what happened there and after you can't blame on the bike

stoner is amongst the best riders in the world in motogp but on current form and consistency I cannot place him in the top two, which is the original argument
This is pointless, but what else are we going to do on the forum until we get some actual racing?

I don't think an engine problem so significant that it required junking of the 2008 engine and returning to the 2007 engine after a detonation and the bike being unrideable even by stoner in spain and portugal qualifies as a minor set-up problem and is at least as significant as the yamaha chatter problems which afflicted rossi for the first half of 2006, not that as I have said previously either was any excuse or any reason to detract from the performance of their respective competitors at the time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 24 2010, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner is amongst the best riders in the world in motogp but on current form and consistency I cannot place him in the top two, which is the original argument

Talpa, you really are a total goose! Michaels logic is irrefutable. You keep introducing your own dubious subjective parameters that suit the result you wish to gain.

If you want to look at a real world indication of who Rossi,s greatest greatest adversary is, check out the betting agency odds........

http://www.oddschecker.com/motor-sport/mot...ship/win-market

You will see that ,not only is Casey ranked above Lorenzo by every agency, but that close to half have Stoner at the SAME odds as Rossi! Surely blasphemy!

Give up while you are behind young Talpa.
Oh Talpa , what is to become of you.......................

Funny thing is, that I keep getting images of Barnaby Joyce when I read your stuff (ups)

This is a normal but positive thing, a top rider gives kredit to another one, but the good form of

Rossi in last test cant be an indication for the whole year.


at least it was better than his last interview, where he spoke about Laguna Seca again.

Casey is the main competator to Vale, at least on the paper, since he has won more races

from him than others, and i think Rossi has more fair for Casey than Horhey or Dani. But they

both know that they cant close their eyes on Lorenzo's and Pedrosa's form ieder.



what they have won in the past, cant win them championships in the future, and so they have

to start all over again in Qatar 2010.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rossiofsky @ Feb 25 2010, 05:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is a normal but positive thing, a top rider gives kredit to another one, but the good form of

Rossi in last test cant be an indication for the whole year.


at least it was better than his last interview, where he spoke about Laguna Seca again.

Casey is the main competator to Vale, at least on the paper, since he has won more races

from him than others, and i think Rossi has more fair for Casey than Horhey or Dani. But they

both know that they cant close their eyes on Lorenzo's and Pedrosa's form ieder.



what they have won in the past, cant win them championships in the future, and so they have

to start all over again in Qatar 2010.
No disagreement, and as barry said on the other thread I would think rossi should be a more pronounced favourite than he is with some bookmakers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Feb 25 2010, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Talpa, you really are a total goose! Michaels logic is irrefutable. You keep introducing your own dubious subjective parameters that suit the result you wish to gain.

If you want to look at a real world indication of who Rossi,s greatest greatest adversary is, check out the betting agency odds........

http://www.oddschecker.com/motor-sport/mot...ship/win-market

You will see that ,not only is Casey ranked above Lorenzo by every agency, but that close to half have Stoner at the SAME odds as Rossi! Surely blasphemy!

Give up while you are behind young Talpa.
Oh Talpa , what is to become of you.......................

Funny thing is, that I keep getting images of Barnaby Joyce when I read your stuff (ups)

Oh.....just when I thought you may be winning the fight with Dementia, here we go again.

I'm not a betting man and odds have never swayed my opinion on anything-as they don't for most intelligent people-bookmakers are there to make money, enough said. If you had of laid your cash on Stoner in the last 2 years, and no doubt he had similar odds back then, well of course you would have lost your money-not too clever to reference this as a basis for argument.

Not reading the posts again Bunny- the one guilty introducing Dubious Subjective Parameters is actually Mick, the argument has always been about the top two riders in Motogp-CURRENTLY-by the standings in the Championship as of November 2009, and who has put the most pressure on VR. How one may have performed if one was not off sick is completely irrelevant.

I mentioned Sete as also being near to VR's strongest competition to date as they had some great ding-dong battles-particularly in 04-05. He didn't take wins off VR, but he certainly put up many 'GRRLEAT BATTLLES'. This of course can get lost in the vaults of many with recent years dominating the memory banks.

Someone with more smarts would have already realized that being called wrong by such an advert Stoner Bopper is just like 'water off a ducks back' to me. (Like the Colloquialism-I did it just for you ) On such a matter as this an opinion is just that.

So silly furry myth creature the goose here seems to be you, again.

The following is not odds placed on the outcome of the 2010 title by bookmakers based on.........well........who knows-opinions maybe? But actual championship points results from the 2 previous and most relevant seasons.

2008
VR -373
CS-280

Points differential 93

2009
VR-306
JL- 261

Points differential 45

For the slower ones, Jorge Lorenzo has the current form and consistency to be VR's main Rival for 2010. Jorge Lorenzo pushed VR harder last year than he was pushed the year before, he took less wins but he took more points away, which=more pressure on VR's championship campaign. Jorge Lorenzo deserves the credit for achieving this and he also deserves to be called the second best rider in Motogp-CURRENTLY.

How JL goes in 2010 without a hand from the other side of the garage is completely unpredictable, hopefully he wont need it and we'll get some more brawls like last years Catalunya and Germany.

Of course this is all IMO.........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 25 2010, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course this is all IMO.........

Yes and it is your opinion which is constantly shown to be complete fantasy.....!

I'm not a betting man and odds have never swayed my opinion on anything -Talpa


I don,t bet either, but when you have all these large organisations that have a lot of money, and probably their very existence, riding on how the season pans out, then I think any intelligent person would pay attention to what they think will happen.

In an alternative universe , where betting agencies base their odds on Talpas opinions, it would be seen that their existence would be fleeting and difficult to observe.

I will name this "Talpas Rule" , whereby betting agencies are used as examples of matter in quantum theory, or maybe a modern example of " Schrodingers Cat".....where Talpa,s opinion /(observation) renders Stoners ability to challenge invisible(dead) . ie Talpas opinion is the observation and Stoner is the now deceased cat.

You have much to learn grasshopper..........................

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Feb 25 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not reading the posts again Bunny- the one guilty introducing Dubious Subjective Parameters is actually Mick, the argument has always been about the top two riders in Motogp-CURRENTLY-by the standings in the Championship as of November 2009, and who has put the most pressure on VR. How one may have performed if one was not off sick is completely irrelevant.

I mentioned Sete as also being near to VR's strongest competition to date as they had some great ding-dong battles-particularly in 04-05. He didn't take wins off VR, but he certainly put up many 'GRRLEAT BATTLLES'. This of course can get lost in the vaults of many with recent years dominating the memory banks.

bookmakers based on.........well........who knows-opinions maybe? But actual championship points results from the 2 previous and most relevant seasons.

2008
VR -373
CS-280

Points differential 93

2009
VR-306
JL- 261

Points differential 45

For the slower ones, Jorge Lorenzo has the current form and consistency to be VR's main Rival for 2010. Jorge Lorenzo pushed VR harder last year than he was pushed the year before, he took less wins but he took more points away, which=more pressure on VR's championship campaign. Jorge Lorenzo deserves the credit for achieving this and he also deserves to be called the second best rider in Motogp-CURRENTLY.

How JL goes in 2010 without a hand from the other side of the garage is completely unpredictable, hopefully he wont need it and we'll get some more brawls like last years Catalunya and Germany.

Of course this is all IMO.........
You don't think the 3rd and 4th "aliens" winning 3 races in 2008 but 6 races in 2009 had any effect on the points differential?

I have not in this or any other thread argued that stoner's illness is any excuse for his performance last year, but have argued at considerable length against you and others who contend with absolute confidence that he did not and could not have had an illness, but rather had succumbed to "pressure", oddly immediately after he had beaten both rossi and lorenzo in difficult conditions which seemed to require rather a lot of bravery on his part. You on the other hand seem able to find numerous reasons why casey stoner's 10 victories and world championship in 2007 don't count.

Lorenzo was certainly the second best rider in 2009 (I have never contended otherwise) and will remain so until and unless after a considerable number of races a new pecking order is established this year. I have considerable respect for both lorenzo and gibernau, as winners of 5 and 9 motogp races, particularly against rossi, as I do for elias winning even one, but continue to fail to see how stoner deserves less or no respect for winning 20 races and a world championship.

As your man rossi has said himself, jorge's weakness is his propensity for mistakes, and he made too many even last year let alone in 2008 to seriously challenge valentino rossi for a world championship. He is young and may well develop further, and obviously has an extremely adequate amount of time in prospect to possibly surpass casey stoner in overall premier class career terms. I hate to break the news to you, but sete gibernau imo does not have sufficient time left to do so.

Even BM speaks some sense in this tread.
1. Rossi
2. Stoner
3. JLo
4. Pedrosa

It's not that hard to figure out. As some has said, just check the odds. Allthough THAT has been said many times before, and as now some just refused to listen

stoner will be champion this year no problem whatsoever

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Feb 25 2010, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not a betting man and odds have never swayed my opinion on anything -Talpa


I don,t bet either, but when you have all these large organisations that have a lot of money, and probably their very existence, riding on how the season pans out, then I think any intelligent person would pay attention to what they think will happen.

In an alternative universe , where betting agencies base their odds on Talpas opinions, it would be seen that their existence would be fleeting and difficult to observe.

I will name this "Talpas Rule" , whereby betting agencies are used as examples of matter in quantum theory, or maybe a modern example of " Schrodingers Cat".....where Talpa,s opinion /(observation) renders Stoners ability to challenge invisible(dead) . ie Talpas opinion is the observation and Stoner is the now deceased cat.

You have much to learn grasshopper..........................

Wow......so your saying that my opinion that JL, who took 4 wins an 8 podiums last year and finished a very close second to VR-via the points system (which they have set up to determine the outcome of the championship), deserves to be called the second best rider in Motogp, is complete fantasy and has its origins in an alternate universe??

I hate to break it to you Dumber and Dumber, but betting agencies very existence depends on people losing money from gambling. Do you think because they are a large organization that they can predict things like Stoners Illness or Lorenzo's crashes? This is very entertaining.....

Did you actually watch Motogp last year at all????!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA

If you did (and maybe you should) you would see that my opinion is based on results and not some other form of magical hocus pocus designed to extract dollars from the gambling public.

Now at no point at all have I said where Stoner falls in the list, I have just stated that he is not in the top two.......so to answer another one of your dubious subjective fictional points invented in a pathetic attempt to ridicule my argument, CS IMO is far from a dead cat but third in the world of road racing.

If I have much to learn then you must be looking forward to your first day at Pre-School

The whole idea of odds is you offer the lowest odds for the entity you think has the best chance of winning. If they thought JL had a better chance of winning next season than CS then he would have lower odds. Unlike you they look at the circumstances of previous results and look at potential for the future events. Based on this they think that CS has twice the chance of winning that JL has and nearly equal chance of winning as VR. This is so bloody simple that it shows how truly deluded the world you live in is.

Even some of the other boppers are starting to call you deluded.