Stoner critical of Hayden

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I joined in early 07 before the season started, i didnt know who this Jumkie character was, but damn he needed help.I had browsed the forum for a while and never bothered to join until i saw the fight he was in after Hayden won the title. It was like someone had dropped a Jew into the center of Mecca. As it turned out, he had plenty of acid on his tongue to take care of himself, but i joined in for moral support Over the years,there has been , a few whacked out fans of new upstarts,but none will ever get as whacky as the Rossi horde back in 06-07.
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Pendejo
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Before I add my thoughts to this thread, as I've been very busy and dealing with a few issues, which have prevented me from immersing myself in the post race media debrief, I'd like to ask, has there been a report that states Stoner's quote regarding Nicky was a "misquote" or has a 'clearification' been issued, or a genuine apology by Stoner?
 
Before I add my thoughts to this thread, as I've been very busy and dealing with a few issues, which have prevented me from immersing myself in the post race media debrief, I'd like to ask, has there been a report that states Stoner's quote regarding Nicky was a "misquote" or has a 'clearification' been issued, or a genuine apology by Stoner?

No. Last report i head was stoner calling farmboy a pendejo
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Before I add my thoughts to this thread, as I've been very busy and dealing with a few issues, which have prevented me from immersing myself in the post race media debrief, I'd like to ask, has there been a report that states Stoner's quote regarding Nicky was a "misquote" or has a 'clearification' been issued, or a genuine apology by Stoner?



I was at Stoner, not at Hayden ...



Stoner was pissed off at Hayden for blocking him (as he always is when other riders get in his way). When he said Hayden needs to stop waiting for Rossi to fix the bike, that wasn't an attack on Hayden. It was "dude, you know how Bologna operates, no point hanging around for them to fix the problem, it's never gonna happen. Just ride the damn thing, you're fast enough."



He did get in an attack on JB, though, saying that JB should have kept his mouth shut until he knew the reality of the situation at Ducati.
 
I was at Stoner, not at Hayden ...



Stoner was pissed off at Hayden for blocking him (as he always is when other riders get in his way). When he said Hayden needs to stop waiting for Rossi to fix the bike, that wasn't an attack on Hayden. It was "dude, you know how Bologna operates, no point hanging around for them to fix the problem, it's never gonna happen. Just ride the damn thing, you're fast enough."



He did get in an attack on JB, though, saying that JB should have kept his mouth shut until he knew the reality of the situation at Ducati.

Thanks for your reply. Kropo, my question is specifically on Stoner's quote accusing Hayden of 'intentionally' blocking him. That is to say, Stoner questioning Nicky's integrity. Do you have any updates or insight to offer?
 
I was at Stoner, not at Hayden ...



Stoner was pissed off at Hayden for blocking him (as he always is when other riders get in his way). When he said Hayden needs to stop waiting for Rossi to fix the bike, that wasn't an attack on Hayden. It was "dude, you know how Bologna operates, no point hanging around for them to fix the problem, it's never gonna happen. Just ride the damn thing, you're fast enough."



He did get in an attack on JB, though, saying that JB should have kept his mouth shut until he knew the reality of the situation at Ducati.

Dont listen to this "spin doctor" jum. Stoner was dissin farmboy. Time for the bandwagon jumping haydenettes to turn their backs on the lactose kid
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Kropo, this statement here:



"I could understand if he accidentally got in my way but that was blatantly on purpose and that frustrated me a fair bit coming from a rider like Nicky, who I had a fair bit of respect for, so it's disappointing." Casey Stoner



Has Casey retracted or clarified this statement?
 
Kropo, this statement here:







Has Casey retracted or clarified this statement?

Nope. But the emphasis on "had" is entirely specious. He first said "He's normally been a pretty good rider, pretty sensible, but he looked round and saw me coming, wanted to get a tow off me and completely blocked my line."



Edited to add: emphasizing "had" there is the kind of thing you would expect from a pre-menstrual woman, who has just asked you which dress she should be wearing to go out in. Whichever one you choose, you lose. Remember, these guys (all of them) are asked questions, and just respond, and get their tenses and grammar completely ...... up, just as you do in normal speech. To emphasize "had" there is to make a mountain out of a molehill. After all, Stoner was pretty clear about his anger at Hayden for blocking his line. Why get pissed off about the imaginary tiny stuff when there's plenty of major ammo elsewhere?
 
Nope. But the emphasis on "had" is entirely specious. He first said "He's normally been a pretty good rider, pretty sensible, but he looked round and saw me coming, wanted to get a tow off me and completely blocked my line."





So the answer is NO. Casey has not retracted this part of his statement, where he indicts Nicky saying "that was blatantly on purpose".



Besides having to deal with more pressing issues, I had purposely avoided this thread. When I flew back from Silverstone, while waiting for a connection, I saw these comments by Stoner. My first reaction was, ‘I hope this is a misquote’, and thought, I should wait a few days to see if he retracts, because the nature of his statement is so extremely outrageous and out of line. In the absence of any redress, recanting, clarification, or profuse apology, then, I'm very disappointed in Casey Stoner. I think he's lost his mind and lost his way.



I could understand if he said Nicky screwed up his lap and be angry about it, but he went so far as to say it was 'intentional', and qualified it by leaving no doubt. Casey left us no room for interpretation by saying, he could understand if Nicky had done it “unintentionally”, so I think he made it pretty clear. This is an indictment on Nicky Hayden’s integrity. And for this, there can be no glossing over it. This makes me question myself and the perception I had of Casey. It seems so out of character, but regardless, no pass can be issued unless he were to say he was misquoted or apologize for it. I know he won’t lose any sleep over my perceptions of him. And he’s told us often enough, he doesn’t care what people think, though I don’t believe it because us humans have an actual “need” to be admired. But it’s disappoint on several fronts, especially that he chose to attack with out a doubt, one of the most honest honorable guys on the grid--ever. Which makes his indictment all that more shocking, bizarre, and despicable. Who’s he gonna go after next, Mother Teresa?



We’ve all said things we didn’t mean, but most of the time it was in specifically in the very heat of the moment, I don’t think this even qualifies as that. There is no way he could judge "intent". And by the time the journalist got to him, the ‘moment’ had passed and cerebral reasoning should have began to take hold of his tongue.



I don’t think he even had a verbal outburst in the mdia toward Randy DePuniet, who actually put him in dire danger. This was more a matter of screwing up his fast lap. Yes, he lashed out and tapped Randy, but he didn’t later question DePuniet’s honor & integrity. It was fine to question Randy’s ‘presence of mind’ while on the track, but not that Randy had ‘intentionally’ tried to cause him danger, right? Its interesting, because Rossi's torpedo of him, though not "intentional” in the sense that VR meant to ‘crash’ seems to speak more about what is "intent"; in that the race move was clearly intentional, though it had gone wrong. Casey remained rather muted on his indictment of Rossi, even declaring it a mere “racing incident”. Yet here, by comparison, an infinitely milder incident, he issues the harshest of indictments—and to whom. So for him to go after Nicky’s integrity is way out of line. This is not "a mountain out of a molehill" incident, as some here try to assign it. Attempting to gloss it over, as "Casey being Casey" is unacceptable to me because in my estimation this is not mere ‘whining’. Incidentally, I don’t believe Stoner has ‘whined’ in the past any more or less than the 3-5 divas that surround him. In my estimation, when people have in the past described him as “whining”, it was actually a legitimate criticism or grievance by Casey. There has been lots of writing on this thread, but most of it has been irrelevant and tangential. It’s a simple as this: Stoner questioned Nicky's integrity as a man; Casey is completely wrong and out of order! Not only is he wrong, but its awful unprofessional. It’s up there with Rossi's diva antics. Also, this specific outburst is not about his frustration with Ducati, as some here erroneously try to assign it. It doesn’t matter if Ducati murdered his entire family, this has zero to do with Nicky, so that line of argument is simply illogical. There is no excuse for this behavior and statement, as he had time to settle down. I can understand the hand wave in anger, because this is simply a human moment of frustration. But his statement to the media no les, is not one of a kneejerk reflex variety. Casey had time to get off the bike and accept a journalist inquiry. As I said, I'm very disappointed in him, as I thought he was different and above this sort of ........ usually employed by the more flamboyant & mind-game savvy elements of the grid.



Casey really ...... up on this one. The right thing for him to do would be to apologize to Nicky. There is no way around this. You can angle it, spin it, explain it, and go back to his childhood up bringing all we want, but the fact of the matte is, he need to say he mis-spoke and apologize like a man. This is the Casey Stoner I thought I knew, and I hope he reads his own statement and cringes, then immediately calls Nicky to say, 'dude, I was a total ....... to you man, sorry bro.'
 
So the answer is NO. Casey has not retracted this part of his statement, where he indicts Nicky saying "that was blatantly on purpose".



Besides having to deal with more pressing issues, I had purposely avoided this thread. When I flew back from Silverstone, while waiting for a connection, I saw these comments by Stoner. My first reaction was, ‘I hope this is a misquote’, and thought, I should wait a few days to see if he retracts, because the nature of his statement is so extremely outrageous and out of line. In the absence of any redress, recanting, clarification, or profuse apology, then, I'm very disappointed in Casey Stoner. I think he's lost his mind and lost his way.



So you're pissed he had a go at Nicky. Is that about the size of it?
 
I'm certainly not going to argue with you about Stoner. Anyone who doesn't realize the genius in that man's riding is oblivious to the sport. So I'm not sure who you're trying to convert. It'd be like a bopper trying to convince you that Rossi is actually better than Stoner right now. You're not going to buy it, are you? So you're just spewing for the sake of spewing. And what you've done in your spew is .... on a world champion. Nicky Hayden may not have had the greatest grand prix career ever, and his world championship may not have been as impressive as some other champions.



Fact is, however, he won it. And if he was such a mediocre rider, surely someone else could have beaten him. But no one did. And that includes Casey Stoner. Don't get too upset, like I said before, he's the most talented rider on the grid. But the fact remains, based on your preaches, you'd think Casey Stoner was a superhero capable of doing anything. And he didn't. I've always said being low down the Michelin pecking order is what did him in. But the facts are the facts. Nicky Hayden was consistently the best rider of 2006. You're entitled to have your own opinions about whatever you like, but the record books will always show him name first that season. Numbers Don't L1e.

The return of cscvaw?



Absolutely agree . Hayden was world champion in 2006, something that in most true sports (rather than sports entertainments) correlates with being the best in the world in that year. I won't even go into the obstacles that he had to overcome, including his team seemingly only wanting to win the championship if his team-mate was the winner. It also does not matter if he has performed less well since, whether because the change to a new formula didn't suit him, he hasn't had good enough equipment (none of his team-mates since then, including the winners of a motogp title and two 250 titles has won either) or if he only got it together for that one year, as is sometimes the way for sportsmen and sporting teams, all that matters is that he did win. If the miami heat win the next 5 nba titles it won't mean dallas didn't win the title this year, it will in fact make that title more valuable in my view.
 
Nail hit squarely on the head mate ! Problem is this Ad Hominem is always directed at one particular riders supporters.

I greatly respect you roger, but this is blatantly untrue, unless you have never read any of talpa's posts
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The worm has turned on here and elsewhere on the internet, with ridiculous anti-rossi posts well in the majority since stoner has been winning again as you say, although everyone knows that valentino still has far more fans. However this does not mean there wasn't an over whelming preponderance of ridiculous and sometimes quite nasty anti-stoner posts in previous years, not that this justifies the current situation. Good old chockmoose has provided the example for anyone who has forgotten, as do those blaming stoner for the current ducati's foibles.



Hopefully next year when (rather than if in my view) valentino is back to being on something competitive the cycle of payback will end, but I am not counting on it.
 
So the answer is NO. Casey has not retracted this part of his statement, where he indicts Nicky saying "that was blatantly on purpose".



Besides having to deal with more pressing issues, I had purposely avoided this thread. When I flew back from Silverstone, while waiting for a connection, I saw these comments by Stoner. My first reaction was, ‘I hope this is a misquote’, and thought, I should wait a few days to see if he retracts, because the nature of his statement is so extremely outrageous and out of line. In the absence of any redress, recanting, clarification, or profuse apology, then, I'm very disappointed in Casey Stoner. I think he's lost his mind and lost his way.



I could understand if he said Nicky screwed up his lap and be angry about it, but he went so far as to say it was 'intentional', and qualified it by leaving no doubt. Casey left us no room for interpretation by saying, he could understand if Nicky had done it “unintentionally”, so I think he made it pretty clear. This is an indictment on Nicky Hayden’s integrity. And for this, there can be no glossing over it. This makes me question myself and the perception I had of Casey. It seems so out of character, but regardless, no pass can be issued unless he were to say he was misquoted or apologize for it. I know he won’t lose any sleep over my perceptions of him. And he’s told us often enough, he doesn’t care what people think, though I don’t believe it because us humans have an actual “need” to be admired. But it’s disappoint on several fronts, especially that he chose to attack with out a doubt, one of the most honest honorable guys on the grid--ever. Which makes his indictment all that more shocking, bizarre, and despicable. Who’s he gonna go after next, Mother Teresa?



We’ve all said things we didn’t mean, but most of the time it was in specifically in the very heat of the moment, I don’t think this even qualifies as that. There is no way he could judge "intent". And by the time the journalist got to him, the ‘moment’ had passed and cerebral reasoning should have began to take hold of his tongue.



I don’t think he even had a verbal outburst in the mdia toward Randy DePuniet, who actually put him in dire danger. This was more a matter of screwing up his fast lap. Yes, he lashed out and tapped Randy, but he didn’t later question DePuniet’s honor & integrity. It was fine to question Randy’s ‘presence of mind’ while on the track, but not that Randy had ‘intentionally’ tried to cause him danger, right? Its interesting, because Rossi's torpedo of him, though not "intentional” in the sense that VR meant to ‘crash’ seems to speak more about what is "intent"; in that the race move was clearly intentional, though it had gone wrong. Casey remained rather muted on his indictment of Rossi, even declaring it a mere “racing incident”. Yet here, by comparison, an infinitely milder incident, he issues the harshest of indictments—and to whom. So for him to go after Nicky’s integrity is way out of line. This is not "a mountain out of a molehill" incident, as some here try to assign it. Attempting to gloss it over, as "Casey being Casey" is unacceptable to me because in my estimation this is not mere ‘whining’. Incidentally, I don’t believe Stoner has ‘whined’ in the past any more or less than the 3-5 divas that surround him. In my estimation, when people have in the past described him as “whining”, it was actually a legitimate criticism or grievance by Casey. There has been lots of writing on this thread, but most of it has been irrelevant and tangential. It’s a simple as this: Stoner questioned Nicky's integrity as a man; Casey is completely wrong and out of order! Not only is he wrong, but its awful unprofessional. It’s up there with Rossi's diva antics. Also, this specific outburst is not about his frustration with Ducati, as some here erroneously try to assign it. It doesn’t matter if Ducati murdered his entire family, this has zero to do with Nicky, so that line of argument is simply illogical. There is no excuse for this behavior and statement, as he had time to settle down. I can understand the hand wave in anger, because this is simply a human moment of frustration. But his statement to the media no les, is not one of a kneejerk reflex variety. Casey had time to get off the bike and accept a journalist inquiry. As I said, I'm very disappointed in him, as I thought he was different and above this sort of ........ usually employed by the more flamboyant & mind-game savvy elements of the grid.



Casey really ...... up on this one. The right thing for him to do would be to apologize to Nicky. There is no way around this. You can angle it, spin it, explain it, and go back to his childhood up bringing all we want, but the fact of the matte is, he need to say he mis-spoke and apologize like a man. This is the Casey Stoner I thought I knew, and I hope he reads his own statement and cringes, then immediately calls Nicky to say, 'dude, I was a total ....... to you man, sorry bro.'

I agree with you that nicky of all people on the grid deserves respect .



Stoner is stoner though, and he is what he is, which is far from perfect. I am sure this is not about nicky for stoner though (whether it should be different because it is nicky is another question), but about the whole issue of loitering on the racing line, which whatever else is a very genuine concern of his about which he is completely consistent regardless of who is involved . Has his personal crusade on this issue gone over the top/reached the point of obssession? Quite possibly.



The other comment about nicky developing the ducati was actually a compliment (as well as a dig at jb/rossi) as kropotkin says.
 
Yes, valentino rossi is now complaining about randy as well (I am a randy fan btw).



Again, you guys generalise your dislike of stoner to everyone disliking him. I accept that many rossi fans, and now valentino rossi himself, don't like him but strongly suspect that, like stoner's fans including me, he might enjoy this, particularly while he is beating rossi. Again, I would like to see your evidence for stoner being disliked by other riders, or even complaints from other riders concerning his behaviour or the safety of his riding. On the other hand, so as not to disappoint hawkdriver, I can list quite a number of riders who don't like valentino rossi, and several with whom he conducted long-term feuds. If you say this is largely because they didn't/don't like being beaten by him, I might agree with you. QED.



This also applies to stoner's relationship to his crew. Despite all you say, the incontrovertible facts are that they have stayed with him. I have seen some of the mainly hearsay stuff to which you refer, and have seen video evidence of him occasionally storming into the pits and shutting the doors. Again so as not to disappoint hawkdriver, I saw a report that valentino did this as recently as the last race week-end. I am not criticising valentino for this, the commonality I would see is both riding ducatis rather than being mistreaters of their crews. What I haven't seen from stoner, as opposed to rossi, is apportioning of one third or any other proportion of the blame when his performance is poor to his crew, apart from the guy who didn't warm the tyre prior to valencia 2009. He also never blamed ducati whilst under contract to them, in fact going out of his way to say he and not the bike was the problem in 2009. He has also recently said that jb insulting his crew was of much more concern to him than valentino insulting him, and if you google christian gabarrini his crew chief as I did yesterday to determine whther he had been with casey on the lcr aprilia as well as the lcr honda you will find testimonies to casey. If I was to speculate in a similar fashion to you I might postulate that casey may have positive attributes which outweigh negative ones, and that like golf caddies they accept occasional displays of temperament from highly-wound sportsmen as par for the course.

Not to disappoint me, please go back and see who the first one was to bring up a wrong by Rossi(it was you)to defend Casey. You braught him up and I showed you the difference, Casey completely disrespected Nicky with his comments while Rossi said he fell over because he missed a braking point due to finding a slow RDP on the track. He didn't disrespect Randy and berate him. Most of you Stoner fans are okay with his behaviour because "Rossi does it too". I also never once mentioned Casey's crew and I could care less about them or his relationship with them.



You go on to say "Not saying he was correct, and I actually said hayden deserved better from him at the time, but I suspect he considered Nicky to be dawdling on the racing line on that occasion as well."

Did Abraham deserve better treatment, did Aoyama deserve better treatment, RDP ? Notice a pattern, at least he didn't go on to insult these guys, well RDP got a love tap. This is your model of safety and being nothing but respectful of other riders...or is it okay because he only does it during practice? I know you don't like aggressive racing as we've already discussed that topic, but it's why I can't understand you going on about safety and respect. I'm not seeing any of that, maybe you don't like the aggressive racing because that's when Casey becomes the victim? I don't know... just calling it like I see it, and I do appreciate the fact that you didn't want to disappoint me, I hate being disappointed Michael.
 
So you're pissed he had a go at Nicky. Is that about the size of it?

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? Taking your reply at face value, it’s seems a bit odd, unless I missed the humor. Is that all you got out of my post Dave? I found it a bit strange that in my previous post you had emphasized, "had", regarding Casey’s potential change in his respect for Nicky, though it seems a rather tangential point to Casey calling Nicky out on his integrity. However, that was NOT the premise of my post, now was it? I had put in bold the part that Casey accuses Nicky of “intentionally” getting in his way, that is, calling into question his integrity. In my last take, to which you replied above, it seems you may have missed my point or grossly over simplified it. Allow me to present a scenario; you have your takes as a journalist and as a fan, have you have ever misspoke or have all your official takes been flawless? Now imagine if you did make a mistake and a fellow accused your misspeak as “intentional” for some dubious purpose (otherwise, what’s the point of saying a mistake is intentional), despite you saying there was nothing there to address, not only would your accuser be saying you lied, but he’d be calling out your integrity publicly. So then, if you ever make a mistake, even a typo, you’re fair game to be accused of “intentionally” misleading your readers, for some dubious unforeseen attempt perhaps. Rather absurd don’t you think? That’s what I’m saying Casey did. It’s well enough to say, ‘hey, I think Nicky screwed up my lap’; its quite another thing entirely to say, ‘hey, Nicky screwed up my lap on purpose, intentionally’ (which means he did that for some dubious purpose)…and say it publicly.
 
Not to disappoint me, please go back and see who the first one was to bring up a wrong by Rossi(it was you)to defend Casey. You braught him up and I showed you the difference, Casey completely disrespected Nicky with his comments while Rossi said he fell over because he missed a braking point due to finding a slow RDP on the track. He didn't disrespect Randy and berate him. Most of you Stoner fans are okay with his behaviour because "Rossi does it too". I also never once mentioned Casey's crew and I could care less about them or his relationship with them.



You go on to say "Not saying he was correct, and I actually said hayden deserved better from him at the time, but I suspect he considered Nicky to be dawdling on the racing line on that occasion as well."

Did Abraham deserve better treatment, did Aoyama deserve better treatment, RDP ? Notice a pattern, at least he didn't go on to insult these guys, well RDP got a love tap. This is your model of safety and being nothing but respectful of other riders...or is it okay because he only does it during practice? I know you don't like aggressive racing as we've already discussed that topic, but it's why I can't understand you going on about safety and respect. I'm not seeing any of that, maybe you don't like the aggressive racing because that's when Casey becomes the victim? I don't know... just calling it like I see it, and I do appreciate the fact that you didn't want to disappoint me, I hate being disappointed Michael.

This is fun, again you make my point for me, mirroring countless discussions with others of your ilk over the years.



When did I ever say rossi was in the wrong? My whole point was that neither stoner nor rossi was wrong to complain. As you apparently don't grasp my argument, I will exaggerate the invariable nature of such discussions .They usually start with something like "stoner is a prick because he wins races wearing red underwear ". When in reply I say that although perhaps biased as a stoner fan I don't see that wearing red underwear is a great problem, and that rossi also wears red underwear on occasion, the answer is "how dare you say that, and why do you hate rossi so much?."



I have no problem with aggressive racing as long as it is fair. The only incident in which I would contend rossi unequivocally rode unfairly is the gibernau attempted torpedo. The stoner take out involved stupidity rather than lack of fairness, but was demonstrably unsafe, not least to valentino (it could easily have resulted in valentino being ridden over if stoner had not reacted quickly), and in no way constituted rossi "kicking stoner's butt" as you put it, unless gp bike racing has morphed into wwe wrestling, which going by the posts on crashnet and the occasional one here it may have done.



As far as aggressive riding in general I defended simoncelli in his incident with pedrosa, which was not all one-sided apart from anything else, but I do think stoner in the same position would have shown better judgement than simoncelli (or pedrosa for that matter), and likely better control, which is why riders including rossi trust him in a dice and why you don't hear complaints about his riding in races. I am not aware of much criticism from the actual riders about these slow on the racing line practice incidents either for that matter, it mainly seems to be from disgruntled rossi fans on fan forums.



Again, if all you guys have left is criticising stoner's personality it says something, in particular that most of the previous criticism of him has been proven incorrect, although some are still trying to re-run the unfair bike advantage argument.
 

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