*SPOILERS* Jerez Rd3 Race Discussion

A strong win by Rossi, but it proves that he is not to be trusted. "I can,t win this race"

Did he really believe this to be the case, or was it mind games? Whatever the case, it proves that Jeremy Burgess is a genius and gives Vale an unfair advantage. Perhaps Rossi should have a weight penalty to compensate for JB being in his garage.

Despite the fact that Stoner seemed pretty happy, they have all got to be worried about Rossis early season lead.

And yeah..........the smell of fear is becoming a factor for his (Rossi,s) competitors if this keeps going on. They are all having to play catchup and with the gap Lorenzo has ,he may be pressured to crash again. Pedrosa is as far back but tends to ride within his abilities. Stoner is close enough not to panic yet, but that will change if Rossi has 20pts or more lead.

For me the ride of the race was Melandri. The Ducati must be totally different to ride than all the other bikes. Maybe Ducati can clone Casey???

I,m getting disappointed with Vermeulin. Perhaps he should follow Toseland back to superbikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ May 4 2009, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>......................

And yeah..........the smell of fear is becoming a factor for his (Rossi,s) competitors if this keeps going on. They are all having to play catchup and with the gap Lorenzo has ,he may be pressured to crash again. Pedrosa is as far back but tends to ride within his abilities. Stoner is close enough not to panic yet, but that will change if Rossi has 20pts or more lead.
.................
yup..thanks.. I can sit back and relax now!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ May 3 2009, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WEll done Vale. Another boring race YEEE HAAA!!! SUcks for Hayden but I think he must of still been hurting after the token crashanese did his worst. I would hope that with the championship points being so close now the season will provide us with some neat surprises. I have to say that Casey is one hell of a rider to make that DUC work like it does.

Why is it that when this happens to Stoner or Pedrosa the commentary is kind of: "They were just way too fast all weekend long for anybody to catch up", or "He is the fastest rider proven over and over". Obviously 'anti' Rossi, because now it was boring? Imagine a 10 second lead comming from fourth from anyone else, in fact, that's how boring 07 was in most cases!

On the Hayden / Ducati, it is pretty clear to me that this team can only focus on one rider / one bike. That kind of happens even to Honda as a much bigger factory / constructor, they set all their strength on one rider mostly, try and say they will supply others but the truth is they do not.

Analyzing Ducati's case:

2009 Stoner is their 100% focus and Hayden is suffering it, results match this from him and other Ducati riders, with Kallio's satellite just as high as 8th place, others on the ranks of 12, 13, 14, etc.

2008 Stoner was their 100% aim and Melandri matches my theory, 2009 for Melandri reinforces it. And with Elias and Guintoli pretty crappy too then.

2007 Stoner was their 100% aim and Capirossi was considered too old, even though he developed that bike he had a much crappier season. Barros, who had been very good sometimes on other bikes, and Hofman had a crappy season. Ducati aimed on their future younger rider and sales of course. Some may doubt this but here comes 2006.

2006 Capirossi was their 100% aim and had 3 wins and 4 second places in that season to back this theory up, he found himself in a position to fight for the Championship. Bayliss had a one hit wonder. But neither Gibernau, nor Hoffman or Cardoso even got to a Podium.

2005 Capirossi was their 100% aim and had 2 wins, bike was under big development and did get wins. Checa seemed to live at the beach then, and none knows who Rolfo is, even Itoh is more known.

2004 both Capirossi and Bayliss did not have good result, in fact, both had several DNFs. After 2003, this was a year to figure out which way the development of the bike was going to take. <u>But they knew they could not focus on more than one rider</u>, for their next season Capirossi was the aim. Of course we have WSB promises Hodgson and Xaus to get to this conclusion too.

2003 was their entrance year and got a lucky win courtesy of Capirossi at Catalunya, they could not believe it. They got 9 podiums from both riders, there was no Satellite team at the beginning from Ducati.

So I am completely convinced that Ducati only focuses on one rider / one bike, which explains completely every other rider results.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ May 3 2009, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Whatever the case, it proves that Jeremy Burgess is a genius and gives Vale an unfair advantage.

Then again Suppo and his 100% focus on one rider and getting a lot of resources for this gives Stoner an advantage over his own team mates.

I don,t believe that Ducati only focuses 100% on one rider. I think you are looking at the results and making the wrong assumptions. Stoner is performing markedly better than his teamate so it appears to some that he MUST be getting all the attention. That, I think, is a false assumption.
Ducati wants to do well in the teams and constructors awards and this necessitates more than one successful rider. When commenting on race results, Livo Suppo always mentions how Stoners teamate has performed , even if he has had a forgettable race. Ducati bent over backwards trying to help Capirossi by developing a bike with different engine configuration. That would seem an extravagant gesture if they were truly focussed on Stoner alone.
I have no doubt that the top performing rider in the team has their priority, but that is far removed from ignoring the other rider. It is a situation that no doubt exists in every team when one rider is clearly faster than the other.
In 2007 Stoner only became their focus after winning many races. I would be very surprised if Loris was not their main focus during the early stages of that season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ May 4 2009, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A strong win by Rossi, but it proves that he is not to be trusted. "I can,t win this race"

Did he really believe this to be the case, or was it mind games? Whatever the case, it proves that Jeremy Burgess is a genius and gives Vale an unfair advantage. Perhaps Rossi should have a weight penalty to compensate for JB being in his garage.

Despite the fact that Stoner seemed pretty happy, they have all got to be worried about Rossis early season lead.

And yeah..........the smell of fear is becoming a factor for his (Rossi,s) competitors if this keeps going on. They are all having to play catchup and with the gap Lorenzo has ,he may be pressured to crash again. Pedrosa is as far back but tends to ride within his abilities. Stoner is close enough not to panic yet, but that will change if Rossi has 20pts or more lead.

For me the ride of the race was Melandri. The Ducati must be totally different to ride than all the other bikes. Maybe Ducati can clone Casey???

I,m getting disappointed with Vermeulin. Perhaps he should follow Toseland back to superbikes.

Are you out of your ....... mind? Talk about sour grapes, go pull your head out of your ... man. Ya JB gave Vale such a massive advatage at qatar that casey could win by almost 8 secs . Whatever the case the best engineer in the world is not going to guarantee any win, once the bikes line up its all down to the rider

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ May 4 2009, 05:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don,t believe that Ducati only focuses 100% on one rider. I think you are looking at the results and making the wrong assumptions. Stoner is performing markedly better than his teamate so it appears to some that he MUST be getting all the attention. That, I think, is a false assumption.
Ducati wants to do well in the teams and constructors awards and this necessitates more than one successful rider. When commenting on race results, Livo Suppo always mentions how Stoners teamate has performed , even if he has had a forgettable race. Ducati bent over backwards trying to help Capirossi by developing a bike with different engine configuration. That would seem an extravagant gesture if they were truly focussed on Stoner alone.
I have no doubt that the top performing rider in the team has their priority, but that is far removed from ignoring the other rider. It is a situation that no doubt exists in every team when one rider is clearly faster than the other.
In 2007 Stoner only became their focus after winning many races. I would be very surprised if Loris was not their main focus during the early stages of that season.

I totally agree with you. Ducati try to help each of their riders as much as possible to ensure they are happy and can be successful. However, Ducati can only do so much for a rider eventually the rider has to adapt to some extent to characteristics of the bike.

Remember the 80/20 rule, 80% of motorcycle racing is the rider and 20% the bike....so we can't or shouldn't keep blaming Ducati for a former world champions poor results when their part and contribution is a small part of the package.

Lastly, several Hayden fanboys on this site said Nicky riding Style would suit the Ducati and now many of those same fanboys are now saying its Ducati thats the problem ....make your minds up, please.

I was hoping as Rossi cruised up to the back of Pedrosa that he would just hang around and .... with him for a while. Back in the day this was Rossi's style and probably the reason he has sooooo many fans because it made it fun. This was the perfect race for him to do that as 3rd was back far enough and there is no way that it even enters Rossi's head that Pedro can match him in a street fight. Stoner and Lorenzo are a different story and if I was Rossi I would check out on them but it was Pedro!

Come on Rossi don't just pull away play with them a bit!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ May 4 2009, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was hoping as Rossi cruised up to the back of Pedrosa that he would just hang around and .... with him for a while. Back in the day this was Rossi's style and probably the reason he has sooooo many fans because it made it fun. This was the perfect race for him to do that as 3rd was back far enough and there is no way that it even enters Rossi's head that Pedro can match him in a street fight. Stoner and Lorenzo are a different story and if I was Rossi I would check out on them but it was Pedro!

Come on Rossi don't just pull away play with them a bit!


And what if he had a similar mapping problem as in Japan

johnny.................I was joking for gods sake.

Do you really think anybody would seriously consider a weight penalty

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ May 4 2009, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>johnny.................I was joking for gods sake.

Do you really think anybody would seriously consider a weight penalty


My bad man. I tought you were having a Barrymachine moment

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ May 4 2009, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I totally agree with you. Ducati try to help each of their riders as much as possible to ensure they are happy and can be successful. However, Ducati can only do so much for a rider eventually the rider has to adapt to some extent to characteristics of the bike.

Remember the 80/20 rule, 80% of motorcycle racing is the rider and 20% the bike....so we can't or shouldn't keep blaming Ducati for a former world champions poor results when their part and contribution is a small part of the package.

Lastly, several Hayden fanboys on this site said Nicky riding Style would suit the Ducati and now many of those same fanboys are now saying its Ducati thats the problem ....make your minds up, please.


I just think that the technicians on the other side of the Ducati garage are rubbish. Melandri kept asking for the bike to act a certain way to give him confidence but they could never deliver it to him and the same is happening to Hayden. Stoner wants the bike to act a certain way and his side manage to sort it out for him. Ducati really need to look at replacing the guys on the other side of the garage because that is the common denominator in this situation. Hell, look at what Melandri is doing on the Kwak, surely that is a wake up call for Ducati.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ May 4 2009, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>doubt u can judge by what hayden does, he more often than not came outside the top 5 than did he came in the top 5 in a champtionship winning potential bike in 08

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ May 4 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Remember the 80/20 rule, 80% of motorcycle racing is the rider and 20% the bike
You don't think that ratio badly needs redressing with the advent of electronic assistance?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ May 4 2009, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>..........

Did he really believe this to be the case, or was it mind games? Whatever the case, it proves that Jeremy Burgess is a genius and gives Vale an unfair advantage. Perhaps Rossi should have a weight penalty to compensate for JB being in his garage.

..................

This really sounds like the same BS when some people say that Stoner wins only thanks to electronics. What is unfair (to these two extraordinary riders) is this kind of recurring statements... Always looking for some 'advantage' when they win, to belittle their performances

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 4 2009, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You don't think that ratio badly needs redressing with the advent of electronic assistance?
What your suggestion on the ratio then?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ May 4 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just think that the technicians on the other side of the Ducati garage are rubbish. Melandri kept asking for the bike to act a certain way to give him confidence but they could never deliver it to him and the same is happening to Hayden. Stoner wants the bike to act a certain way and his side manage to sort it out for him. Ducati really need to look at replacing the guys on the other side of the garage because that is the common denominator in this situation. Hell, look at what Melandri is doing on the Kwak, surely that is a wake up call for Ducati.

Okay, lets say that it is the crew on Nicky's side of the garage that are problem.

If we fire them all or most, where do you suggest we find a new crew ready to understand the '09 Ducati and Nicky to fix his current woes quickly?
- Perhaps from Casey's crew?
- Mika's since he seems to be okay on the Ducati?
- Gibber guys?
- Or Pete Benson leaves his Honda life behind and comes over to Ducati to salvage Nicky?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ May 4 2009, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Okay, lets say that it is the crew on Nicky's side of the garage that are problem.

If we fire them all or most, where do you suggest we find a new crew ready to understand the '09 Ducati and Nicky to fix his current woes quickly?
- Perhaps from Casey's crew?
- Mika's since he seems to be okay on the Ducati?
- Gibber guys?
- Or Pete Benson leaves his Honda life behind and comes over to Ducati to salvage Nicky?


Come off it, look at what Melandri is doing on the Kwak but yet he was in the exact same situation last year as Hayden is now. What does that say to you because it's certainly not the riders? There is two common denominators. 1. The bike 2. The crew.

And Mika and Gibbers performances are hardly anything to shout about now is it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 4 2009, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This really sounds like the same BS when some people say that Stoner wins only thanks to electronics. What is unfair (to these two extraordinary riders) is this kind of recurring statements... Always looking for some 'advantage' when they win, to belittle their performances
Very true, Give credit where credit is due........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nomad @ May 4 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Come off it, look at what Melandri is doing on the Kwak but yet he was in the exact same situation last year as Hayden is now. What does that say to you because it's certainly not the riders? There is two common denominators. 1. The bike 2. The crew.

Fine....but where will Ducati find a crew to fix the problems Nicky is having and understand the Ducati? If you think about it Ducati are not going to build a 100% new machine just to suit Nicky are they....so Nicky and wherever his new crew comes from will have to live with the bike they have....