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i'm not making a debate. it's only natural as time moves along, the riders/bikes get better. doesn't mean the talent level goes up. sure, nowadays they can do things they couldn't back then thanks to advancements, but motogp is the pinnacle of motorcycle racing, is it not? whether it was 30 years ago or 10 years ago, it always pitted the best riders against one another. meaning THE MOST TALENTED RACERS RACED AGAINST ONE ANOTHER. if you're not the most talented, you're not racing in 500gp or motogp. to say one gen is more talented is 1) biased and 2) impossible to prove. you'll more than likely choose the generation your favourite rider came from. you honestly think the riders of today would dominate the raw 500cc class? it's a different game now, stoner and co. were weaned on this game and they dominate this game, doesn't mean they're more talented than previous champs.
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That statement is completely naive.
You then completely contradict your self by suggesting that those dominating today would not have dominated in another era. Go back and look at the 500 era. On any given weekend random riders were able to compete at the front. Look at any given weekend of the 800 era and that NEVER happened. It is myth that the 500's were only rideable by a few. I have ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT that Stoner and Lorenzo would dominate on and in the 500 era because they are the BEST there is now.
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As an athlete from the 70's and 80's, i have no problem admitting that the athletes of today are superior to my generation. These riders are not from different era's, they have competed against each other enough to come up with real numbers, and numbers are not opinions. The numbers say that head to head, Casey has been the better of the 2 riders, period, no opinions, no different eras, real numbers. The numbers also show that since 2007, while still in his prime, Rossi's numbers have been slashed by 50 %. Again, not opinion, fact. Where opinion comes in, is when you start discussing the merits of why these numbers have changed. Most sensible people look at the numbers for their explanation, some simply cant except the truth.
Its all speculation, all the riders today are products of the series' they were brought up in. I think Casey being the freak he is would do well on 500's, Jorge i'm not so sure, he's far too clean and on rails all the time. What makes Rossi so special is his ability to win in every era he's competed in. Aye, Casey has won more since he started but this is all natural progression innit? Rossi couldnt just keep on winning for ever and ever and ever. If Casey hangs on for another few years you'll see someone come along and wipe the floor with him as well.
Haha, we all like ........ Skip to 01:59 first : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLpHpYXyUQw&feature=fvwrel
Then watch the whole thing while you are at it.
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so numbers is your game, i guess? i'll amuse you. 2006-2011. rossi's started 101 races to stoner's 100. stoner's won 33 to rossi's 26. stoner has 59 podiums to rossi's 58. stoners's accumulated 1561 championship points in those 6 years to rossi's 1539. a grand total of 22 MORE POINTS IN 6 SEASONS. stoner won 2 titles, finished 2nd once, two 4th places and an 8th. rossi won 2 titles, finished 2nd once, two 3rd places, and a 7th. i like rossi's numbers there, thank you. that's not even considering the fact that between 1996-2000, while stoner was cleaning house in his homeland, rossi was winning the 125cc and 250cc titles and the fact that while stoner couldn't beg, borrow, or steal a title in those same classes in 2001-2005 (you mean he wasn't an alien back then?), rossi was winning the premier class titles in all 5 of those years! forget everything about age, desire, injury, etc. and i'd say the strict numbers (2006-2011) don't back up your argument very well. from this point on, however, everything points to stoner dominating the class for a long time. then the numbers game will definitely favour stoner. but, as i see it, it's the way of the world: out with the old, in with the new...
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And yet despite all that, when they have met in the same class Stoner beats Rossi .......... what does that tell you
And even when we could see that Stoner was at a disadvantage on the Ducati, people still maintaining Stoner was the best rider out there but it was just not translating to more WC's. We have been lucky enough for Rossi to do the ultimate silly thing and go to Ducati to show us just how much better Stoner was .......... and it has proven to be even better than we the Stoner fan even expected.
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So how did a guy who couldn't beg, borrow or steal a title in those same classes manage to end up with 26.9% more wins in the top class of motogp against the 9 times w/c? Forget everything about age, desire, injury etc just strict numbers. 7 more wins, what's the explanation, assuming it's not talent?
Errr, noones denying that Stoner hasn't been better since 2006, what us Rossi fans dont get though is some of the Stoner fans think that Rossi is ..... and that he's not even slightly comparable to Stoner, which is incredibly short sighted. What the Stoner fans cant/wont see is Stoner is so good purely because he's taken the fight to Rossi. Rossi has been the benchmark for over 10years, like it or lump it.
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What about 2006, Rossi on a factory bike with SNS tyres made just for him and a crew that has won more MotoGP/500 titles then any other crew in history whilst Stoner was on a 3rd rate satellite bike with virtually last pick of the tyres and a team who were in their FIRST year of MotoGP having stepped up from 250's with Stoner.
So convenient to delete some details very relevant to the numbers. You know you are talking with kool-aid stained lips when Talpa agrees with you. Also really credible to give it to Rossi based on 2x3rds and a 7th over 2x4ths and an 8th when every other winning stat is in Stoners favour. Ummmmm....kool-aid!
So convenient to delete some details very relevant to the numbers. You know you are talking with kool-aid stained lips when Talpa agrees with you. Also really credible to give it to Rossi based on 2x3rds and a 7th over 2x4ths and an 8th when every other winning stat is in Stoners favour. Ummmmm....kool-aid!
Funny mental that you neglect to mention that despite Rossi having the best crew, tyres etc etc it was the factory themselves that screwed up, how many times did the M1 break down? SNS tyres that chunked? 2006 was nightmare year for Rossi from the outset, getting taken out by Elias at the first round, injuries etc yet he still won 6 races?
Absolutely, this has been my point from when I first started posting on here, and I would call stoner and rossi head to head pretty close to even, which means stoner is remarkably good as you say rather than that rossi is bad .
I would say though to those who want to call it for rossi on the basis of higher minor placings in the years that he didn't win the championship that firstly rossi and stoner (and most followers of the sport over it entire history) are interested in championships followed by race wins and not who finishes 2nd or lower, and by that other criterion that dani pedrosa has it 3:2 over rossi in the 800 era, and is even 3:3 with him overall.
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How can you say the factory screwed up when Rossi has hand built ever bike he rode until the Ducati!!
That's a pretty lame response Mental 'must try harder'
Good point Mic...will Ped win a championship and elevate his status though?
Look everyone Talpas made a new friend......... As Barry says past history means F/All since Stoner and Rossi have raced in the same class Stoner has won more, plain and simple..
Not very likely, which is why I don't place much stock in places other than first in the championship. I don't think rossi tried very hard to finish 2nd rather than 3rd in 2007, nor did stoner to finish 3rd rather than 4th in 2009 and 2010. They both tried to win races with their chance gone for the championship.
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Obviously we need to post an explanation on the definition of head to head. If you prefer Rossi's numbers straight up head to head between him and Stoner, your feeding yourself scraps. Rock on Brother
http://youtu.be/zxovbKyzEws
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