Should Yamaha Fire Rossi if he Doesnt Win the Title?

michaelm · Sep 30, 2015

gbphantom said:
I will agree with you that the 4 Honda/Yamaha factory rides will give anyone on the grid a significant boost. The problem is they still have to ride it. Marc is a perfect example of this. He has one of the best 4 bikes on the grid, but can't finish a race because he refuses to change at all. Ben Spies is another example of a factory rider not getting it done on raceday. Rossi went from a championship bike, to the Ducati and .... the bed, back to winning and lots of podiums (and several 4ths) on M1 again. Same thing with the current Ducati riders.

Rossi is a tactician. He's not as fast at Lorenzo or Marc, but he's gotten wiser over the years and seems to be able to run "his" race opposed to trying to run the blistering pace everyone else does. Argentina was a good example of this. Misano is another great example. I don't think he was baiting Lorenzo into doing what he did, but was just tying to make sure they were close. When I saw him go down I just assumed that Marc accidentally grabbed Jorge's bike. Minimize the damage he would have done to the point lead.

So I will agree with you to an extent, not that you pointed out anything mind warping. This has been the case for years, minus a few dark horses we cannot mention. F1 is far, far, far worse in terms of viewing and favoritism than MGP.

And Jum, don't be such a close-minded American. Over the pond it's a Coventry Steamer

There was this bloke called Max Biaggi, who did seem to be fairly good, who thought he just needed to change marques to win a world title.

Sure you need a factory Honda or Yamaha to win a world championship (except for that one year I won't mention), but whilst there are perhaps some riders who never get the chance to demonstrate what they really have, I don't believe just anyone can win a world championship on one of those bikes either.

Kropotkin · Sep 30, 2015

Jumkie said:
Personally I'd like to see Lorenzo and Marquez switch bikes. Then when the RCV looks smooth under Lorenzo's control and the M1 looks all out of shape under Marquez's control, then we could comment how planted the RCV looks and how loose the M1 appears when they both arrive on the podium.

Isnt this part of the point of this topic?

They would both be terrible. Lorenzo hates the bike to move around under him, wants it to be planted. The Honda isn't built like that. Marquez likes to wait until he has seen God, Allah, Jahweh, Krishna, Zeus, Ra and every other deity humanity has imagined and only then think about braking. The M1 won't stand for that.

Jumkie · Sep 30, 2015

Kropotkin said:
They would both be terrible. Lorenzo hates the bike to move around under him, wants it to be planted. The Honda isn't built like that. Marquez likes to wait until he has seen God, Allah, Jahweh, Krishna, Zeus, Ra and every other deity humanity has imagined and only then think about braking. The M1 won't stand for that.

Haha Krishna....

I agree with the sentiment that either rider has their particular suitability, but given their talent, would they arrive on the podium in such a scenario factoring in the army of techs and engineers assigned to help them suit the 'machine' for the endeavour?

littlesparrows · Sep 30, 2015

Kropotkin said:
They would both be terrible. Lorenzo hates the bike to move around under him, wants it to be planted. The Honda isn't built like that. Marquez likes to wait until he has seen God, Allah, Jahweh, Krishna, Zeus, Ra and every other deity humanity has imagined and only then think about braking. The M1 won't stand for that.

hahahahaha - i'm loosing it.

kropo - you are an amazing individual. i'm enjoying your posts throughly.

Jumkie · Sep 30, 2015

littlesparrows said:
hahahahaha - i'm loosing it.

kropo - you are an amazing individual. i'm enjoying your posts throughly.

Well...let's not start sucking eachother's dicks just yet. Kropo was just employing an old racer saying. (Though his adaptation of it was hilarious for me personally--Krishna, HAHAHA.)

"Hold the throttle wide open until you see God, then brake".

Btw little SpareHoe, here is one you would appreciate.

"Cornering perfectly is like bringing a woman to climax.” - Jackie Stewart

littlesparrows · Sep 30, 2015

Jumkie said:
Well...let's not start sucking eachother's dicks just yet. Kropo was just employing an old racer saying. (Though his adaptation of it was hilarious for me personally--Krishna, HAHAHA.)

"Hold the throttle wide open until you see God, then brake".

Btw little SpareHoe, here is one you would appreciate.

"Cornering perfectly is like bringing a woman to climax.” - Jackie Stewart

Aww Junkie, don't get jealous. You still posted some of my favorites posts on the forum.

Jumkie · Sep 30, 2015

littlesparrows said:
Aww Junkie, don't get jealous. You still posted some of my favorites posts on the forum.

Btw, the:'"lets not start sucking eachothers dicks just yet" was also a quote.

Disproving a negative, errr, they're impossible.

My bad, I wasn't sure u were aware Krops was employing an old racer quote.

Carry on wayward son...

JPSLotus · Sep 30, 2015

littlesparrows said:
hahahahaha - i'm loosing it.

kropo - you are an amazing individual. i'm enjoying your posts throughly.

I second this!

JPSLotus · Sep 30, 2015

Jumkie said:
Btw, the:'"lets not start sucking eachothers dicks just yet" was also a quote.

Disproving a negative, errr, they're impossible.

My bad, I wasn't sure u were aware Krops was employing an old racer quote.

Carry on wayward son...

#22 · Sep 30, 2015

You all talk of sucking dicks and you call ME gay?!

JPSLotus · Sep 30, 2015

#22 said:
You all talk of sucking dicks and you call ME gay?!

As long as there is a street corner, you'll always have a job.

littlesparrows · Sep 30, 2015

#22 said:
You all talk of sucking dicks and you call ME gay?!

I'm gay.

Kropotkin · Sep 30, 2015

Jumkie said:
Haha Krishna....

I agree with the sentiment that either rider has their particular suitability, but given their talent, would they arrive on the podium in such a scenario factoring in the army of techs and engineers assigned to help them suit the 'machine' for the endeavour?

I think Lorenzo would have his Rossi/Ducati moment. As for HRC engineers tailoring the machine to suit the rider, all I can say is

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You should really ask Marc Marquez about that. Or Dani Pedrosa. Or Nicky Hayden.

Marquez would manage podiums, but only because the Yamaha is easier to ride. Yamaha still wouldn't change their basic philosophy for him.

Now, Lorenzo and Marquez at Ducati, that's I'd like to see. Or Lorenzo at Suzuki.

J4rn0 · Sep 30, 2015

Jumkie said:
Haha Krishna....

I agree with the sentiment that either rider has their particular suitability, but given their talent, would they arrive on the podium in such a scenario factoring in the army of techs and engineers assigned to help them suit the 'machine' for the endeavour?

That is precisely what Rossi thought when he went to Ducati... the bike does not suit my style but we'll fix it. Not so easy.

Gaz · Sep 30, 2015

#22 said:
You all talk of sucking dicks and you call ME gay?!

If you are wearing a dress when sucking the .... it aint gay .........

Jumkie · Sep 30, 2015

Kropotkin said:
I think Lorenzo would have his Rossi/Ducati moment. As for HRC engineers tailoring the machine to suit the rider, all I can say is

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You should really ask Marc Marquez about that. Or Dani Pedrosa. Or Nicky Hayden.

Marquez would manage podiums, but only because the Yamaha is easier to ride. Yamaha still wouldn't change their basic philosophy for him.

Now, Lorenzo and Marquez at Ducati, that's I'd like to see. Or Lorenzo at Suzuki.

Interesting. I know my friend Arrabi would agree that the M1 is easier.

There is this kiwi fella that I spoke with in a non-threading setting when Rossi was at Ducati, (the team was at my hotel) he suggested the exact same thing about Ducati, that is that the marquee was unwilling to move for VR. Though, I really enjoyed talking to him and seemed like an honest guy, my sense reading the 'radical' changes Course were making seemed not to jive with the idea that the Italians were set in their ways.

Ive read and heard what you say often about HRC, and for sure I believe there is truth to it; however, then I read that Marquez is on a "hybrid" iteration allowed a 2014 chassis. Meanwhile Pedro is using the 2015. On the face of it, this fact would suggest HRC are not as inflexible as we might think. I am aware of corporate culture, just seems amazing that Yamaha would have such diametrically contrasting one given both executives and engineers are products of the same Japanese culture.

If I am going to entertain the idea of Marc or Lorenzo at the current manifestation of the GP15, I would imagine Marc would fair better than Lorenzo. But neither would win the title.

Kropo, as you know im highly cynical and skeptical, given my predisposition (some might call it a flaw) im also reminded of the collective wisdom that pervaded our sport when people considered in their mind's eye what it might be like if Rossi and Stoner were teammates at Ducati in say 2009. So forgive me for thinking that if Lorenzo and Marquez switched bikes next year, I think either marquee would do their best to get their talented rider to win despite of their respective suitability. Plus I just dont see either factory being so unique (think Ducati 07-13 ) for either to suffer being off the podium. I may be wrong. But in my defense, I was right about Rossi 'before' he signed the Ducati contract. And I was in the vast minority.

Kropotkin · Sep 30, 2015

Jumkie said:
Ive read and heard what you say often about HRC, and for sure I believe there is truth to it; however, then I read that Marquez is on a "hybrid" iteration allowed a 2014 chassis. Meanwhile Pedro is using the 2015. On the face of it, this fact would suggest HRC are not as inflexible as we might think. I am aware of corporate culture, just seems amazing that Yamaha would have such diametrically contrasting one given both executives and engineers are products of the same Japanese culture.

Marquez, Pedrosa, Bradl and Bautista all begged Honda for one thing: a more usable engine, even if it came at the expense of horsepower. I sat in the room at Valencia as Shuhei Nakamoto told us the goal for 2015 was to make the bike more user friendly. HRC's engineers came back with an engine which is massively powerful, but terrible to use. It's fast, only you can't even use that speed, as the ...... won't grip. The best thing about that bike is the stability on the brakes, the rest of the bike is frankly rather ..... That's why the Honda riders keep falling off, they are trying to make up on the brakes what they are losing everywhere else.

What Honda are doing with the extra chassis is basically applying band aids to the problem. That is not the same as listening to the riders.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 30, 2015

Kropotkin said:
they are trying to make up on the brakes what they are losing everywhere else.

The RCV hooks up in a straight line better than the M1 though. For all the advances that Yamaha have made this season - significantly, punch out of the corners, the Honda still has the top end...which granted, doesn't win races, but served Dani very nicely last Sunday.

Jumkie · Sep 30, 2015

Kropotkin said:
T... deity humanity has imagined and only then think about braking. The M1 won't stand for that.

Ok, maybe Im not understanding what I thought I observed but reviewing aerial footage of Aragon, Pedro would pull away out of the corner and throughout the straight but Rossi would make up extraordinary ground on the brakes. It sounds like you are saying Marquez late braking would not suit the M1? Are u saying the application of the brakes, say over a moment, is the difference? Because Rossi brakes extraordinarily late as well.

What it appears im observing is Pedro not getting his bike stopped as well as Rossi, but Valentino not being able to capitalize on his braking advantage because Dani's superior lifting of the bike on the fat part hooking up to bolt out of the corner. Hence VR's tactic of overshooting the corner to place his bike in front of Dani in hopes that it would disrupt him.

Kropotkin · Sep 30, 2015

Arrabbiata1 said:
The RCV hooks up in a straight line better than the M1 though. For all the advances that Yamaha have made this season - significantly, punch out of the corners, the Honda still has the top end...which granted, doesn't win races, but served Dani very nicely last Sunday.

They only get it right very occasionally. Watch most races and the Yamaha gets off the corner better, as it has better mechanical grip. Pedrosa was getting off Turn 15 better than Rossi, but we don't know whether Rossi sacrificed something there to gain in another part of the track.

In previous years, the Honda killed the Yamaha out the corner every time. Not true any more.

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Should Yamaha Fire Rossi if he Doesnt Win the Title?

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