Should Dani be trying to bet his team mate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Elias Number 1 Fan @ Oct 15 2006, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And an analogy doesn't have to pertain to the same sport to be right. Whats the difference between fixing a result beforehand in football or fixing a result beforehand in motorbikes? Except for the fact that its different sports.....
well first off match fixing in football is simply about a team throwing a game for whatever reason, usally money & is illeagl. having team orders or letting ur teamate ahead of u in motorsport does'nt thro anything. it's helping yer team gain an advantage to achieve the goal of winning the championship, winning a race or simply scoring extra points. & is not illeagl. it's a strategic thing.

Alright this is just to explain why I said what I said about football. You just made a fallatical arguement. You are trying to associate football with motorcycle racing. So I am going to give you the definitions of the errors your arguement made. When you correct your arguement and prove that your statements are valid the conversation can resume with a logical "point counterpoint" format.

your errors:

Irrelevant Conclusion (also called Ignoratio Elenchi), wherein, instead of proving the fact in dispute, the arguer seeks to gain his point by diverting attention to some extraneous fact (as in the legal story of "No case. Abuse the plaintiff's attorney"). The fallacies are common in platform oratory, in which the speaker obscures the real issue by appealing to his audience on the grounds of
o purely personal considerations (argumentum ad hominem)
o popular sentiment (argumentum ad populum, appeal to the majority)
o fear (argumentum ad baculum)
o conventional propriety (argumentum ad verecundiam)

This fallacy has been illustrated by ethical or theological arguments wherein the fear of punishment is subtly substituted for abstract right as the sanction of moral obligation.

And:

Hasty generalization, also known as fallacy of insufficient statistics, fallacy of insufficient sample, fallacy of the lonely fact, leaping to a conclusion, hasty induction, law of small numbers, unrepresentative sample or secundum quid, is the logical fallacy of reaching an inductive generalization based on too little evidence. It commonly involves basing a broad conclusion upon the statistics of a survey of a small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population. Statistics in general can have many problems, especially in surveys where the questions can assume too much, be too vague, or be too misleading.

holy crap eagle! ur not a lawyer r ya?

I'm going to do the opposite of Eagle here and say it quick and simple.

Yes, Dani should try to beat his teammate.
But not when the championship is at stake.

Football, Futbol, American Football, Rugby.
Big guys fighting each other for a piece of leather with air inside.
Breathtaking stuff indeed!

Ohh and this one is part of the last one

An association fallacy is a type of logical fallacy which asserts that qualities of one are inherently qualities of another, merely by association. The two types are sometimes referred to as "guilt by association" and "honor by association." Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and are often based in an appeal to emotion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Oct 15 2006, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>holy crap eagle! ur not a lawyer r ya?


I am currently in law school. I still lack some time though.

yeah.... yer a lawyer! the football thing was'nt workin for me niether.

I understood like 5 words in that post. the, if, then, and, wherein.
Good thing I'm training to be a pilot and don't have to know that huge of a vocabulary!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Oct 15 2006, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I understood like 5 words in that post. the, if, then, and, wherein.
Good thing I'm training to be a pilot and don't have to know that huge of a vocabulary!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Oct 15 2006, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I understood like 5 words in that post. the, if, then, and, wherein.
Good thing I'm training to be a pilot and don't have to know that huge of a vocabulary!

Its easy once you get the hang of it and it becomes even easier to spot errors in arguements. The fact is that arguements can not be won or lost without someone with more power than the people in the arguement to decide who has won and who has lost. That is why tobacco companies still exhist and also why topics like abortion and stem cell research are very strong campaign points for politicians in the US.

Actually what I just did was kind of a fallacy in arguementative tactics. I tried to undermine the arguers intelligence by presenting facts against his arguements in trying to sway the audience to support me becuase I am "more intelligent and must be correct." Even though this can not be proven and I dont know this guy. Its just a defense and I hope he dosnt take it personal.

I object! harassing the witness! Overruled!
That's all I know about law.
And that people think lawyers are pony tail wearing deuche bags who drive convertibles in California.

I don't think they're too bad.
Matter of fact, the best online racer I know is going to be a lawyer....
See you on 360!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagle088 @ Oct 15 2006, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually what I just did was kind of a fallacy in arguementative tactics. I tried to undermine the arguers intelligence by presenting facts against his arguements in trying to sway the audience to support me becuase I am "more intelligent and must be correct." Even though this can not be proven and I dont know this guy. Its just a defense and I hope he dosnt take it personal.
yeah but the problem is people must understand what u are saying to be victorious. & i'm pretty sure none of us speak lawyer here!

having done philosophy here i understand some of the stuff you are talking about eagle but still i think the whole argument here myself is irrelevant.

this is a forum. people have opinions. you cannot say an opinion is right or wrong, you either agree with it or you dont. the reason this place has become as successful as it is i think is because we arent all 'yes' men and women and agree with each other all the time. we disagree all the damn time and we learn more about the sport through other peoples idea's and opinions.

thats my 2 cents worth anyhoo

YES he should try to beat his teammate.... he did it before but today was an race inccident ...a baad luck for both

Yes because in motogp the teammate is your rival, not your friend ...it's not F1 it's motogp....

YES because in estoril case pedrosa was faster then nicky, and still had his chance...

Nicky had also some not all safe moves on dani too..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eagle088 @ Oct 15 2006, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its easy once you get the hang of it and it becomes even easier to spot errors in arguements. The fact is that arguements can not be won or lost without someone with more power than the people in the arguement to decide who has won and who has lost. That is why tobacco companies still exhist and also why topics like abortion and stem cell research are very strong campaign points for politicians in the US.

Actually what I just did was kind of a fallacy in arguementative tactics. I tried to undermine the arguers intelligence by presenting facts against his arguements in trying to sway the audience to support me becuase I am "more intelligent and must be correct." Even though this can not be proven and I dont know this guy. Its just a defense and I hope he dosnt take it personal.
but it didn't, it just bored me enough that i skipped it. people use big words at me i just ask them to tell me in plain english,thyey normaly cant !

Team orders are a ..... but in the current situation HRC were in I think there were essential and todays incident proves that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capirex @ Oct 15 2006, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>YES he should try to beat his teammate.... he did it before but today was an race inccident ...a baad luck for both

Yes because in motogp the teammate is your rival, not your friend ...it's not F1 it's motogp....

YES because in estoril case pedrosa was faster then nicky, and still had his chance...

Nicky had also some not all safe moves on dani too..
if the championship were not at stake i would agree with u, but i'm affraid i can't, just plain stupid on pedders part.

What is a teammate for if he won't help you in your quest for the title? A team of Repsol Honda's caliber starts out the season with a primary goal: win the world championship. If one rider is in a position to win the title, and the other rider isn't, then the lower rider should help the rider that is in contention, no? This is competition; the best want to win and they should use the second rider as an assistant. Colin said that he would help Rossi; he did his job well. There's nothing wrong, IMO, with Colin's support role. Sure, it won't win the Texan much glory, but he fulfilled his duty as a teammate. Why call them teammates if they're gonna race you like you're from another team?

To me, letting one of your riders race his teammate with the championship on the line devalues the championship. Obviously Repsol Honda wants Nicky to win, I just don't think they have their hearts set on it. Giving Dani the go to race Nicky as he would everyone else ("no team orders") shows that. They have accepted Dani as the future (and rightfully so IMO). I think HRC has been looking forward to next year with new bikes and a more seasoned Dani Pedrosa. I think they just wanted to let the 2006 season run its course so they could concentrate on '07 with the 800 and Dani.

Oh well, this has been an amazing season. Could it get more dramatic? Could one write a better movie script? Joy, anger, defeat, costly errors, turning tides and more. I have never witnessed a more exciting racing season.



After leaving for Yamaha, Rossi has made Repsol Honda look silly. Today Yamaha worked well as a team and Repsol Honda crashed out as a team, virtually handing the title to the great one.

Now, is Honda upset about Nicky's title hopes? Or are they just plain embarassed?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Oct 16 2006, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh well, this has been an amazing season. Could it get more dramatic? Could one write a better movie script? Joy, anger, defeat, costly errors, turning tides and more. I have never witnessed a more exciting racing season.

ditto.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Oct 15 2006, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ditto.

This is the first Moto GP season that I have followed in its entirety. Moto GP: in me you have a full-time fan for next year and beyond. You have successfully converted me from the 4-wheeled world, supplanting the American Le Mans Series as my favorite championship. Hell, I even want a bike of my own now.

Cue Janis Joplin Oh lord won't you buy me a DR-Z 400SM?.