Rossi's Legacy Tainted

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McKneZ said:
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nicely done
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Bunyip said:
I know we haven,t even had race one yet, but it would appear to all but the most faithful or delusional Rossi-fans that Rossi is in for a tough 2011.



The biggest problem for Rossi is that he has finally put himself into the situation where he can be closely compared with another one of his main two rivals. On the Yamaha he was struggling to show superior talent to Lorenzo with equal equipment, to the point that he initially had the "wall " created ,and then subsequently demanded Lorenzos removal from the team. When that didn,t happen his only option was to move to a Stoner-free Ducati team.

Rossi saw Stoner achieve reasonably good results over the years, including many victories at the end of 2010, so Rossis ego made him believe that he could do the same or better on the same bike. This will be his undoing. It was bad enough for him not to dominate Lorenzo, but it is far far worse for him to be seen as inferior to Stoner on the same bike.



This quote is telling.....



"I'd split this group in two factions: one part is made of those who have always been against me, people who don't like me, people who supported [Max] Biaggi first, then [Sete] Gibernau, and then [Casey] Stoner," said Rossi.



"The excuse was that Casey rode for Ducati, but the truth is these people don't like me. There's not much I can do about it, I must accept this situation.



"As for the other part, it's a group of Ducati fans who have always seen me as a rival, so they now struggle to accept me atop a Ducati. Overall, it's people who haven't looked at this union with favour. These are fans I would like to convince and win over with results and with the races."







.............sounds like he is really under pressure, I think largely because he cannot do what Casey could do on the Ducati, and the great Italian dream of an Italian winning on an Italian bike seems a million miles away.

There must be a lot of regrets already........leaving the brilliant Yamaha for the pig-Ducati, for accusing Stoner of not trying hard enough last year. Surely battling Lorenzo on equal footing was a far better situation than the current scenario where he could just be making up the numbers, something the "great Valentino" would never have contemplated.

As Jumkie has stated, Rossi has been the favoured one over the years..........the best bike, special tyres etec etc, Yes, the move to Yamaha was bold, but with JB he always had the trump card to play, and also in those days the opposition wasn,t as strong.



Whatever the case, Rossi (mostly deservedly) built up a reputation as a riding God and became to be regarded as probably the best rider ever. Now that reputation looks to being tarnished to a large degree. If his results are as poor this year as we fear, then Rossis riding skills will (unfairly) be questioned. If there is general recognition that the Ducati really is a pig, then many may say that Rossis famed development and setup skills are not quite what we thought. Already on this , and other, forums the mood has changed. 3 years ago it was almost universally accepted that Rossi lost 2007 because of a distinct bike disadvantage. Now people are not so sure. Except for fans like Talpa.



Talpa hates Stoner, and that hate really seems quite pathological at times. Talpa has argued that Stoner has been ungenerous, he whinges, he blows his stack. Some of this may be true.....I believe in the heat of the moment he has "blown up". I think that he has had a huge resentment of the underplaying of his skills and this has led to a bit of a siege mentality. In hindsight it would seem that his cause for resentment was well justified, as it is only really coming to light this year that the Ducati really was a pig of a bike and that Stoner must have overidden it to get the results he gained. The tide is turning.......even over at Crash.net (Rossi bopperland) the number of Stoner fans is rapidly catching up to Rossi's. However ,over at MCN Talpas relatives still dominate the forum. Funny thing is, like Talpa, after accepting the favoured status of Honda this year, are mostly tipping Pedrosa to beat Stoner...............just like Talpa. Rossi fans really don,t like Stoner.



But for all of Stoners bad behaviour (if there really is that much I doubt), there is a real calculatedness to Rossis approach to his opposition.

His method of undermining and demonizing his strongest opponents was as sinister as it was subtle. Before we knew it Max Biaggi became Bad Max, Sete Gibernau became the pariah, the dobber, the one that was cursed never to win a race ever again. While Rossi had special tyres for all those years, virtually the minute the Bridgestones seemed better, he demanded to get those. He threatened to leave motoGP if he didn,t get what he wanted. There is a pattern emerging. Jumkie has very successfully elaborated on these points many times. You see Rossi is not quite the wonderful funny guy everybody thinks he is. Lorenzo was on the cusp of cementing his world title last year, so what did Rossi do..........did he play a supporting role? Of course not, he,s Valentino Rossi and motoGP is the Valentino Rossi show, so Rossi did his best to take attention away from Lorenzo and try to beat him up in that vital race. A real teammate? His team were not impressed either. So Rossi has an ego and he is competetive. Fair enough. At this level you probably need a bit of both to win, but I think his approach has gone beyond the bounds of good sportsmanship. I don,t think Doohan resorted to the same degree of shenanigans.



So, in summary, we Stoner fans are finally feeling that there is karma, that Stoner is finally being recognised for HIS skills and not the Ducatis speed. That Rossi is breing brought down a peg ot two. The fact that Rossi was not content to fight Lorenzo on equal footing has led to a questioning of his status as still the best rider in the world. Rossi,s arrogance and ego have resulted in a move to Ducati and a dramatic fall from grace so far , and a finish outside the top 3 this year will mean that his legacy as a motorcycle god will be forever tainted.
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I think the guy can have one bad year. Look at his career the most impressive motogp rider ever.
 
basspete said:
Thats the facts, it's the revisionist "Rossi only won because (insert reason here)" pish that means nothing and makes the writers look as thick as a brick.



I repeat Rossi has shat in his own nest by going to Ducati, but he still has a record that is head and shoulders above the current crop.
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I agree, mostly, but I don't believe Rossi shat in his bed by going to Ducati, he shat it by going to Ducati on the back of bad-mouthing Stoner's work ethic.



If Rossi had said 'The Ducati needs work, we're here to work' and had bad results, I don't think there would be a dry eye in the house, but as it happens, he accused Stoner of a lack of effort, a lack of talent, a lack of input to the team, then he rode the thing.



Now his trademark fluoro yellow looks like egg all over his face, his lack of effort is palpable and his lack of talent is being raised more and more.



Don't get me wrong, not his lack of talent at punting the bike round the track, but his lack of talent at taking a pigs ear and making it into a silk purse.



And his lack of character is evident in statements like: "[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I don't want to fight like Hayden to finish sixth"[/font]
 
GeePee said:
What has been the biggest cause of Rossi's decline in riding ability?...Broken leg in my opinion.
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Has he had a decline in riding ability? His loss of form is due to picking Ducati as his new ride, IMO.



He rode the wheels off the Yamaha when he got back from the leg, to no avail. He won a single race against Lorenzo (his last win to date) who only had to bag 9 points to win the championship - I think Jorge rode a tactical race - he wasn't going to risk the championship just to have a pop at Rossi.



For all the furore, a broken femur isn't the massive damage to the robot's chassis that has been made out in the press. A knee is far more serious and hurts a damned sight more (ask me how I know...)



If his broken leg had that much of an impact, he didn't let it show...he managed 7 podiums out of 10 starts when he returned. His loss of form started the day he rode out at midday in Valencia on Nov. 9th, 2010.
 
Jerez quali



Hayden 3rd Rossi 13th.......says it all.



Rossi behind Randy on a CRT.



Please stop Vale. Your killing your memory.
 
I count as one who has eaten his words. I thought (I think I made a post here too), when the initial news that Rossi signed with Ducati, he was going to be pretty competitive even though others (i.e. people not named Stoner) had failed and that Rossi had the potential to win championships with Ducati. I'm definitely no Bopper, but how wrong I was (and still am).
 
First up, I am a Rossi Fan so I don't think Rossi's Legacy will be tainted by his time on the Ducati. Some, of course, will judge that it has been seriously damaged. Perhaps, Rossi should have retired after his last World Championship but then some would have said he only retired because he knew he couldn't beat Stoner/Lorenzo/Pedrosa in the years to come.



Obviously, Rossi is struggling to go fast on the Ducati and like many others, I thought he would have sorted it out within a few races last year so I got that one wrong. However, I get the impression that when Rossi tells Ducati to do this to make the bike more to his liking that his wishes are basically ignored as the engineers at Ducati know best.
 
Valerian said:
First up, I am a Rossi Fan so I don't think Rossi's Legacy will be tainted by his time on the Ducati. Some, of course, will judge that it has been seriously damaged. Perhaps, Rossi should have retired after his last World Championship but then some would have said he only retired because he knew he couldn't beat Stoner/Lorenzo/Pedrosa in the years to come.



Obviously, Rossi is struggling to go fast on the Ducati and like many others, I thought he would have sorted it out within a few races last year so I got that one wrong. However, I get the impression that when Rossi tells Ducati to do this to make the bike more to his liking that his wishes are basically ignored as the engineers at Ducati know best.
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Which is why as a marque they renounced their entire racing DNA and gave him a twin beam ally frame while Melandri had been saddled with a very stressed member CF chassis and at the vaguest suggestion that there was something amiss - a shrink to see thrice weekly. Get real. Like I said, Valentino's lack of ambition is currently outweighing his talent.



In spite of this....I still genuinely believe it's the greatest talent out there.
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
In spite of this....I still genuinely believe it's the greatest talent out there.
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I can't agree. It may have been, at one time, but he has been eclipsed by younger, harder, more eager riders who wouldn't sit there with their head in their hands and cry 'Mamma Mia!' because the bike wasn't perfect. His comment about not wasting his time riding like Hayden for fifth or sixth place was the most telling, both of his attitude and his character.



He is paid a shedload of money to deliver - he isn't. He is barely matching the performance of the satellite teams. His team-mate is gritting his teeth and showing great character and fortitude.



He lost any claim to the GOAT title when it was proven that he can only ride the best, fast. If it isn't right, he can't adapt.



There are three other riders out there, at least, that can. And they have been kicking his arse for 18 months now.
 
mt1960 said:
I can't agree. It may have been, at one time, but he has been eclipsed by younger, harder, more eager riders who wouldn't sit there with their head in their hands and cry 'Mamma Mia!' because the bike wasn't perfect. His comment about not wasting his time riding like Hayden for fifth or sixth place was the most telling, both of his attitude and his character.



He is paid a shedload of money to deliver - he isn't. He is barely matching the performance of the satellite teams. His team-mate is gritting his teeth and showing great character and fortitude.



He lost any claim to the GOAT title when it was proven that he can only ride the best, fast. If it isn't right, he can't adapt.



There are three other riders out there, at least, that can. And they have been kicking his arse for 18 months now.
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Completely - but this is currently a question of approach as opposed to talent. Rossi's glib comment at Misano in 2010 that it was impossible to evaluate the potential of the Ducati because Casey wasn't trying hard enough has firmly bit him on the arse. He simply isn't prepared to risk life and 'limb' on a bike that currently can't compete. I don't believe either Dani or even Jorge come to that would fare much better on such a finicky and temperamental beast which makes Nicky's stoicism and tenacity all the more admirable.



Instead of complaining about equal treatment of Lorenzo at Yamaha - the first time this has been directed at a team-mate of Rossi, Valentino should have concentrated on beating him on the bike that was supposedly his progeny instead of behaving like a spoilt pernicious child.



At least given Spies current morass, for the first time since Sheene a Brit has a remote shot of a competitive Factory ride in the premier class. Go Cal!!!!!
 
mt1960 said:
I can't agree. It may have been, at one time, but he has been eclipsed by younger, harder, more eager riders who wouldn't sit there with their head in their hands and cry 'Mamma Mia!' because the bike wasn't perfect. His comment about not wasting his time riding like Hayden for fifth or sixth place was the most telling, both of his attitude and his character.



He is paid a shedload of money to deliver - he isn't. He is barely matching the performance of the satellite teams. His team-mate is gritting his teeth and showing great character and fortitude.



He lost any claim to the GOAT title when it was proven that he can only ride the best, fast. If it isn't right, he can't adapt.



There are three other riders out there, at least, that can. And they have been kicking his arse for 18 months now.
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Ago once said that his bike had to be perfect in order for him to ride fast and win. He said Hailwood could ride any heap of sht fast.



If Rossi ain't GOAT because he needs a perfect bike, better count Ago out too.
 

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