Rossi v Stoner: On the Ducati

Rossi had the $500 forks made the way they are supposed to be, 1+1-1=1

Randy didnt have $500 forks, 1+0+1=2

Randy has a statellite bike, 1+0+1+1=3

Randy is a 2nd grade 'lesser' rider 1+0+1+1+1=4

Randy's team takes more than 80 seconds to fix the problem, 1+0+1+1+1+1=5



Rossi says his problems were unexpected false neutrals.

We never even get to hear if or when Randy the 'lesser rider' ever gets false neutrals? Who gives a toss about a guy named Randy! The .... movie director, thats who.



The Ducati was lost in preseason testing, almost there in France, lost again by Silverstone, almost there again in Brno, lost again at Indy.

The reasons include bad shoulder, bike developed by a madman, lacking feel at the front, pumping at the rear, for some reason fixing the rear made the front worse, the forks, wheels, tyres, motor are all good it must be the frame, front forks not good, tyres were not warmed up using the correct procedure, the crash yesterday in qualifying, the gearbox. What the f#$k is Biaggi doing riding Rossi's bike?

Kropotkin said:

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Bravo! Kropo, this really had me rolling with laughter. And the WTF to concern body language from Stoner was hilarious.

birdman said:

Rossi had the $500 forks made the way they are supposed to be, 1+1-1=1

Randy didnt have $500 forks, 1+0+1=2

Randy has a statellite bike, 1+0+1+1=3

Randy is a 2nd grade 'lesser' rider 1+0+1+1+1=4

Randy's team takes more than 80 seconds to fix the problem, 1+0+1+1+1+1=5



Rossi says his problems were unexpected false neutrals.

We never even get to hear if or when Randy the 'lesser rider' ever gets false neutrals? Who gives a toss about a guy named Randy! The .... movie director, thats who.



The Ducati was lost in preseason testing, almost there in France, lost again by Silverstone, almost there again in Brno, lost again at Indy.

The reasons include bad shoulder, bike developed by a madman, lacking feel at the front, pumping at the rear, for some reason fixing the rear made the front worse, the forks, wheels, tyres, motor are all good it must be the frame, front forks not good, tyres were not warmed up using the correct procedure, the crash yesterday in qualifying, the gearbox. What the f#$k is Biaggi doing riding Rossi's bike?

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Your post would make more sense IF this were true over a season, but in one race, where Rossi gets false neutrals, for him to finish below Randy is understandable. Do yourself a favor and check the number of self inflicted DNFs by Randy. Karel Abraham, who supposedly bought his way into MotoGP sits higher in points. Randy is not even beating his teammate on points, and that is after this Earth shattering 8th finish you and the other guy are clamoring about. The only guys Randy is beating in points is John Hopkins, who has one race! Now couple your math with Randy's championship points, and you begin to see a very different tally. Rossi suffered from a serious mechanical. Its almost like a mechanical DNF where he rode to the finish anyway.

Jumkie said:

Bravo! Kropo, this really had me rolling with laughter. And the WTF to concern body language from Stoner was hilarious.

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I can claim no credit. Someone posted it on my own forum.

Kropotkin said:

I can claim no credit. Someone posted it on my own forum.

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That'd be me. Thanks for the credit, and Happy Birthday for the other day!

corinthian said:

That'd be me. Thanks for the credit, and Happy Birthday for the other day!

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Great stuff!!! Happy birthday Kropo!

Jumkie said:

Rossi had gearbox problems and tire problem. 1+1=2

Randy had tire problems 1+0=1



Guess who had more problems?



Now, I'll agree in principle that he isn't exploring the edge of the bike, or in his own words "he's not pusshing the Ducati". But at Indy, he had some problems. And look at what resulted, he was dead last and ended up 10th because he cruised around the last laps to finish the race. And about why he gets paid more, I think you answered your own question. Plus I'd add, Rossi has a few more titles than Randy when he signed for Ducati. That might explain the pay discrepancy.

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Then why the dismal qualifying effort from Rossi?



It seems to me that a combination of a slippery surface and the already lacking confidence in the Ducati have just combined to hit Rossi harder than other sat this circuit.



I don't think it should have been a factor given the other Ducati riders performance but I think its a logical explanation.



Obviously a dodgy gearbox doesn't help but Rossi's problems have been evident for the entire weekend not just race day.



Cheers



Gecko

Gecko Hunter said:

Then why the dismal qualifying effort from Rossi?



It seems to me that a combination of a slippery surface and the already lacking confidence in the Ducati have just combined to hit Rossi harder than other sat this circuit.



I don't think it should have been a factor given the other Ducati riders performance but I think its a logical explanation.



Obviously a dodgy gearbox doesn't help but Rossi's problems have been evident for the entire weekend not just race day.



Cheers



Gecko

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You are not following the thread and who I was replying to, were you. I was reply to this guy who tried to make a point that Rossi is getting paid too much if he can get beat by RDp. I was explaining to him that during the race, Rossi experienced more problems, hence lower finishing order.

gumby1 said:

Can someone explain to me because i am a little confused, why or how Randy out performed all other Ducatis and finished in a credible 8th position on a SATELLITE BIKE !!!



How is this so. How does Rossi justify being paid a small fortune for his lack lustre efforts to date when RDP is out performing the great one at a fraction of his salary.

Granted he cant bring to ducati the endorsements and spotlight that rossi can, and that may be the answer.

But is it due to the fact that he is prepared to push beyond comfort levels and ride on the edge of adhesion, which is what i thought seperated the elite motogp riders from the average club rider ???



This is also what seperates casey from vale on the duc !!

If vale is not prepared to explore the "edge" as casey and randy did and today hayden did whilst he had grip, a serious question arises about his ability and cred...

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My reply:

Rossi had gearbox problems and tire problem. 1+1=2

Randy had tire problems 1+0=1



Guess who had more problems?



Now, I'll agree in principle that he isn't exploring the edge of the bike, or in his own words "he's not pusshing the Ducati". But at Indy, he had some problems. And look at what resulted, he was dead last and ended up 10th because he cruised around the last laps to finish the race. And about why he gets paid more, I think you answered your own question. Plus I'd add, Rossi has a few more titles than Randy when he signed for Ducati. That might explain the pay discrepancy.

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So what is your point? Sure, Rossi had a dismal qualifying, but that was more due to the fact he crashed in the session and didn't have time to get the best set up for the last run. This is common when riders crash. But the point is what happened during the RACE. And during the race Rossi experienced multiple problems, one of which was major. You say "Obviously a dodgy gearbox doesn't help..." Marginalizing this problem is laughable. He was lucky to finish the race, and did so at some risk, as a false neutral can cause a crash. Had he retired early, you might be saying he's a quitter (well maybe not you, but certainly the guy I was replying to).



As I said above, you want to sing Randy's praises because he beat Rossi in one race? I wrote this above: Do yourself a favor and check the number of self inflicted DNFs by Randy. Karel Abraham, who supposedly bought his way into MotoGP sits higher in points. Randy is not even beating his teammate on points, and that is after this Earth shattering 8th finish you and the other guy are clamoring about. The only guys Randy is beating in points is John Hopkins, who has one race (and a Jap test rider)!



So again, what's your point, as it seemed you didn't follow the line of exchange. Are you saying that Randy is a better rider than Rossi? Have you checked where Randy sits on points? This was Randy's best finish of the entire season; it happen to come on the day where Rossi had problems. So what's your point?

Jumkie said:

Your post would make more sense IF this were true over a season, but in one race, where Rossi gets false neutrals, for him to finish below Randy is understandable. Do yourself a favor and check the number of self inflicted DNFs by Randy. Karel Abraham, who supposedly bought his way into MotoGP sits higher in points. Randy is not even beating his teammate on points, and that is after this Earth shattering 8th finish you and the other guy are clamoring about. The only guys Randy is beating in points is John Hopkins, who has one race! Now couple your math with Randy's championship points, and you begin to see a very different tally. Rossi suffered from a serious mechanical. Its almost like a mechanical DNF where he rode to the finish anyway.

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You already had checkmate there, but there's no problem continuing to debate. The point I am proposing is that every single issue Rossi has had so far this year has been reported faithfully by the press. And the number of excuses is getting towards Max Biaggi proportions. For all I know Randy may get false neutrals on his 'lesser' gearbox every race?

Jumkie said:

You are not following the thread and who I was replying to, were you. I was reply to this guy who tried to make a point that Rossi is getting paid too much if he can get beat by RDp. I was explaining to him that during the race, Rossi experienced more problems, hence lower finishing order.











My reply:







So what is your point? Sure, Rossi had a dismal qualifying, but that was more due to the fact he crashed in the session and didn't have time to get the best set up for the last run. This is common when riders crash. But the point is what happened during the RACE. And during the race Rossi experienced multiple problems, one of which was major. You say "Obviously a dodgy gearbox doesn't help..." Marginalizing this problem is laughable. He was lucky to finish the race, and did so at some risk, as a false neutral can cause a crash. Had he retired early, you might be saying he's a quitter (well maybe not you, but certainly the guy I was replying to).



As I said above, you want to sing Randy's praises because he beat Rossi in one race? I wrote this above: Do yourself a favor and check the number of self inflicted DNFs by Randy. Karel Abraham, who supposedly bought his way into MotoGP sits higher in points. Randy is not even beating his teammate on points, and that is after this Earth shattering 8th finish you and the other guy are clamoring about. The only guys Randy is beating in points is John Hopkins, who has one race (and a Jap test rider)!



So again, what's your point, as it seemed you didn't follow the line of exchange. Are you saying that Randy is a better rider than Rossi? Have you checked where Randy sits on points? This was Randy's best finish of the entire season; it happen to come on the day where Rossi had problems. So what's your point?

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1: Your right I came in part way through the thread and I do apologise, I was having a quick look at the forums between work and decided to send a quick response to this thread.



2: I still think I make a valid point which was for some reason Rossi experience problems this weekend that for some reason even his experience couldn't overcome. I wasn't trying to be derogatory towards Rossi but obviously he had some sort of issue even prior to the race.



3: If the second part of your response was aimed at me read on otherwise just ignore it. I'm not quite sure if you think I was singing Rdp's praises, I wasn't. In fact I didn't even mention him.



Cheers



Gecko

funny how stoner had the best bike in 2007



and suddenly he has the best bike again in 2011



the seamless box yamaha had for many years. JB already said so. and Ducati had it since the 11.1 yet hasnt done squat with it. yet the honda is still the best?

Jumkie said:

You are not following the thread and who I was replying to, were you. I was reply to this guy who tried to make a point that Rossi is getting paid too much if he can get beat by RDp. I was explaining to him that during the race, Rossi experienced more problems, hence lower finishing order.











My reply:







So what is your point? Sure, Rossi had a dismal qualifying, but that was more due to the fact he crashed in the session and didn't have time to get the best set up for the last run. This is common when riders crash. But the point is what happened during the RACE. And during the race Rossi experienced multiple problems, one of which was major. You say "Obviously a dodgy gearbox doesn't help..." Marginalizing this problem is laughable. He was lucky to finish the race, and did so at some risk, as a false neutral can cause a crash. Had he retired early, you might be saying he's a quitter (well maybe not you, but certainly the guy I was replying to).



As I said above, you want to sing Randy's praises because he beat Rossi in one race? I wrote this above: Do yourself a favor and check the number of self inflicted DNFs by Randy. Karel Abraham, who supposedly bought his way into MotoGP sits higher in points. Randy is not even beating his teammate on points, and that is after this Earth shattering 8th finish you and the other guy are clamoring about. The only guys Randy is beating in points is John Hopkins, who has one race (and a Jap test rider)!



So again, what's your point, as it seemed you didn't follow the line of exchange. Are you saying that Randy is a better rider than Rossi? Have you checked where Randy sits on points? This was Randy's best finish of the entire season; it happen to come on the day where Rossi had problems. So what's your point?

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Point is, Rdp spends more time in the sand trap than on the track, when most others have sorted the track and find grip he looses it !!

So with this in mind how does Rdp do what no one else could do and make that alledgedly unusable chassis work for the duration of race at a track with such a grip issue and the current tyre problems i keep hearing about ??

Does this mean he is more talented than vale because he beat him in one race, hell no..

Does it raise a question as to how was this achieved, hell yeah.



And for the record if you believe Rossi encountering false neutrals during the race as part of the reason for poor performance you were born yesterday !!

I dont buy any of his dribble. Especially after hearing about the "shoulder" and "time to learn the bike" spiels over and over at the start of the season, we have moved on from those two ailments and tyres, chassis and forks were the next issues culminating at Indy with a new problem being false neutrals....please,

and critics on this forum are quick to point the finger to Casey's little rants pre race which i believe are partly to throw the opposition as does Jorge...



Just my opinion, this is an "open forum" and every one is entitled to express there's but sometimes Vale fans need to take a good hard look at them selves, because imo he aint all that !



Cheers

Gumby, clearly you either have never ridden a bike, and or never ridden a bike at race pace. False neutrals going up the box are bad enough, causing a real lack in drive which ..... u and the bloke slipstreaming u. False neutrals going down the box is even worse as u are jamming on the anchors at ur marker, and expecting the brakes and clutch to slow u down, but when the clutch doesn't lock up, u will most likely run wide trying to pull the bike up.



Maybe u could take this little pearl of wisdom and teach Rossi how to ride properly.

All those who said that Stoner was just riding the best TC, or that he was fast, yes, but psychologically weak, or who made fun of him at the time of the lactose intolerance calling him a ....., should now take their hats in their hands and apologize to him. Period.

J4rn0 said:

All those who said that Stoner was just riding the best TC, or that he was fast, yes, but psychologically weak, or who made fun of him at the time of the lactose intolerance calling him a ....., should now take their hats in their hands and apologize to him. Period.

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There is a very long queue.......Talpa, Curve, Roger, Babelfish etc etc...................................................

birdman said:

You already had checkmate there, but there's no problem continuing to debate. The point I am proposing is that every single issue Rossi has had so far this year has been reported faithfully by the press. And the number of excuses is getting towards Max Biaggi proportions. For all I know Randy may get false neutrals on his 'lesser' gearbox every race?

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I don't disagree with you in principle there, as I've said the same thing. Its a Rossi-centric media. But honestly, I think if Randy was getting false neutrals, it would have been at very least reported by his team in the press releases. But sure, I get what you are saying, if Rossi gets a finger nail broken its front page news a gpone. haha. In his defense, he's had a large fan base, and loved by more than all the other riders combined currently.



You may have read my very long Hayden apologias, in some I mention its too bad that the other riders who have dedicated their lives get so easily overlooked. But we are all to blame partly. I mean, look, I's see peeps slag off Capirossi, a man who's went from bad (Suzuki) to worse (Ducati). Yet, he's the washed up old man, right? Well that washed up old man would probably be midpack tomorrow on a factory Honda Yamaha bike (certainly not last). Its this kind of assessment that allows the media to focus on the darling winning without the analysis of the machine under him. As I said earlier last week, I've read a rash of "what's wrong with Ducati" this year, but I don't recall reading so many "what's wrong with Suzuki". Why? Because the riders of those other brands are not as important as the one guy now riding Ducati. It sucks. But its true. Its not Rossi's fault that they want to write about him.

Gecko Hunter said:

1: Your right I came in part way through the thread and I do apologise, I was having a quick look at the forums between work and decided to send a quick response to this thread.



2: I still think I make a valid point which was for some reason Rossi experience problems this weekend that for some reason even his experience couldn't overcome. I wasn't trying to be derogatory towards Rossi but obviously he had some sort of issue even prior to the race.



3: If the second part of your response was aimed at me read on otherwise just ignore it. I'm not quite sure if you think I was singing Rdp's praises, I wasn't. In fact I didn't even mention him.

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Ah yes friend, hence my wondering if you had followed the line of exchanges. All very good and fair enough, and the RDp part was more at the guy I was originally replying to (and thought you were agreeing with); as this was more directed as an addendum to his idea that Rossi compared to Randy, was being over paid.

gumby1 said:

Point is, Rdp spends more time in the sand trap than on the track, when most others have sorted the track and find grip he looses it !!

So with this in mind how does Rdp do what no one else could do and make that alledgedly unusable chassis work for the duration of race at a track with such a grip issue and the current tyre problems i keep hearing about ??

Does this mean he is more talented than vale because he beat him in one race, hell no..

Does it raise a question as to how was this achieved, hell yeah.



And for the record if you believe Rossi encountering false neutrals during the race as part of the reason for poor performance you were born yesterday !!

I dont buy any of his dribble. Especially after hearing about the "shoulder" and "time to learn the bike" spiels over and over at the start of the season, we have moved on from those two ailments and tyres, chassis and forks were the next issues culminating at Indy with a new problem being false neutrals....please,

and critics on this forum are quick to point the finger to Casey's little rants pre race which i believe are partly to throw the opposition as does Jorge...



Just my opinion, this is an "open forum" and every one is entitled to express there's but sometimes Vale fans need to take a good hard look at them selves, because imo he aint all that !



Cheers

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Well thanks for your input, but I disagree. Randy's performance was nice, but as you concede, a one off a season does NOT make. So why even compare this to Rossi? And then go so far as to say, Rossi compared to Randy may be overpaid?



I'm not in a position to claim Rossi was lying about false neutrals. Its a common thing in racing to experience problems. If I'm gonna say he was lying then I have to question the integrity of all riders, like Spies when he said he had a screwed up lever, or Crutchlow when he said he had a bum tire, or Stoner when he said he had problems with tire pressure. This is what happens when man-made machines and crews push the limit, sometimes mechanical and mistakes happen, but maybe I was born yesterday to believe this could effect them in a race, eh? I mean, false neutrals, if you chose to accept it are a severe issue to maintain race pace. Its not as easy as these guys make it look on the television.

J4rn0 said:

All those who said that Stoner was just riding the best TC, or that he was fast, yes, but psychologically weak, or who made fun of him at the time of the lactose intolerance calling him a ....., should now take their hats in their hands and apologize to him. Period.

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While you are asking for apologies, are you ever going to apologize for saying nothing exceptional was being developed at Ducati for Rossi?