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That was new for everyone, not just Rossi.
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That was new for everyone, not just Rossi.
So, you are saying that Stoners Ducati has been the best bike on the track during his wins over the last 4 years! Well, that certainly does fly in the face of all the evidence we have seen this year. Anyway, continue.
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Just out of curiosity, when did this become your belief?
I think j4rno was being overly generous because everyone was on a new bike in 2007, even if stoner was on a bike for a new manufacturer in addition. Previous experience on the 990 ducati didn't appear to help loris capirossi, and imo all of the 800 bikes were radically different from the 990 bikes of the previous year, the ducati most of all.
Sorry for calling you a fan of both rossi and stoner j4rno btw, you are better described as someone who genuinely appreciates both riders.
Mackie, on 17 August 2011 - 04:38 PM, said:My belief and point is that the rider no longer can make the difference with what is inferior machinery.
I was going to ask the same question, the "no longer" implies this is a recent change in belief.
Might I suggest a timing of around 09:00am on November 8, 2010!!!!
If you really are totally new to the forum I apologise for over-reacting, you are the victim of literally thousands of debates over more than 4 years concerning the role of bike advantages in any success stoner may have had.
You may have a point with the argumentum ad hominem, although whilst I criticised your opinions rather trenchantly my main criticism of your character was that you were really a rossi fan
This all goes back a very long way on this forum. You rightly point out that current criticism of rossi is ridiculous, but you should perhaps consider its genesis. This is not, imo, a case of bitter small minded people when confronted with the glory that is valentino having no reaction other than to wish to tear him down. There actually are people, misguided or not, who for narrow reasons of patriotism or whatever are fans of other riders and enjoy their success, and carping about whatever small (comparatively) success these riders have by attributing it to advantages is annoying to such people. The essential argument usually ends up being that such riders must have advantages or they wouldn't be winning, and certainly wouldn't be beating valentino in particular. I don't consider this argument to be valid, and imo it is pointless to discuss advantages in a prototype series where the best riders ending up on the best bikes has always been a major component of the game anyway.
I agree with you that the current formula is not good, and has detracted from many of the traditional riding skills, and even more definitely from racing. Riding these bikes rapidly though is as hard as it has ever been though, as the number of crashes attests. As I have said previously nobody could be competitive on this current ducati, I strongly doubt stoner could win a race on it against the current opposition , but I don't think the bike was competitive last year either, and his wins on the gp10 should now be recognised as somewhat remarkable rather than his riding being blamed for the deficiencies of the bike as was often the case last year.
What would appear de novo to be anti-rossi bias on this thread is also imo coloured by the basis of the thread, an article which is attempting to argue that valentino is somehow doing better than stoner would be doing on the current flawed ducati. Valentino is certainly the guy you would pick to try and fix the thing, he imo is much more likely to fix it than stoner particularly with jb's assistance, more money and the ducati engineers being more open to change, and he may well be superior to stoner on every other bike he has ridden and every previous gp racing bike in history. What he isn't however is better at riding 800 ducati gp bikes on current evidence. Whether he should be trying to be as fast as stoner on the thing is entirely another question; his current plan of not killing himself by over-riding the thing with no chance of winning anyway while pulling out all stops to fix it seems pretty reasonable to me.
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Have you seen the latest over on Kropo's site, the Duc's latest improvements supposedly came from a change in the front axle fork mounts to make them more similar to the other bikes on the grid. The article on MCN also states they asked for this at the beginning of the season and just now they are finally getting the parts with JB going on to say "Ducati brought the parts and they were built the way they should have been built in the first place", this is so sad and I hope the engineers over at Ducati are going to take JB more seriously, if something is proven to work than just use it. Ducati are truly a bunch of amateurs, this actually makes me feel sorry for Casey. Just make a bike that works with proven technology instead of trying to reinvent the motorcycle, get the little things right before you try to "innovate". Hopefully Ducati start pumping these parts out and gets them onto every Duc on the grid
I also dislike all the this rider had this or that talk, and agree that the best rider should be on the best bike. As a fan I want great racing but I also want to see a rider come along and challenge because he has the talent and heart to make up the difference.
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Why overly generous? In 3 years Stoner went from 250cc two stroke Aprilia to Honda 990 on Michelin to Ducati 800 on Bridgestone. Hell of a thing for a rookie to do that and win the title, his first w/c at 21 against Rossi. As a one off title I cant think of anything that compares? Keep it in there j4rno.
As for Rossi, he has the 125cc, 250cc, 500cc, 990cc, 800cc record. Damn impressive that.
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My belief and point is that the rider no longer can make the difference with what is inferior machinery.
I was going to ask the same question, the "no longer" implies this is a recent change in belief.
Might I suggest a timing of around 09:00am on November 8, 2010!!!!
I think thats a day early, moto2 ran on the monday gp's were out on the tuesday 9th lol
Wows, BIG MAN!!! You and that ‘lil red rocket pilot’ (that is what he is LITTLE) must ejaculate every time you put someone down you are a bunch of fuckwits!! And I say this in a nice way…and when you say ‘I can’t wait for your reply’ this is what sort of a fucken ..... you really are because Mr GOD ‘STONER’ will prove you wrong in every way (but your just a ....... that thinks that you know it all) WRONG…he’s doing it NOW ‘proving all of you WRONGT! HES THE FASTEST AND leading the W/Chip…you are a tool that is not even worth using or taking too seriously!!! Reading your posts and ‘lil red rocket pilot’ you both come from the same ilk!!! How unfortunate and how sad that useare a bunch of fuckwits like the another post that I've described to you ‘basspete’ from the past. ALL DISSSTRUCTIVE WITH ‘NO’ SUBSTANCE and never ever within reality!! .... off you turd and ‘JUST COMPLY TO THE INNEVEITABEL’!!! AND THAT IS THAT STONER IS A WORLD BEATER!!! YOU’RE A ...... THAT GETS HIS THRILLS FROM THIS FORUM AND THIS FORUM ‘ONLY’…I've read your posts and I know what you really are and that is a…to put it in your language …A TOOL UN UNCONDITIONL .... TRIRER THAT GETS HIS THRILLS FROM THE SO CALLED ‘BULLSHITR AND THE OBJECTIVE OF THIS FORUM’ AND THE LAUGHS THAT YOU THINK YOU GET FROM YOUR ....... IKLS!! GIVE IT UP ‘basspete’ cause YOURE JUST A fucken internet whore that only gets his pleasure from putting others down!!! .... OFF …I will never reply to your posts again!!! Your ‘NOT WORTH IT’ and Mr Stoner will be the GREATEST RIDER IN Motogp!!! YOU MARK MY WORDS…IF YOU DON’T IT WILL BE TO YOURE PERRIL!!!!
THAT IS WHY YOURE A SCOTS MAN & THE SCOTS ALWAYS HAVE A PINOCCIO NOSE & NEVER EVE TELL THE TRUTH…THEY ACHIVE NOTHING!!! OHH SORRY THE BEST THING THAT’S EVER COME OUT OF SCOTLAND IS ‘SCOTCH’ & I'm VERY PARIAL TO IT heheeeeee YOURE A ....... 'basspete' and you never ever will hurt me!!! I LOVE YOURE REPLIES ...PLZZZZ AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET YOUR LADYBOYS TO RESPOND AND GIVE ME A LAUGH!!!...like ‘lil red rocket pilot’ or whoever else is on your side…BUT I DON’T THINK THERE IS MANY OUT THERE!!!
YOURE A ....... 'basspete' and you never ever will hurt me!!! I LOVE YOURE REPLIES ...PLZZZZ AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET YOUR LADYBOYS TO RESPOND AND GIVE ME A LAUGH!!!...like ‘lil red rocket pilot’ or who ever else is on your side…BUT I DON’T THINK THERE IS MANY OUT THERE!!!
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When I mentioned riders winning at their debut on a new bike I was referring to a change of brand or manufacturer by that rider. On the other hand when formulas change it's the same for everybody. In 2007 Stoner changed manufacturer (besides the general change from 990 to 800). He also changed (happily) from Michelin to Bridgestones. These concomitant changes certainly do not detract but actually add to the value of his first title.
When I mentioned riders winning at their debut on a new bike I was referring to a change of brand or manufacturer by that rider. On the other hand when formulas change it's the same for everybody. In 2007 Stoner changed manufacturer (besides the general change from 990 to 800). He also changed (happily) from Michelin to Bridgestones. These concomitant changes certainly do not detract but actually add to the value of his first title.
You could also say though that changing from Michelin to Bridgestone after just 1 year was an advantage to him as him as the bike was designed to run those tyres and since he wasnt too set in his ways, it was easy for him to get used to them, which makes his 2007 title the easiest title to win...EVER
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Oh Dear!!!!
Sounds like someone got out of the wrong side of the bed today!!!
Whats up sonny has mummy taken away your sweeties?
