Rossi Out After Malaysia

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Well Barry you have failed to see my take on it.



Close racing when these guys are on the limit will result in a bit of paint swapping, obviously in a perfect world there would be no contact at all but thats not how things work in the real world.

Contact has been happening for as long as i can remember & all of these guys are culprits, Rossi just seems to be a lot more as he always is fighting for the title.



Kalio smacking Melandri about last year

Rossi against Biaggi, Stoner, Gravelplow, Lorenzo

Lorenzo against almost the entire 250 grid & some motogp riders for good measure - A la Nicky hayden at PI last year (That guys luck just never changes).



My point is as long as its not an audition for the human torpedo in the sink the Bismark re-make i cant see the problem. These guys are paid millions as they are the best, stop whining & get on with it.



Rossi hasnt always won the fight either, stoners pass at the Sachesenring was a thing of beauty, especially as it was striaght out of Rossi own tactics book! Ha Rossi got Rossi'd
<
 
Pinky said:
wow what a whining friggen ..... rossi is. he cant take any criticism and now sits out rest of season? what a pansy. no respect at all. why not stick it more to horhey? what ...... all his antics have suggested he is a ....., divided garage, single tire, electronics and now this. what a fucken .....!!!!
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3-0 in one on one battles......



yeah a total ......
 
Keshav said:
Perhaps not - but Stoner issued statements saying he was too ill to ride. Barring real evidence

to the contrary - that should have been the end of the matter
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Expecting it to be the end of the matter is a tad optimistic, expecting less speculation is not so optimistic. I was trying to highlight the same thing I'm always trying to highlight "We don't know", we can't know if stoner was ill or if Rossi has a bad shoulder. & Accepting their personal statements is down to a matter of opinion & respect, which are respectively exagerated & magnified on this forum.



but all the Stoner haters

became self-schooled overnight experts on chronic fatigue - calling Stoner a faker, out

of what can only be described as meanness of spirit and petty spitefulness.
Click to expand...
There's that swinging door again, my word of the day is "escalation".
 
johnnyvvc said:
Well Barry you have failed to see my take on it.



No I just think your take is wrong.



Kalio smacking Melandri about last year

Rossi against Biaggi, Stoner, Gravelplow, Lorenzo

Lorenzo against almost the entire 250 grid & some motogp riders for good measure - A la Nicky hayden at PI last year (That guys luck just never changes).



Where you indeed seem to have failed to see my point is that many of the above scuffles were just racing incidents purely motivated by the need/want to gain another place.



Rossi when frustrated gets all huffy about singular other riders and that is his motivation to be involved in a scuffle with that rider or indeed attept to hang with them even when his pace suggest he should just let them go.
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michaelm said:
I have not been participating in the general post-motegi rossi bashing (not much anyway
<
) but I think double standards regarding valentino's shoulder injury are one thing they have got you guys on.



Even leaving aside the 2009 lactose intolerance thing, I see very close parallels between stoner's scaphoid problem at the end of 2008 and rossi's current shoulder problem. Both are not obvious to the naked eye, both eventually required/ will require surgery, and both varied in their effects at different circuits/races. I don't find anything inconsistent in the latter; different circuits are going to stress things differently, on circuits where the bike or the set-up of the bike is better there is likely to be less strain on the injuries, and if a rider is doing well enough to battle close to the front adrenaline can be an effective analgesic and a rider is more likely to want to put up with pain anyway.



So I don't think rossi is faking his shoulder at all, but neither was stoner faking the scaphoid in 2008. I don't necessarily agree with applying the same flawed arguments to rossi now though.
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Why quote my post then leave aside my point ?

Im asking if a lactose intolerance condition so bad that it made you ill enough to go fishing for 3 weeks instead of fighting for a championship could come on overnight?. Im sure stoner was drinking milk ect in 07 without any problems. My other point was how so many doctors missed this diagnosis and why the actual facts behind the lactose intolerance diagnosis were deemed 'personal' by stoner.

i have no doubts about stoners wrist, like rossis shoulder the details of these injures were/are discussed on tv. Stoner had a piece of bone that had died and rossi has a tendon that has come away from the bone and need's stapling back in place. There was nothing on stoners lactose intolerance other than a statement "It's personal".
 
Goatboy said:
Expecting it to be the end of the matter is a tad optimistic, expecting less speculation is not so optimistic. I was trying to highlight the same thing I'm always trying to highlight "We don't know", we can't know if stoner was ill or if Rossi has a bad shoulder. & Accepting their personal statements is down to a matter of opinion & respect, which are respectively exagerated & magnified on this forum.



There's that swinging door again, my word of the day is "escalation".
Click to expand...



I for one have cast no aspersions regarding the legitimacy of Rossi's shoulder injury.

I have no trouble understanding how a person can waiver back and forth from one

day to the next re: how an injury may or may not affect performance.
 
Keshav said:
I for one have cast no aspersions regarding the legitimacy of Rossi's shoulder injury.

I have no trouble understanding how a person can waiver back and forth from one

day to the next re: how an injury may or may not affect performance.
Click to expand...
I never said you did
<
 
Keshav said:
I for one have cast no aspersions regarding the legitimacy of Rossi's shoulder injury.

I have no trouble understanding how a person can waiver back and forth from one

day to the next re: how an injury may or may not affect performance.
Click to expand...

No, thats DR Povol's job
<
 
chopperman said:
Why quote my post then leave aside my point ?

Im asking if a lactose intolerance condition so bad that it made you ill enough to go fishing for 3 weeks instead of fighting for a championship could come on overnight?. Im sure stoner was drinking milk ect in 07 without any problems. My other point was how so many doctors missed this diagnosis and why the actual facts behind the lactose intolerance diagnosis were deemed 'personal' by stoner.

i have no doubts about stoners wrist, like rossis shoulder the details of these injures were/are discussed on tv. Stoner had a piece of bone that had died and rossi has a tendon that has come away from the bone and need's stapling back in place. There was nothing on stoners lactose intolerance other than a statement "It's personal".
Click to expand...



You've clamped down on the phrase "Lactose Intolerance" like a dog with a bone. I don't recall any official statement

upon Stoner's return that specified lactose intolerance as being the one and only issue. During the heat of this whole

debate it was pointed out that chronic fatigue as an illness has only in the last ten years created a new wide-open field

of inquiry in the medical arts which isn't even close to a unified agreement on the cause(s) never mind the treatment of

this disease. The one thing practioners do seem to agree on is the unlikelihood of it having only one cause. It is essentially

an immune system deficiency and many things - especially stress and lack of rest exacerbate it. I speak from experience.

If it's still largely a mystery to the medical profession - it stands to reason that this disease isn't even close to knowable by

the likes of the regular joes who people this forum. For anyone here with no personal experience of this illness - it's hubris

at best to attempt to quantify the seriousness of CFS and it's affects on Stoner.
 
chopperman said:
Why quote my post then leave aside my point ?

Im asking if a lactose intolerance condition so bad that it made you ill enough to go fishing for 3 weeks instead of fighting for a championship could come on overnight?. Im sure stoner was drinking milk ect in 07 without any problems. My other point was how so many doctors missed this diagnosis and why the actual facts behind the lactose intolerance diagnosis were deemed 'personal' by stoner.

i have no doubts about stoners wrist, like rossis shoulder the details of these injures were/are discussed on tv. Stoner had a piece of bone that had died and rossi has a tendon that has come away from the bone and need's stapling back in place. There was nothing on stoners lactose intolerance other than a statement "It's personal".
Click to expand...

i obviously agree with you about the lactose intolerance/cfs thing, recognise your personal perspective, and supported your posts at the time. My vague recollection is that lactose intolerance is more common in asians where the enzyme often runs out fairly early in childhood; I think it can occur later in caucasians and reasonably suddenly, although if I recall stoner had not felt quite right for a while.



I just thought the shoulder and the scaphoid was comparing like with like for those who only recognise surgical conditions, which was not uncommon among actual surgeons in my youth.(EDIT I did say even leaving aside).
 
Keshav said:
You've clamped down on the phrase "Lactose Intolerance" like a dog with a bone. I don't recall any official statement

upon Stoner's return that specified lactose intolerance as being the one and only issue. During the heat of this whole

debate it was pointed out that chronic fatigue as an illness has only in the last ten years created a new wide-open field

of inquiry in the medical arts which isn't even close to a unified agreement on the cause(s) never mind the treatment of

this disease. The one thing practioners do seem to agree on is the unlikelihood of it having only one cause. It is essentially

an immune system deficiency and many things - especially stress and lack of rest exaserbate it. I speak from experience.

If it's still largely a mystery to the medical profession - it stands to reason that this disease is even close to knowable by

the likes of the regular joes who people this forum. For anyone here with no personal experience of this illness - it's hubris

at best to attempt to quantify the seriousness of CFS and it's affects on Stoner.
Click to expand...

That because this was the reason given on tv at the time but as i said there was nothing official because it's "personal"!
<
Now your banging on about CFS. Was this a diagnosis from stoners doctors ? of course it wasnt, stoner refused to comment on his condition !
 
michaelm said:
although if I recall stoner had not felt quite right for a while.
Click to expand...



Stoner said he first started really suffering with symptoms at Jerez in 2009, though he had suffered tiredness in previous years, and never really put it down to anything. For what it's worth, it did not come on overnight, it probably appeared over the course of 3-6 months.
 
chopperman said:
That because this was the reason given on tv at the time but as i said there was nothing official because it's "personal"!
<
Now your banging on about CFS. Was this a diagnosis from stoners doctors ? of course it wasnt, stoner refused to comment on his condition !
Click to expand...

I think someone (perhaps even keshav) posted something scientific a little later which indicated lactose intolerance could cause cfs, something I certainly didn't know.
 
michaelm said:
I think someone (perhaps even keshav) posted something scientific a little later which indicated lactose intolerance could cause cfs, something I certainly didn't know.
Click to expand...

I thought he said there was very little scientifically on cfs at the moment ! but im sure any illness could cause fatigue. The fatigue being a symptom not a cause. It's the cause we were all hoping would be established but casey chose to keep what ever those finding were as private. Now some here are trying to compare this to Rossi's injury, saying its not like we can see whats inside rossis shoulder. That's true and if you want to be a doubting Thomas like povol you can try to use this as some lame reason to claim rossi is faking this to .... yam. Rossi's shoulder to us is as invisible as casey's illness except rossi and his people have told us what the problem is, caseys did not ! I wonder why not ?
 
chopperman said:
I thought he said there was very little scientifically on cfs at the moment ! but im sure any illness could cause fatigue. The fatigue being a symptom not a cause. It's the cause we were all hoping would be established but casey chose to keep what ever those finding were as private.
Click to expand...



Stoner has spoken openly several times about the fact that the tests seemed to show that his problem was lactose intolerance. He has also mentioned a couple of times that he'd had a slight recurrence of symptoms due to eating something that had a milk product in it. So as far as I can see, he's never made a secret of it.
 
Babelfish said:
calling Yamaha diplomatic is about as fair as calling Pedrosa a stand-up comedian.

This is not about being fair or not, they went public and by doing that threw away every shred of diplomacy. This is of course Lin Jarvis' work and he probably got what he asked for.
Click to expand...



You made a similar point in the Motegi thread.



Babelfish said:
But what Yamaha did was just plain wrong. They picked on the wrong man and they went public. BLARGHH.
Click to expand...





Have you considered Yamaha's perspective? They are protecting their title (after all, they provide the hardware,employ the teams and pay riders well) and their recently signed rider who they will have to work with the following year. The other rider has decided to leave, despite a reasonable offer to stay (who is on record as saying it wasn't the money). You say Yamaha did not act diplomatic. All they 'asked' of the leaving rider is to ride with a bit more margin of safety when battling fellow Yamaha rides. Tell me, what is the problem here? They didn't say let the other rider by, as some have in error implied team orders. Yamaha (the four principals) said that an aggressive battle was not wise from their perspective. They have invested money in both, and one must ride next year for them (hopefully injury free). The video is there, who executed clean passes and who initiated the contact is indisputable, as its on video. You said that Lorenzo "attacked" first. Watch it again, it was a contact free pass countered with a contact that was made because the line was not conceded by the passed rider. So are you saying a contact free pass is an "attack"? If anything, answer this question, which pass did Lorenzo initiate contact? From Yamaha's perspective, that counter contact is not necessary (which is where the contact occurred). The passed rider, if he was infact faster could have waited for the next opportunity to make a clean pass (exactly the type of clean pass that was done on him at T5). They even go on to acknowledge, from a sporting perspective, close racing is spectacular, but this is not Yamaha's interest when done between their riders for which they employ and invest. This is not reasonable to you?
 
Tom said:
The difference between the two scenarios is that the effect on the results was much clearler in Stoner's case, so if anything his illness is more believable







That attitude works for Rossi, thats about as good as a seal of approval gets
Click to expand...



I've never seen Rossi compare himself with Gibernau, Stoner and Biaggi and complaining about how hard "that Rossi guy " were riding.

That's what Lorenzo did, putting him self on that very same list.
 

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