Rossi on the Ducati and the Future

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Rossi got a full factory 99 spec bike in 2000 fully developed by Mr Doohan over a 7 year period,this bike was so good Max blew them all away in his first race,Alex took over devlopment of the Repsol bikes in 2000 after winning the title in 99 after Doohans crash and retirment . Rossi hardly put it back on track,it was a fantastic package allready.

Yes, that is what I said, alex criville, a world champion on the previous world championship winning bike took it rapidly backwards for the factory team and when they started listening to rossi, then in his rookie year, things turned around for his quasi factory one bike team .



This thread is totally ridiculous, sure stoner copped much unfair criticism, but as lex who has no horse in the race has said rossi and jb can and have developed and sorted many bikes prior to the unsortable ducati. Furasawa obviously was a very significant contibutor to rossi's success at yamaha, and to yamaha's near decade long ascendancy in general, but he gives great credit to rossi and has continued to do so during the period rossi hasn't been a yamaha rider. Perhaps it is coincidence that rossi and furasawa had such a great synergy, just as it was mostly accidental that stoner happened to be just the right person to ride the 2007 ducati, but I don't see how this diminishes the achievements of rossi and furasawa (or stoner for that matter).
 
Yes, that is what I said, alex criville, a world champion on the previous world championship winning bike took it rapidly backwards for the factory team and when they started listening to rossi, then in his rookie year, things turned around for his quasi factory one bike team .



Rapidly backwards?

Rapidly?

What did he do to it, except ride it worse than Mr Doohan?

And as for Rossi.

What did he do it it, except ride it better than Mr Criville?
 
This thread is totally ridiculous



Agree. Some people are revising history to create a foundation for new rants.



MA's theories are particularly vexing. Boppers have predetermined that Ducati will be at fault if the Ducati/Rossi experiment fails; therefore, if the experiment fails, Rossi must be to blame b/c the Boppers are never accidentally correct.



I'm sure there is a psychological disorder for this kind of deduction.........mental anarchism, perhaps.
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Rapidly backwards?

Rapidly?

What did he do to it, except ride it worse than Mr Doohan?

And as for Rossi.

What did he do it it, except ride it better than Mr Criville?

Alex won on the bike mick (and jb) built in 1999, and was often reasonably close to mick prior to that when they were both factory honda riders. Once he was in charge of development his results dropped like a stone, and if I recall the other factory honda rider didn't do so well either.



Why is deriding rossi's ( great) achievements any more justifiable than deriding stoner's, if I may ask?.



(EDIT I looked it up, which I didn't need to do since I watched it at the time and enjoyed garry mccoy's exploits that season, but criville and okada finished 1st and 3rd in 1999 but 9th and 11th in 2000).
 
Window-dressing.

Seriously, do you think the wall was a good idea? Acceptable?

No, NO, it is a fact that bridgestone insisted. That he maintained it after the control tyre came in is perhaps a different argument, but he has been consistent in saying that the one bike nastro azzurro honda team was his ideal. I don't have a particular problem with him not wanting to share data, mick doohan had exactly the same attitude, and as it transpired jorge and forcada didn't need any assistance to get a good set-up anyway.
 
Alex won on the bike mick (and jb) built in 1999, and was often reasonably close to mick when they were the 2 factory riders. Once he was in charge of development his results dropped like a stone, and if I recall the other factory honda rider didn't do so well either.



Why is deriding rossi's ( great) achievements any more justifiable than deriding stoner's, if I may ask?.



I think you are mistaking my questioning of your recollection of the 1999-2000 development of the NSR500 for derision of Rossi's achievements.
 
I think you are mistaking my questioning of your recollection of the 1999-2000 development of the NSR500 for derision of Rossi's achievements.

Sure, fair comment, I am conflating the posts of multiple people on this thread, some of whom I generally agree with.



FWIW I have run a consistent line of argument on here regarding this matter for several years, and see no reason to change my opinion now. I said before rossi went to ducati that stoner couldn't develop the thing because the bike from 2010 on at least was an undevelopable pig, and that rossi would be unable to fix it and this would be proof of it being unfixable.



Sure rossi is no engineer , but someone still needs to sort the bikes and give direction to the engineers/designers, and it is hard to see how anyone could have done better than he did with his bikes prior to the ducati; of course he was given good base material to work with, but it is not unprecedented in gp racing for the best rider to end up with the best equipment.
 
No, NO, it is a fact that bridgestone insisted. That he maintained it after the control tyre came in is perhaps a different argument, but he has been consistent in saying that the one bike nastro azzurro honda team was his ideal. I don't have a particular problem with him not wanting to share data, mick doohan had exactly the same attitude, and as it transpired jorge and forcada didn't need any assistance to get a good set-up anyway.



Fair enough.

I know you guys will take this as just another biased attack on Rossi and will place me in the Boner camp.

But the wall (to concede a point: the wall post-08) was just pathetic, Your point that Jorge's team were adept at getting results out of the M1 anyway, merely reinforces how infantile it was.
 
Sure, fair comment, I am conflating the posts of multiple people on this thread, some of whom I generally agree with.



FWIW I have run a consistent line of argument on here regarding this matter for several years, and see no reason to change my opinion now. I said before rossi went to ducati that stoner couldn't develop the thing because the bike from 2010 on at least was an undevelopable pig, and that rossi would be unable to fix it and this would be proof of it being unfixable.



Sure rossi is no engineer , but someone still needs to sort the bikes and give direction to the engineers/designers, and it is hard to see how anyone could have done better than he did with his bikes prior to the ducati; of course he was given good base material to work with, but it is not unprecedented in gp racing for the best rider to end up with the best equipment.

No. The inability of Rossi to set-up the Ducati completely cancels out any development work and negates his ability to provide feedback. Past, Present and Future.
 
No. The inability of Rossi to set-up the Ducati completely cancels out any development work and negates his ability to provide feedback. Past, Present and Future.



Scotty, good to see you finally figured out that pesky caps lock button.
 
I strongly believe that Rossi will win the championship next year. He will be ridiculously hungry, and being back on the best bike on the grid will make a race weekend so easy for him in comparison to what he has had the past 2 years. As Krop has written. Riding racing bikes really ....... fast requires confidence above all else. The Yamaha will give Rossi the confidence and he will win the year. I think he will then retire.



2014. Repsol and Dorna will see to it that Marquez wins and the sport will be focused on him like it has Rossi.



Lorenzo won't win another championship. Pedrosa will never win one.

Wow. Quite some predictions. I think Rossi will be hungry, no doubt about that. But will he have the confidence, the stamina, and the ability? Personally, I doubt it. I think those two years at Ducati will have seriously damaged that all important confidence which is needed to win at this level. Two whole years of being humbled by Jorge, Dani and Casey. Two whole years with zero wins. Even Stoner brought home victories during his infamous "lactose intolerance" year. The best the GOAT could manage on the Duke for two years was a gifted podium in 2011, a second in the wet at Le Mans this year, and another second when Dani and Casey were not in the race. Surely, that has to sting. He has looked like a cripple on that bike for the last two years. His comments about next year don't resemble the comments of a hungry man with a driven will to win. He now sounds like a man who is desperate to salvage some dignity. Sure, he has vast experience, titles, and talent. But that youthful killer instinct seems to have worn away. Anyway, next year will be interesting.



As for Jorge. I can't see him losing next year. He is in incredible form. For the first half or two thirds of the season he was untouchable. I really don't think Dani had a shot this year. I think Dani rode very well, but his performances were perhaps exaggerated because Stoner's focus was on retirement and Jorge seemed happy to just cruise around the track in second for the latter part of the season as he had already secured enough points.



I tend to agree that Dani won't win a title. However, next year will perhaps be his best (and last) chance...
 
I have come to the conclusion that there will always be another ....... nutter to come along.
 
Except on the Ducati...it seems that youth and general ignorance are the way forward
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What I want to know is it wasn't this awful before 07/08 so why can't they go back to a trellis framed style bike? Sure I know that its hard to make 2 frames have the same moment characteristics but at least they had bikes that were near the front
 
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I'd guess because of t tyres? Worth trying... worth trying anything to get the .5-1 sec that Dovi and Nicky need to be competitive - or at least in front of all the satellite teams!![/background]
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Except on the Ducati...it seems that youth and general ignorance are the way forward
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What I want to know is it wasn't this awful before 07/08 so why can't they go back to a trellis framed style bike? Sure I know that its hard to make 2 frames have the same moment characteristics but at least they had bikes that were near the front
What about those front end falls in the second half of 2008 for Stoner? I would say the problem started to rear it's head about then.
 
They should just hire away some aprilia engineers, those guys have been building good race bikes for a long time and they're already beating Ducati customer bikes with a CRT. If they had the hp they would easily be beating the factory Ducs with RDP and AE as riders.
 
They should just hire away some aprilia engineers, those guys have been building good race bikes for a long time and they're already beating Ducati customer bikes with a CRT. If they had the hp they would easily be beating the factory Ducs with RDP and AE as riders.
HP isn't the issue for the ART, HP + durability,'lectricks and chassis are!!
 

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