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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rowles @ Feb 7 2010, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>your trying to compare somebody who has been in the elite class for 9 years to somebody who has been in it for 2 years?! you cant do it!
Lorenzo "statisticlly" is the second best rider out there.
It is possible to statistically compare VR, CS, JL & DP despite the dissimilar number of years experience by using a ratio of wins to starts :
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rowles @ Feb 9 2010, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>because he finished second? like i said cannot argue with facts yet i can bet somebody will try argue that stoner should be in there, but in 2009 lorenzo was second to Rossi, FACT
Lorenzo was statistically the second best rider in the 2009 season. Stoner is the second
best rider currently out there, as can be seen above.
Lorenzo "statisticlly" is the second best rider out there.
It is possible to statistically compare VR, CS, JL & DP despite the dissimilar number of years experience by using a ratio of wins to starts :
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rowles @ Feb 9 2010, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>because he finished second? like i said cannot argue with facts yet i can bet somebody will try argue that stoner should be in there, but in 2009 lorenzo was second to Rossi, FACT
Lorenzo was statistically the second best rider in the 2009 season. Stoner is the second
best rider currently out there, as can be seen above.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 8 2010, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is possible to statistically compare VR, CS, JL & DP despite the dissimilar number of years experience by using a ratio of wins to starts :
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo was statistically the second best rider in the 2009 season. Stoner is the second
best rider currently out there, as can be seen above.
please explain this to barry
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo was statistically the second best rider in the 2009 season. Stoner is the second
best rider currently out there, as can be seen above.
please explain this to barry
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is possible to statistically compare VR, CS, JL & DP despite the dissimilar number of years experience by using a ratio of wins to starts :
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo was statistically the second best rider in the 2009 season. Stoner is the second
best rider currently out there, as can be seen above.
There is no doubt Rossi has had an amazing career and those stats are almost unbelievable.
Considering Rossi, Lorenzo and Pedrosa have had factory bikes for the whole MotoGP Career (990 and 800cc) would it be fair to remove races Stoner did in 2006 on a low spec satelite Honda which would reveal stats something like:
win/start: 42.5%
podium start: 70.21%
From Pedro's stats it is truely suprising he still has that seat and if he fails to win the WC this year it must diminish his negotiating position at the end of this season.
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo was statistically the second best rider in the 2009 season. Stoner is the second
best rider currently out there, as can be seen above.
There is no doubt Rossi has had an amazing career and those stats are almost unbelievable.
Considering Rossi, Lorenzo and Pedrosa have had factory bikes for the whole MotoGP Career (990 and 800cc) would it be fair to remove races Stoner did in 2006 on a low spec satelite Honda which would reveal stats something like:
win/start: 42.5%
podium start: 70.21%
From Pedro's stats it is truely suprising he still has that seat and if he fails to win the WC this year it must diminish his negotiating position at the end of this season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 8 2010, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is possible to statistically compare VR, CS, JL & DP despite the dissimilar number of years experience by using a ratio of wins to starts :
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo was statistically the second best rider in the 2009 season. Stoner is the second
best rider currently out there, as can be seen above.
Sorry mate, it is horrible to nag someone, but you got Pedrosa a bit off. I also would like to point that being there is part of the game, so ‘Not Starting’ should also be considered as much as a DNF. I am also not sure why would you take the 500cc off, those were the rules and competition bikes in that time (and even lower Rossi percentages a bit) so I would also consider them.
Rossi without 500cc: Races 135, Wins 64 = 47.41%, Podiums 105 = 77.78%
Rossi with 500cc: Races 167, Wins 77 = 46.11%, Podiums 128 = 76.65%.
Stoner: Races 70, Wins 20 = 28.57%, Podiums 34 = 48.57%
Lorenzo: Races 35, Wins 5 = 14.29%, Podiums 18 = 51.43%
Pedrosa: Races 70, Wins 8 = 11.43%, Podiums 38 = 54.29%
You can see that both Pedrosa and Lorenzo are more consistent than Stoner too (being the lowest in this) even though he has higher wins ratio.
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo was statistically the second best rider in the 2009 season. Stoner is the second
best rider currently out there, as can be seen above.
Sorry mate, it is horrible to nag someone, but you got Pedrosa a bit off. I also would like to point that being there is part of the game, so ‘Not Starting’ should also be considered as much as a DNF. I am also not sure why would you take the 500cc off, those were the rules and competition bikes in that time (and even lower Rossi percentages a bit) so I would also consider them.
Rossi without 500cc: Races 135, Wins 64 = 47.41%, Podiums 105 = 77.78%
Rossi with 500cc: Races 167, Wins 77 = 46.11%, Podiums 128 = 76.65%.
Stoner: Races 70, Wins 20 = 28.57%, Podiums 34 = 48.57%
Lorenzo: Races 35, Wins 5 = 14.29%, Podiums 18 = 51.43%
Pedrosa: Races 70, Wins 8 = 11.43%, Podiums 38 = 54.29%
You can see that both Pedrosa and Lorenzo are more consistent than Stoner too (being the lowest in this) even though he has higher wins ratio.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Feb 8 2010, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is no doubt Rossi has had an amazing career and those stats are almost unbelievable.
Considering Rossi, Lorenzo and Pedrosa have had factory bikes for the whole MotoGP Career (990 and 800cc) would it be fair to remove races Stoner did in 2006 on a low spec satelite Honda which would reveal stats something like:
win/start: 42.5%
podium start: 70.21%
No, it is not fair, after all Stoner did not win any 250cc World Championship (or WSB) as did the other 3. This gave them more credibility into a Factory Team. I also will always believe, that if even at a Factory Team, Lorenzo complains for not getting same support as Rossi, much the less would a supposed 'Second' Factory Team would as in Nastro Azurro in that time. Elias was supposedly on a Factory Ride last year? Yeah right. Do you think Simocelli's (or Melandri's) bike is equal to Dovisiozo's or a bit higher Pedrosa's?
Considering Rossi, Lorenzo and Pedrosa have had factory bikes for the whole MotoGP Career (990 and 800cc) would it be fair to remove races Stoner did in 2006 on a low spec satelite Honda which would reveal stats something like:
win/start: 42.5%
podium start: 70.21%
No, it is not fair, after all Stoner did not win any 250cc World Championship (or WSB) as did the other 3. This gave them more credibility into a Factory Team. I also will always believe, that if even at a Factory Team, Lorenzo complains for not getting same support as Rossi, much the less would a supposed 'Second' Factory Team would as in Nastro Azurro in that time. Elias was supposedly on a Factory Ride last year? Yeah right. Do you think Simocelli's (or Melandri's) bike is equal to Dovisiozo's or a bit higher Pedrosa's?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Feb 9 2010, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, it is not fair, after all Stoner did not win any 250cc World Championship (or WSB) as did the other 3. This gave them more credibility into a Factory Team. I also will always believe that if even at a Factory Team Lorenzo complains for not getting same support as Rossi, much the less would a supposed 'Second' Factory Team would as in Nastro Azurro in that time. Elias was supposedly on a Factory Ride last year? yeah right. Do you think Simocelli's (or Melandri's) bike is equal to Dovisiozo's or a bit higher Pedrosa's?
V, I wasn't putting the question to you just the people who aren't wildly biased.
Stoner didn't win any 250cc championships because he never had a factroy bike. In 2005 he only just lost out to Pedrosa due to a crash at PI. So you can hardly say he had no results. I also never said anything about whether they earned their ride or not. Sttupid arguement as Stoner is Australian and the other 3 are Spanish and Italian nuff said.
Now you are being very fanciful to compare the difference of Lorenzo's to Rossi's bike last year and Stoners and Pedrosa's in 2006. This just shows the bias the you see with. It also implies that Rossi had a better bike in 2009 and therefore we should question his championship and also his whining.
Do you honestly believe that the Nastro Azurro bike was not full factory?
V, I wasn't putting the question to you just the people who aren't wildly biased.
Stoner didn't win any 250cc championships because he never had a factroy bike. In 2005 he only just lost out to Pedrosa due to a crash at PI. So you can hardly say he had no results. I also never said anything about whether they earned their ride or not. Sttupid arguement as Stoner is Australian and the other 3 are Spanish and Italian nuff said.
Now you are being very fanciful to compare the difference of Lorenzo's to Rossi's bike last year and Stoners and Pedrosa's in 2006. This just shows the bias the you see with. It also implies that Rossi had a better bike in 2009 and therefore we should question his championship and also his whining.
Do you honestly believe that the Nastro Azurro bike was not full factory?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Feb 8 2010, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>V, I wasn't putting the question to you just the people who aren't wildly biased.
Stoner didn't win any 250cc championships because he never had a factroy bike. In 2005 he only just lost out to Pedrosa due to a crash at PI. So you can hardly say he had no results. I also never said anything about whether they earned their ride or not. Sttupid arguement as Stoner is Australian and the other 3 are Spanish and Italian nuff said.
Now you are being very fanciful to compare the difference of Lorenzo's to Rossi's bike last year and Stoners and Pedrosa's in 2006. This just shows the bias the you see with. It also implies that Rossi had a better bike in 2009 and therefore we should question his championship and also his whining.
Do you honestly believe that the Nastro Azurro bike was not full factory?
Bro, I honestly believe Nastro Azurro had Factory support, but as much as Elias or Edwards did last year. Do you think Elias Team had any real input, same as Pedrosa Team, in the development of Honda´s MotoGP Bike? Do you think Honda is going to give Simoncelli (or Melandri) what ever they ask for above Pedrosa? Would Spies have a higher say than Rossi in what goes or not? I believe not Bro.
Stoner didn't win any 250cc championships because he never had a factroy bike. In 2005 he only just lost out to Pedrosa due to a crash at PI. So you can hardly say he had no results. I also never said anything about whether they earned their ride or not. Sttupid arguement as Stoner is Australian and the other 3 are Spanish and Italian nuff said.
Now you are being very fanciful to compare the difference of Lorenzo's to Rossi's bike last year and Stoners and Pedrosa's in 2006. This just shows the bias the you see with. It also implies that Rossi had a better bike in 2009 and therefore we should question his championship and also his whining.
Do you honestly believe that the Nastro Azurro bike was not full factory?
Bro, I honestly believe Nastro Azurro had Factory support, but as much as Elias or Edwards did last year. Do you think Elias Team had any real input, same as Pedrosa Team, in the development of Honda´s MotoGP Bike? Do you think Honda is going to give Simoncelli (or Melandri) what ever they ask for above Pedrosa? Would Spies have a higher say than Rossi in what goes or not? I believe not Bro.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Feb 9 2010, 04:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, it is not fair, after all Stoner did not win any 250cc World Championship (or WSB) as did the other 3. This gave them more credibility into a Factory Team. I also will always believe, that if even at a Factory Team, Lorenzo complains for not getting same support as Rossi, much the less would a supposed 'Second' Factory Team would as in Nastro Azurro in that time. Elias was supposedly on a Factory Ride last year? Yeah right. Do you think Simocelli's (or Melandri's) bike is equal to Dovisiozo's or a bit higher Pedrosa's?
Rossi's statistics are so obviously vastly superior to all current riders (and nearly all past riders) that it is hardly worth discussing it. I don't accept your argument about the nastro azzurro team though, as whether by design or happenstance rossi ended up with mick doohan's pitcrew including jerry burgess, and I would not be surprised to see him repeat the nastro azzurro model in the future at yamaha or elsewhere.
Lorenzo was the second best rider last year and it is stoner's problem not lorenzo's if stoner had health problems whether genuine or otherwise. However in overall terms I think casey's 20 premier class wins and one premier class world championship trump lorenzo's and pedrosa's previous lower division championships and premier class achievements thus far. For what it is worth (imo not much) stoner beat lorenzo in the 250s when all 3 competed at the same time. All three riders under discussion were teenagers at the time in any case, and I think the level you peak at is more important than how you get there. I have used this analogy before, but leyton hewitt had a 7:2 advantage over roger federer at one stage early in their careers, but a 0:15 record since then; I dont think anyone would argue that federer can't be better than hewitt because he didn't beat him when he was a teenager. Perhaps he has a better tennis racquet than hewitt now.
I of course concede the possibility that pedrosa and particularly lorenzo may surpass stoner by their premier class achievements in the future.
Rossi's statistics are so obviously vastly superior to all current riders (and nearly all past riders) that it is hardly worth discussing it. I don't accept your argument about the nastro azzurro team though, as whether by design or happenstance rossi ended up with mick doohan's pitcrew including jerry burgess, and I would not be surprised to see him repeat the nastro azzurro model in the future at yamaha or elsewhere.
Lorenzo was the second best rider last year and it is stoner's problem not lorenzo's if stoner had health problems whether genuine or otherwise. However in overall terms I think casey's 20 premier class wins and one premier class world championship trump lorenzo's and pedrosa's previous lower division championships and premier class achievements thus far. For what it is worth (imo not much) stoner beat lorenzo in the 250s when all 3 competed at the same time. All three riders under discussion were teenagers at the time in any case, and I think the level you peak at is more important than how you get there. I have used this analogy before, but leyton hewitt had a 7:2 advantage over roger federer at one stage early in their careers, but a 0:15 record since then; I dont think anyone would argue that federer can't be better than hewitt because he didn't beat him when he was a teenager. Perhaps he has a better tennis racquet than hewitt now.
I of course concede the possibility that pedrosa and particularly lorenzo may surpass stoner by their premier class achievements in the future.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 8 2010, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi's statistics are so obviously superior vastly superior to all current riders (and nearly all past riders) that it is hardly worth discussing it. I don't accept your argument about the nastro azzurro team though, as whether by design or happenstance rossi ended up with mick doohan's pitcrew including jerry burgess, and i would not be surprised to see him repeat the nastro azzurro model in the future at yamaha or elsewhere.
Lorenzo was the second best rider last year and it is stoner's problem not lorenzo's if stoner had health problems whether genuine or otherwise. However in overall terms I think casey's 20 premier class wins and one premier class world championship trump lorenzo's and pedrosa's previous lower division championships and premier class achievements thus far. For what it is worth (imo not much) stoner beat lorenzo in the 250s when all 3 competed at the same time. All three riders under discussion were teenagers at the time in any case, and I think the level you peak at is more important than how you get there. I have used this analogy before, but leyton hewitt had a 7:2 advantage over roger federer at one stage early in their careers, but a 0:15 record since then; I dont think anyone would argue that federer can't be better than hewitt because he didn't beat him when he was a teenager. Perhaps he has a better tennis racquet than hewitt now.
I of course concede the possibility that pedrosa and particularly lorenzo may surpass stoner by their premier class achievements in the future.
I also believe ‘wins’ and ‘win ratio’ to account a lot more than ‘consistency’ mate, it is racing, about trying to win and Stoner is there. But we cannot argue that consistency is part of the game too (the least exiting part of racing other than politics of course!). That consistency gives just a bit of insight and hope at Pedrosa for example, and I don’t like him much really. Lorenzo is a bit tougher to decipher, in any statistical survey, the bigger the sample the better and more reliable the results, so Lorenzo being the one that has participated the less, is the least reliable source. As an example of not being there, Bayliss ran once in 2006, should we considere his win and podiums ratios 100% for that year? Not even Rossi’s. And what to say about Rossi, holly crap, even considering his first year, being a ‘bad’ one at Top Class (500cc Era), which lowers his percentages a bit, holly crap again.
Lorenzo was the second best rider last year and it is stoner's problem not lorenzo's if stoner had health problems whether genuine or otherwise. However in overall terms I think casey's 20 premier class wins and one premier class world championship trump lorenzo's and pedrosa's previous lower division championships and premier class achievements thus far. For what it is worth (imo not much) stoner beat lorenzo in the 250s when all 3 competed at the same time. All three riders under discussion were teenagers at the time in any case, and I think the level you peak at is more important than how you get there. I have used this analogy before, but leyton hewitt had a 7:2 advantage over roger federer at one stage early in their careers, but a 0:15 record since then; I dont think anyone would argue that federer can't be better than hewitt because he didn't beat him when he was a teenager. Perhaps he has a better tennis racquet than hewitt now.
I of course concede the possibility that pedrosa and particularly lorenzo may surpass stoner by their premier class achievements in the future.
I also believe ‘wins’ and ‘win ratio’ to account a lot more than ‘consistency’ mate, it is racing, about trying to win and Stoner is there. But we cannot argue that consistency is part of the game too (the least exiting part of racing other than politics of course!). That consistency gives just a bit of insight and hope at Pedrosa for example, and I don’t like him much really. Lorenzo is a bit tougher to decipher, in any statistical survey, the bigger the sample the better and more reliable the results, so Lorenzo being the one that has participated the less, is the least reliable source. As an example of not being there, Bayliss ran once in 2006, should we considere his win and podiums ratios 100% for that year? Not even Rossi’s. And what to say about Rossi, holly crap, even considering his first year, being a ‘bad’ one at Top Class (500cc Era), which lowers his percentages a bit, holly crap again.
I'm not sure, but if TP is going to add statistical percentages to CS because of a Satellite ride, then didn't Jorge not always enjoy Full Factory support? I'm sure in 05 he was on a Satellite bike.
During his JL's titles sure, but the Aprilia CS had in 250cc was certainly as good as it gets, especially in 2005.
Funny thing Dani's record, so dominant over Stoner in 250cc back then.....he was even stronger on the 990 in 2006 than the 800, the RC212V certainly was/is a F-up.
During his JL's titles sure, but the Aprilia CS had in 250cc was certainly as good as it gets, especially in 2005.
Funny thing Dani's record, so dominant over Stoner in 250cc back then.....he was even stronger on the 990 in 2006 than the 800, the RC212V certainly was/is a F-up.
I would like to see what Rossi's 34 starts compares to Lorenzo's. His 65 Starts compared to Stone/Pedrosa.
Rossi is best.
What is separating him from the others right now is : mental toughness, lack of injuries, very well sorted out bike and excellent crew.
All of the tangibles and intangibles together push him over Biaggi's, Stoner and Lorenzo.
I am enjoying his reign it will be short.
Again: He will not win the title this year.
Rossi is best.
What is separating him from the others right now is : mental toughness, lack of injuries, very well sorted out bike and excellent crew.
All of the tangibles and intangibles together push him over Biaggi's, Stoner and Lorenzo.
I am enjoying his reign it will be short.
Again: He will not win the title this year.
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
i not read all these lately so dont know if this been posted.
but Lorenzo got the Dummy bug now
Lorenzo: I don’t know why Yamaha made this choice
Fiat Yamaha data swapping cull gets mixed reception
Posted: 9 February 2010
by Visordown News
IT MAY WELL have been all smiles and handshakes between Rossi and Lorenzo at the official unveiling of the 2010 Fiat Yamaha MotoGP team, but the rivalry between the riders appears to be as strong as ever.
The team has confirmed the pair will not be sharing data for the 2010 season; a decision that's prompted opposing responses from the MotoGP duo.
Rossi is happy about the decision to work with his own team, excluding Lorenzo from any valuable data found in testing, practice, qualifying or during a race. However, Lorenzo isn't so keen on the idea of working on his own, believing the split will hamper the development of the company's already highly succesfu lM1 racebike:
“I have great respect for Valentino. He has an incredible talent and is an intelligent person," said the Spaniard.
"Last year I was close to beating him and with a step forward I can have the chance to succeed. I do not care what he says, I’m not interested in copying his bike’s settings to win. In 2009, we compared data and there were races where we did well, in others both Valentino and I did worse. I don’t know why Yamaha made this choice, I believe that this will slow down development on the bike. However I’m not worried, I’m self sufficient.”
Rossi, on the other hand, seems far less agitated by the team's decision:
“Speaking with Yamaha I think Jorge, especially last year and already in 2008, demonstrated great speed and a good attitude to fix and set the bike,” said Rossi. “Now he has been in the team for two years, so everyone agrees that it’s possible for everyone to make their own way. Also, Jorge wants to work more on the development, so I think it’s right that everyone does his job alone. But at the end it doesn’t change a lot because all the comments between me and Jorge are quite similar, so it’s not a big change.”
Only time will tell, but we think Rossi will still have the upperhand come race day. Title number 10, anyone?
but Lorenzo got the Dummy bug now
Lorenzo: I don’t know why Yamaha made this choice
Fiat Yamaha data swapping cull gets mixed reception
Posted: 9 February 2010
by Visordown News
IT MAY WELL have been all smiles and handshakes between Rossi and Lorenzo at the official unveiling of the 2010 Fiat Yamaha MotoGP team, but the rivalry between the riders appears to be as strong as ever.
The team has confirmed the pair will not be sharing data for the 2010 season; a decision that's prompted opposing responses from the MotoGP duo.
Rossi is happy about the decision to work with his own team, excluding Lorenzo from any valuable data found in testing, practice, qualifying or during a race. However, Lorenzo isn't so keen on the idea of working on his own, believing the split will hamper the development of the company's already highly succesfu lM1 racebike:
“I have great respect for Valentino. He has an incredible talent and is an intelligent person," said the Spaniard.
"Last year I was close to beating him and with a step forward I can have the chance to succeed. I do not care what he says, I’m not interested in copying his bike’s settings to win. In 2009, we compared data and there were races where we did well, in others both Valentino and I did worse. I don’t know why Yamaha made this choice, I believe that this will slow down development on the bike. However I’m not worried, I’m self sufficient.”
Rossi, on the other hand, seems far less agitated by the team's decision:
“Speaking with Yamaha I think Jorge, especially last year and already in 2008, demonstrated great speed and a good attitude to fix and set the bike,” said Rossi. “Now he has been in the team for two years, so everyone agrees that it’s possible for everyone to make their own way. Also, Jorge wants to work more on the development, so I think it’s right that everyone does his job alone. But at the end it doesn’t change a lot because all the comments between me and Jorge are quite similar, so it’s not a big change.”
Only time will tell, but we think Rossi will still have the upperhand come race day. Title number 10, anyone?
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Feb 9 2010, 04:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 02:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Sorry mate, it is horrible to nag someone, but you got Pedrosa a bit off. I also would like to point that being there is part of the game, so ‘Not Starting’ should also be considered as much as a DNF. I am also not sure why would you take the 500cc off, those were the rules and competition bikes in that time (and even lower Rossi percentages a bit) so I would also consider them.
Rossi without 500cc: Races 135, Wins 64 = 47.41%, Podiums 105 = 77.78%
Rossi with 500cc: Races 167, Wins 77 = 46.11%, Podiums 128 = 76.65%.
Stoner: Races 70, Wins 20 = 28.57%, Podiums 34 = 48.57%
Lorenzo: Races 35, Wins 5 = 14.29%, Podiums 18 = 51.43%
Pedrosa: Races 70, Wins 8 = 11.43%, Podiums 38 = 54.29%
You can see that both Pedrosa and Lorenzo are more consistent than Stoner too (being the lowest in this) even though he has higher wins ratio.
I considered whether to include Rossi's 500 races and decided not to as it was a much more difficult formula to enter from 250's and get right from race 1, IMO. However, even with these races added, it makes not that much difference to his stats.
Regarding number of starts, there were 17 races in 2006, 18 in 2007, 18 in 2008 and 17 in 2009. However, as you pointed out, for the stat starts/wins to mean anything, first you had to have started.
The following is why you don't need to apologise for nagging to me. It would appear that I was a little slapdash in places.
Stoner missed 1 race in 2006 and 4 (incl Valencia) in 2009, hence 65 starts - I got this one right.
Lorenzo missed 1 race in 2008, hence 34 starts - I got this one right.
Pedrosa missed 1 race in 2008, hence 69 starts - I f.ucked this up by forgetting how clever I'd been for CS & JL, working on the fact both DP & CS had done 4 seasons and then copying and pasting! Not quite sure how I managed to lose 1 win and 4 podiums for DP - the latter could be by forgetting to add 2006 in, but the former I have no excuses for. The 0.77% wins/starts should have obviously read 10.77
Maybe I should have quit before I added DP - he was a bit of an afterthought
So, the final corrected results should be :
Rossi all 167 starts, 77 wins, 128 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 46.11%, ratio podiums/starts: 76.66%
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 69 starts, 8 wins, 38 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 11.56%, ratio podiums/starts: 55.07%
Anyway, that pretty much resolves Stoner's consistency for podiums against JL & DP. I agree that he has a higher wins ratio, but also a higher number of races he didn't start. Proof that a high value is not always desirable
In MotoGP (excluding Rossi's time on 500s)
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 65 starts, 7 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 0.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Sorry mate, it is horrible to nag someone, but you got Pedrosa a bit off. I also would like to point that being there is part of the game, so ‘Not Starting’ should also be considered as much as a DNF. I am also not sure why would you take the 500cc off, those were the rules and competition bikes in that time (and even lower Rossi percentages a bit) so I would also consider them.
Rossi without 500cc: Races 135, Wins 64 = 47.41%, Podiums 105 = 77.78%
Rossi with 500cc: Races 167, Wins 77 = 46.11%, Podiums 128 = 76.65%.
Stoner: Races 70, Wins 20 = 28.57%, Podiums 34 = 48.57%
Lorenzo: Races 35, Wins 5 = 14.29%, Podiums 18 = 51.43%
Pedrosa: Races 70, Wins 8 = 11.43%, Podiums 38 = 54.29%
You can see that both Pedrosa and Lorenzo are more consistent than Stoner too (being the lowest in this) even though he has higher wins ratio.
I considered whether to include Rossi's 500 races and decided not to as it was a much more difficult formula to enter from 250's and get right from race 1, IMO. However, even with these races added, it makes not that much difference to his stats.
Regarding number of starts, there were 17 races in 2006, 18 in 2007, 18 in 2008 and 17 in 2009. However, as you pointed out, for the stat starts/wins to mean anything, first you had to have started.
The following is why you don't need to apologise for nagging to me. It would appear that I was a little slapdash in places.
Stoner missed 1 race in 2006 and 4 (incl Valencia) in 2009, hence 65 starts - I got this one right.
Lorenzo missed 1 race in 2008, hence 34 starts - I got this one right.
Pedrosa missed 1 race in 2008, hence 69 starts - I f.ucked this up by forgetting how clever I'd been for CS & JL, working on the fact both DP & CS had done 4 seasons and then copying and pasting! Not quite sure how I managed to lose 1 win and 4 podiums for DP - the latter could be by forgetting to add 2006 in, but the former I have no excuses for. The 0.77% wins/starts should have obviously read 10.77
So, the final corrected results should be :
Rossi all 167 starts, 77 wins, 128 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 46.11%, ratio podiums/starts: 76.66%
Rossi 135 starts, 64 wins, 105 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 47.47%, ratio podiums/starts: 77.78%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Pedrosa 69 starts, 8 wins, 38 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 11.56%, ratio podiums/starts: 55.07%
Anyway, that pretty much resolves Stoner's consistency for podiums against JL & DP. I agree that he has a higher wins ratio, but also a higher number of races he didn't start. Proof that a high value is not always desirable
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Feb 9 2010, 04:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is no doubt Rossi has had an amazing career and those stats are almost unbelievable.
Considering Rossi, Lorenzo and Pedrosa have had factory bikes for the whole MotoGP Career (990 and 800cc) would it be fair to remove races Stoner did in 2006 on a low spec satelite Honda
I also considered doing this, but decided that it had more to do with his tyres than the bike, and that you could also argue that the 2007 Duke was the class of the field and so Pedrosa would have been penalised by including his 2007 stats
.
At the end of the day, statistics will only tell part of the story for any of these guys. That's why we watch the races and mull endlessly over un-answerable questions such as who is the greatest rider ever.
Considering Rossi, Lorenzo and Pedrosa have had factory bikes for the whole MotoGP Career (990 and 800cc) would it be fair to remove races Stoner did in 2006 on a low spec satelite Honda
I also considered doing this, but decided that it had more to do with his tyres than the bike, and that you could also argue that the 2007 Duke was the class of the field and so Pedrosa would have been penalised by including his 2007 stats
At the end of the day, statistics will only tell part of the story for any of these guys. That's why we watch the races and mull endlessly over un-answerable questions such as who is the greatest rider ever.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Duc999 @ Feb 9 2010, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would like to see what Rossi's 34 starts compares to Lorenzo's. His 65 Starts compared to Stone/Pedrosa.
I thougt of doing this at the time, but decided it would have over complicated an already long post.
Comparing Rossi 2000-2001 to JL 2008-2009:
Rossi 32 starts, 13 wins, 23 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 40.63%, ratio podiums/starts: 71.88%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Comparing Rossi 2000-2003 to CS/DP 2006-2009:
Rossi 64 starts, 31 wins, 54 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 48.43%, ratio podiums/starts: 84.38%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Pedrosa 69 starts, 8 wins, 38 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 11.56%, ratio podiums/starts: 55.07%
It would appear that michaelm covered it nicely
: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Rossi's statistics are so obviously vastly superior to all current riders (and nearly all past riders) that it is hardly worth discussing it.
I thougt of doing this at the time, but decided it would have over complicated an already long post.
Comparing Rossi 2000-2001 to JL 2008-2009:
Rossi 32 starts, 13 wins, 23 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 40.63%, ratio podiums/starts: 71.88%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Comparing Rossi 2000-2003 to CS/DP 2006-2009:
Rossi 64 starts, 31 wins, 54 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 48.43%, ratio podiums/starts: 84.38%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Pedrosa 69 starts, 8 wins, 38 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 11.56%, ratio podiums/starts: 55.07%
It would appear that michaelm covered it nicely
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 06:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anyway, that pretty much resolves Stoner's consistency for podiums against JL & DP. I agree that he has a higher wins ratio, but also a higher number of races he didn't start. Proof that a high value is not always desirable
But taking 'Non Starts' away resolves in favor of Stoner because he has more 'No Starts' that do not make points. This is like taking away the the races that he (or Pedrosa) took off and wan... simply because of...??? To win first you have to be there, then you have to finish, and then you could perhaps win!
So no brother, statisticaly we should not take the 'Non Starts' away!
In order of appearances and then wins:
Rossi: Races 167, no doubt by a margin.
Stoner: Races 70, ends with most wins by a margin yet worst consistency.
Pedrosa: Races 70, ends with least wins yet better consistency.
Lorenzo: Races 35, evens up a bit and has least reliable sample data.
Note: Rossi in 2000 & 2001 does not seem to need much help at 500cc, even them being the "toughtes beasts created by mankind"!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I also considered doing this, but decided that it had more to do with his tyres than the bike, and that you could also argue that the 2007 Duke was the class of the field and so Pedrosa would have been penalised by including his 2007 stats .
That must be why 'personal' considerations should not be applied prior to statistics, just the roar data, the most the best. Simple and after what ever comes out, everyone can make their minds and opinions, then perhaps personal consideration should matter.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At the end of the day, statistics will only tell part of the story for any of these guys. That's why we watch the races and mull endlessly over un-answerable questions such as who is the greatest rider ever.
Well, statistics only tell part of the Story, yet the more the better to end up kind of putting things in place, wouldn't you prefer to bet with lots of statistics to backup any decision?
http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/.../VAL/table4.pdf
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%And yes, racing is about risk, risk is about chaging odds, without this would be boring as hell! (Duhrna are you listening?).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 07:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thougt of doing this at the time, but decided it would have over complicated an already long post.
Comparing Rossi 2000-2001 to JL 2008-2009:
Rossi 32 starts, 13 wins, 23 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 40.63%, ratio podiums/starts: 71.88%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Comparing Rossi 2000-2003 to CS/DP 2006-2009:
Rossi 64 starts, 31 wins, 54 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 48.43%, ratio podiums/starts: 84.38%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Pedrosa 69 starts, 8 wins, 38 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 11.56%, ratio podiums/starts: 55.07%
It would appear that michaelm covered it nicely :
Sorry mate, I know you said not to worry, but here I go again:
Rider first 2 years, Races, Wins, Podiums, W/R, P/R
Rossi 2000 & 2001, 32, 13, 23, 40.63%, 71.88%
Lorenzo 2008 & 2009, 35, 5, 18, 14.29%, 51.43%
Rider 4 years, Races, Wins, Podiums, W/R, P/R
Rossi 2000 - 2003, 64, 33, 54, 51.56%, 84.38%
Stoner 2006 - 2009, 70, 20, 34, 28.57%, 48.57%
Pedrosa 2006 - 2009, 70, 8, 38, 11.43%, 54.29%
Note: Rossi's got 33 wins during 2006 – 2009.
Hope it is all cool hermano
But taking 'Non Starts' away resolves in favor of Stoner because he has more 'No Starts' that do not make points. This is like taking away the the races that he (or Pedrosa) took off and wan... simply because of...??? To win first you have to be there, then you have to finish, and then you could perhaps win!
So no brother, statisticaly we should not take the 'Non Starts' away!
In order of appearances and then wins:
Rossi: Races 167, no doubt by a margin.
Stoner: Races 70, ends with most wins by a margin yet worst consistency.
Pedrosa: Races 70, ends with least wins yet better consistency.
Lorenzo: Races 35, evens up a bit and has least reliable sample data.
Note: Rossi in 2000 & 2001 does not seem to need much help at 500cc, even them being the "toughtes beasts created by mankind"!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I also considered doing this, but decided that it had more to do with his tyres than the bike, and that you could also argue that the 2007 Duke was the class of the field and so Pedrosa would have been penalised by including his 2007 stats .
That must be why 'personal' considerations should not be applied prior to statistics, just the roar data, the most the best. Simple and after what ever comes out, everyone can make their minds and opinions, then perhaps personal consideration should matter.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At the end of the day, statistics will only tell part of the story for any of these guys. That's why we watch the races and mull endlessly over un-answerable questions such as who is the greatest rider ever.
Well, statistics only tell part of the Story, yet the more the better to end up kind of putting things in place, wouldn't you prefer to bet with lots of statistics to backup any decision?
http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/.../VAL/table4.pdf
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%And yes, racing is about risk, risk is about chaging odds, without this would be boring as hell! (Duhrna are you listening?).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 07:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thougt of doing this at the time, but decided it would have over complicated an already long post.
Comparing Rossi 2000-2001 to JL 2008-2009:
Rossi 32 starts, 13 wins, 23 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 40.63%, ratio podiums/starts: 71.88%
Lorenzo 34 starts, 5 wins, 18 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 14.71%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.94%
Comparing Rossi 2000-2003 to CS/DP 2006-2009:
Rossi 64 starts, 31 wins, 54 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 48.43%, ratio podiums/starts: 84.38%
Stoner 65 starts, 20 wins, 34 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 30.77%, ratio podiums/starts: 52.31%
Pedrosa 69 starts, 8 wins, 38 podiums. ratio wins/starts: 11.56%, ratio podiums/starts: 55.07%
It would appear that michaelm covered it nicely :
Sorry mate, I know you said not to worry, but here I go again:
Rider first 2 years, Races, Wins, Podiums, W/R, P/R
Rossi 2000 & 2001, 32, 13, 23, 40.63%, 71.88%
Lorenzo 2008 & 2009, 35, 5, 18, 14.29%, 51.43%
Rider 4 years, Races, Wins, Podiums, W/R, P/R
Rossi 2000 - 2003, 64, 33, 54, 51.56%, 84.38%
Stoner 2006 - 2009, 70, 20, 34, 28.57%, 48.57%
Pedrosa 2006 - 2009, 70, 8, 38, 11.43%, 54.29%
Note: Rossi's got 33 wins during 2006 – 2009.
Hope it is all cool hermano
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Feb 9 2010, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But taking 'Non Starts' away resolves in favor of Stoner because he has more 'No Starts' that do not make points. This is like taking away the the races that he (or Pedrosa) took off and wan... simply because of...??? To win first you have to be there, then you have to finish, and then you could perhaps win!
Sorry mate, I know you said not to worry, but here I go again:
Rider first 2 years, Races, Wins, Podiums, W/R, P/R
Rossi 2000 & 2001, 32, 13, 23, 40.63%, 71.88%
Lorenzo 2008 & 2009, 35, 5, 18, 14.29%, 51.43%
Rider 4 years, Races, Wins, Podiums, W/R, P/R
Rossi 2000 - 2003, 64, 33, 54, 51.56%, 84.38%
Stoner 2006 - 2009, 70, 20, 34, 28.57%, 48.57%
Pedrosa 2006 - 2009, 70, 8, 38, 11.43%, 54.29%
Note: Rossi's got 33 wins during 2006 – 2009.
Hope it is all cool hermano
Duh! 2, 11, 11, 9 not 2, 11, 9, 9! Proves I'm not a Rossi Bopper I guess as the error would surely have flattered the Yellow One had that been the case.
Easy done though as your "2006 - 2009" when you meant "2000-2003" shows! Cut and paste for you too?
Regarding the starts/non-starts, it's a matter of opinion I guess. Not sure that you can infer lack of consistency from missing races due to injury or illness though. I'd call it luck. One rider can highside and be fine, another can be knocked into the middle of next week and lose confidence, but break no bones (Lorenzo) another can keep damaging the same bits (Pedrosa, Hopkins).
BTW, I am only an honourary Aussie (got citizenship in 2005) so I don't bet, regardless of the level of detail in the stats.
In 2008 though I wish I had put some cash on what my heart (regardless of the stats and odds) felt would be the winners of F1, MotoGP, WSBK and BSB (Hamilton, Rossi, Bayliss & Byrne) at the start of the season. I'd love to know what odds I'd have got on all four
Sorry mate, I know you said not to worry, but here I go again:
Rider first 2 years, Races, Wins, Podiums, W/R, P/R
Rossi 2000 & 2001, 32, 13, 23, 40.63%, 71.88%
Lorenzo 2008 & 2009, 35, 5, 18, 14.29%, 51.43%
Rider 4 years, Races, Wins, Podiums, W/R, P/R
Rossi 2000 - 2003, 64, 33, 54, 51.56%, 84.38%
Stoner 2006 - 2009, 70, 20, 34, 28.57%, 48.57%
Pedrosa 2006 - 2009, 70, 8, 38, 11.43%, 54.29%
Note: Rossi's got 33 wins during 2006 – 2009.
Hope it is all cool hermano
Duh! 2, 11, 11, 9 not 2, 11, 9, 9! Proves I'm not a Rossi Bopper I guess as the error would surely have flattered the Yellow One had that been the case.
Easy done though as your "2006 - 2009" when you meant "2000-2003" shows! Cut and paste for you too?
Regarding the starts/non-starts, it's a matter of opinion I guess. Not sure that you can infer lack of consistency from missing races due to injury or illness though. I'd call it luck. One rider can highside and be fine, another can be knocked into the middle of next week and lose confidence, but break no bones (Lorenzo) another can keep damaging the same bits (Pedrosa, Hopkins).
BTW, I am only an honourary Aussie (got citizenship in 2005) so I don't bet, regardless of the level of detail in the stats.
In 2008 though I wish I had put some cash on what my heart (regardless of the stats and odds) felt would be the winners of F1, MotoGP, WSBK and BSB (Hamilton, Rossi, Bayliss & Byrne) at the start of the season. I'd love to know what odds I'd have got on all four
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 9 2010, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Easy done though as your "2006 - 2009" when you meant "2000-2003" shows! Cut and paste for you too?
All cool bro!
Once I came up with all these Stats and numbers, you can imagine me being proudly supported by facts on a discusion, turns out I mixed Roberts Senior and Junior by not identifying the last name separatly. Duh for myself obviously!
Once I came up with all these Stats and numbers, you can imagine me being proudly supported by facts on a discusion, turns out I mixed Roberts Senior and Junior by not identifying the last name separatly. Duh for myself obviously!
These 2 are not only in a race for their higher place in their team, but they are also in a psychologic war already (even if they dont admit to it).
Rossi knows that Lorenzo, unlike his last team mates has the potential to fight and possibly beat him to a championship, and therefor he doesn't like to share his data's, or another things that can give an advantage to Jorge.
from what i,v heard from both of them, imo all of this shows that Rossi is the one who has more stress and less advantage in this situation, and Jorge has/had less problems, and more
advantages. and it's natural, since Vale has a bigger reputation to lose, than Jorge who has nothing to lose and plenty to win, with a chance to beat the G.O.A.T in the same team and on the same bike.
But now Rossi doesn't lose anything, while Lorenzo has to prove that he is capable of setting up a bike for himself.
I think Vale was already thinking to do something like this for a while, and as soon as Lorenzo said he was interested in developing his bike, Rossi found a good time to ask that from
Yamaha boss, and of cource I give him every right to do so (if indeed VR has asked for this and not Yamaha boss for other reasons).
But what it remains to be seen is if this can keep Lorenzo off from beating him, and how the situation will evolve now, and later.
Or how long will it take before Jorge learns and finds the best setup for his bike.
I think it was better for Lorenzo that it happend now and not at the begin of the racing season.
I cant be sure if this alone will be enough to control and keep Lorenzo off for a long time,
without Vale finding and bringing his A game (like 2008) with him from the start of the season.
and with the rull change (6 bikes for the whole year), anything can happen. but apart from
these things it SEEMS that Lorenzo CAN have more bad weekends this year, if indeed he cant find a good setup on time. But if he can find a good setup then i think he will have a psychologic win over Rossi.
and again this + what Stoner said (i will be more aggressive this year), promiss us of a hot motogp championship.
we are dying for a race, Bring it on please.
Rossi knows that Lorenzo, unlike his last team mates has the potential to fight and possibly beat him to a championship, and therefor he doesn't like to share his data's, or another things that can give an advantage to Jorge.
from what i,v heard from both of them, imo all of this shows that Rossi is the one who has more stress and less advantage in this situation, and Jorge has/had less problems, and more
advantages. and it's natural, since Vale has a bigger reputation to lose, than Jorge who has nothing to lose and plenty to win, with a chance to beat the G.O.A.T in the same team and on the same bike.
But now Rossi doesn't lose anything, while Lorenzo has to prove that he is capable of setting up a bike for himself.
I think Vale was already thinking to do something like this for a while, and as soon as Lorenzo said he was interested in developing his bike, Rossi found a good time to ask that from
Yamaha boss, and of cource I give him every right to do so (if indeed VR has asked for this and not Yamaha boss for other reasons).
But what it remains to be seen is if this can keep Lorenzo off from beating him, and how the situation will evolve now, and later.
Or how long will it take before Jorge learns and finds the best setup for his bike.
I think it was better for Lorenzo that it happend now and not at the begin of the racing season.
I cant be sure if this alone will be enough to control and keep Lorenzo off for a long time,
without Vale finding and bringing his A game (like 2008) with him from the start of the season.
and with the rull change (6 bikes for the whole year), anything can happen. but apart from
these things it SEEMS that Lorenzo CAN have more bad weekends this year, if indeed he cant find a good setup on time. But if he can find a good setup then i think he will have a psychologic win over Rossi.
and again this + what Stoner said (i will be more aggressive this year), promiss us of a hot motogp championship.
we are dying for a race, Bring it on please.
