Repsol Honda Not Attending The Aragon Test

Jumkie said:

I disagree with your entire post my good old chap. The members you are talking about called it a tire conspiracy to screw Honda. Ridicule deserved. Honda have occupied most of the podium positions, fact. They have two factory entries who have not yet been off the podium at some point, fact. Their top rider has cited personal arm pump as part of the problem in his performance, their token Spanish midget has had no such problems with his small short arms.



That one tire choice is for everybody, so they must ALL adapt. If anybody has a significant advantage in this regard, it IS factory Honda. So everybody else has a decided disadvantage when it comes to single tire rules.



Pedro/Stoner are on a slightly superior bike to Lorenzo despite their issues. Some have claimed here that Yamaha is now better than Honda, but the podium positions have been overwhelming Honda real estate. The last race Lorenzo simply made a better tire choice than both Honda riders, how is this Bstones' fault? Come on brotha.

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haha i agree with your post, don't know what we're arguing about here



i had a good laugh at the tyre conspiracy at the time, all i was saying is that in the end ironically honda really are at a bad position because of the stupid 1 tyre rule and don't seem to be able to fix it soon.



the only thing it seems we have to agree to disagree on is the honda vs yam situation.

my argument :if spies had performed like he should we would be talking about how awesome the yamaha is.



i know you think pedro is a .... rider (and please don't deny that ) but hes been able to keep up with stoner who i think every sane spectator would agree is the benchmark these days.what i'm trying to say : the honda for sure is a great bike and not far behind the yamaha,maybe just a little bit as of now.but that the podiums have been honda real estate is their riders "fault".honda have the best line up of riders ,at least as long as spies is not performing

Once again this situation confirms my theories on Bridgestone as a tyre manufacturer. They do not have a 'feel' for this sport. Without the tyre supply reg of 2007, they would have been flogged again by Michelin and the SNS supply strategy. In fact Bridgestone only really had any impact in 2006, and even then you could say it was moreso due to Rossi's/Yamaha's F ups.



The problem is, this is the biggest problem in the sport, has been since the inception of the reg in 2009, its only now we are really starting to see the effects of it-unfortunately the sole tyre supplier reg is not only the worst reg for Motogp-but they also chose-through default-the worst tyre manufacturer.



Last season Honda clearly had an advantage with both the front and rear, Yamaha struggled to get the rear hooked up against the Honda, and Ducati were well behind the eight-ball with Rubber that was essentially built around a completely different design philosophy-the rider change also didn't help things-however even with Stoner last season Ducati's results would have been woeful.



Honda is now whinging, well they are getting a taste of what the others put up with last year-suck it up or use your influence to bring back Michelin. I have no sympathy for HRC, but still maintain that manufacturers having to rebuild a bike around tyres is utterly ridiculous.



Bridgestone are saving money-of course they are going to save money-their brand is always on the winning bike! Last year the tyres were down right dangerous for most teams-Honda managed to make them work better than most.....even this is debatable when you look at crashes like Stoner's in FP at the Sachsenring, or very sadly Sic........



I have no doubt that Michelin could bring back their old tech and be whipping BS again in no time, as long as the supply reg didn't come back also!

Talpa said:

Once again this situation confirms my theories on Bridgestone as a tyre manufacturer. They do not have a 'feel' for this sport. Without the tyre supply reg of 2007, they would have been flogged again by Michelin and the SNS supply strategy. In fact Bridgestone only really had any impact in 2006, and even then you could say it was moreso due to Rossi's/Yamaha's F ups.



The problem is, this is the biggest problem in the sport, has been since the inception of the reg in 2009, its only now we are really starting to see the effects of it-unfortunately the sole tyre supplier reg is not only the worst reg for Motogp-but they also chose-through default-the worst tyre manufacturer.



Last season Honda clearly had an advantage with both the front and rear, Yamaha struggled to get the rear hooked up against the Honda, and Ducati were well behind the eight-ball with Rubber that was essentially built around a completely different design philosophy-the rider change also didn't help things-however even with Stoner last season Ducati's results would have been woeful.



Honda is now whinging, well they are getting a taste of what the others put up with last year-suck it up or use your influence to bring back Michelin. I have no sympathy for HRC, but still maintain that manufacturers having to rebuild a bike around tyres is utterly ridiculous.



Bridgestone are saving money-of course they are going to save money-their brand is always on the winning bike! Last year the tyres were down right dangerous for most teams-Honda managed to make them work better than most.....even this is debatable when you look at crashes like Stoner's in FP at the Sachsenring, or very sadly Sic........



I have no doubt that Michelin could bring back their old tech and be whipping BS again in no time, as long as the supply reg didn't come back also!

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How many chassis did Honda go through last year, I'll give you a hint it was more than Ducati. If you read the post race interviews you'll see that several riders had tire problems and these bikes are constantly evolving around the tires. I personally feel that to big an issue is made of this, Yamaha is also having problems but they aren't bitching about it. What seems unfair to me is when a factory gets to use a patented technology on their bike. Could you imagine if Del West refused to make pneumatic for one of the big factories. What has surprised me the most about this is that Pedders is doing the moaning and not CS, but maybe that's because he also doesn't think there should be any parity in motogp which I think is ........, so when things don't go your way you can't really ..... this is GP run what you brung.

hawkdriver said:

How many chassis did Honda go through last year, I'll give you a hint it was more than Ducati. If you read the post race interviews you'll see that several riders had tire problems and these bikes are constantly evolving around the tires. I personally feel that to big an issue is made of this, Yamaha is also having problems but they aren't bitching about it. What seems unfair to me is when a factory gets to use a patented technology on their bike. Could you imagine if Del West refused to make pneumatic for one of the big factories. What has surprised me the most about this is that Pedders is doing the moaning and not CS, but maybe that's because he also doesn't think there should be any parity in motogp which I think is ........, so when things don't go your way you can't really ..... this is GP run what you brung.

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At least 10 chassis's I believe, yes the bikes are constantly evolving around the tyres-in an age where they are crying poor and entrant numbers are down-so much for cost saving. All needs to be constantly evolving and the tyres are something far more easily produced than say a chassis, Michelin certainly demonstrated this for years. As for run what you brung, well I'm happy to see this at club level and trackdays, but this is the premier class of racing in the world.......we expect that, as rubber is one of 'the' factors in the game......that it deserves more attention, and if they must persist with the sole tyre rule (which they most certainly should not) then at least get a better supplier, F1 did it, and for the better. If its 'run what you brung' then they should all be on Honda's, or better still 'Ducati's', this would demonstrate Parity, but certainly not fairness. The lack of tyre choice is very similar.



I don't believe that parity will ever be attained when competitors need to follow a strict set of design guidelines and perform within a strict set of highly expensive windows, to have a chance of victory. For me Parity and a more Fair series can only be gained if manufactures and riders have a chance to play to their strengths.

Conspiracy, what conspiracy? They decided to change the tires very late, only after hiring Loris Capirossi as 'tire advisor', buts thats ok. It was simply a coincidence he introduced a soft marshmellow front, and totally withdrew the hard, thats ok. Rossi likes a soft front tire.

^^^ hey Cliche, see what i mean. Ridicule deserved.

No tyres for Honda to test with but tyres for Ducati to test with at Mugello 2 weeks ago. Fair and balanced.



Quality governance by Dorna. Change the rules but don't check to see whether the product can actually be supplied or not. Oh sorry they did check, "Bridgestone, do you have enough tyres for Rossi to test? Yes, great. We will change the rules now then. Hey Rossi, good to go mate!"

the tyre situation is poor but to suggest its all centered around rossi is ridicolous.

yamaha also liked the new tyre better,hardly in rossis intrest right?

i think both the tyres and the extra weight were introduced to make the crts more competitive. if there are bikes that have difficulties in getting to lower weight and struggling to get temperature into the tyres because they lack in performance it surely must be them.

if anything that would have to be "rossis luck" (altough its funny to speak of that at the moment) that his bike is a benefits of rules and regulations that are surely intended to help others.

Mental Anarchist said:

No tyres for Honda to test with but tyres for Ducati to test with at Mugello 2 weeks ago. Fair and balanced.



Quality governance by Dorna. Change the rules but don't check to see whether the product can actually be supplied or not. Oh sorry they did check, "Bridgestone, do you have enough tyres for Rossi to test? Yes, great. We will change the rules now then. Hey Rossi, good to go mate!"

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I believe Ducati tested on the old fronts!

Dorna stated when the new fronts came in that each rider would get two of the new fronts at each race meeting till after silerstone!

Then they would be readily available as part of the riders quota for the rest of the season.



Do you have any proof of Ducati using the new fronts for testing or is it just speculation?

Mental Anarchist said:

No tyres for Honda to test with but tyres for Ducati to test with at Mugello 2 weeks ago. Fair and balanced.



Quality governance by Dorna. Change the rules but don't check to see whether the product can actually be supplied or not. Oh sorry they did check, "Bridgestone, do you have enough tyres for Rossi to test? Yes, great. We will change the rules now then. Hey Rossi, good to go mate!"

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Did they test the new tyres during Mugello test?? D u have a link?

No they didnt test the new tyres at Mugello - At least no mention of it, you would of thought it would of been mentioned in the many articles if they were.



On the HRC aspect - No worreis for me, I seem to remember Stoner being crucifued by many in the past for saying the tyres either didnt match his style or his bike, same goes for Rossi at times too.



You make the bike work with the tyres through the setup - END OF!!

Mental Anarchist said:

No tyres for Honda to test with but tyres for Ducati to test with at Mugello 2 weeks ago. Fair and balanced.



Quality governance by Dorna. Change the rules but don't check to see whether the product can actually be supplied or not. Oh sorry they did check, "Bridgestone, do you have enough tyres for Rossi to test? Yes, great. We will change the rules now then. Hey Rossi, good to go mate!"

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~ guess I'm oversimplifying it, (my own limits) but I can't get past



1. Everyone's on the same tire

2. Ohlins makes the Suspension for all but 3 (I think) teams



Tire conspiracy against Honda?? ,, If that's true then Marquez is actually riding a 700.



IMO - the "Blaming the tires" excuse lost a bit of steam when Toni Elias got away from the Bridgestones, then couldn't break streetbike speed during his BMW audition on Prelli's, nor break-out of "mid pack" status on moto2 Dunslicks. Wasn't a spec tire rule supposed to take that out of equation? It did for me.

Yams on top at todays test..imagine that

Mental Anarchist said:

No tyres for Honda to test with but tyres for Ducati to test with at Mugello 2 weeks ago. Fair and balanced.



Quality governance by Dorna. Change the rules but don't check to see whether the product can actually be supplied or not. Oh sorry they did check, "Bridgestone, do you have enough tyres for Rossi to test? Yes, great. We will change the rules now then. Hey Rossi, good to go mate!"

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Stoner said. The Australian was coy about the parts that he had tested and that had made the difference, saying only "It's a very small part, something we didn't really expect. But there you go, it's usually a two dollar part that makes such a big fuss, it can be a two dollar part that breaks in a race and ruins your day, so hopefully it will be a two dollar part that makes my day and helps us finish out this year without chatter." That was what he did not want to do, Stoner said, spend his last year of racing fighting against chatter. motomatters.com

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Its those ....... tires I tell you!



Bridgestones on sale: $2.00

Jumkie said:

Bridgestones on sale: $2.00

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MA posting more pure quality rubbish!





Its looks to me as if all four Yamaha's have benefited the most, Ducati remain a nice consistent 1 second back........Repsol Honda should have been there at Aragon, the dummy spit was silly, I'm sure there are many things to be gained from all of these testing laps-even without the new front. Which of course their competitors have done-probably except Ducati, as they can't seem to move anywhere unless in rains. I can't see them finding the time they need to keep Rossi before the end of the season, especially now-too little-too late, one can only assume that there will be enough good info passed one for a younger rider to maybe keep them in the top 6 next year.......



Back to Honda, with such 'huge' chatter issues, you would think they had to most to gain from this test, not too mention making their well paid riders do some laps, especially Stoner, who's race weekend strategy of least laps possible I believe is now hurting Honda-as it did Ducati-he is their top rider-they need him out cutting laps as often as possible.......or perhaps the retirement has changed many things in the collective mind of HRC........As it stands Jorge is forging ahead, with the Tech III's in hot pursuit. At the very least Honda has once again highlighted the farcical situation that is Rubber supply in Motogp-and maybe something will finally be done about it.

johnnyvvc said:

No they didnt test the new tyres at Mugello - At least no mention of it, you would of thought it would of been mentioned in the many articles if they were.



On the HRC aspect - No worreis for me, I seem to remember Stoner being crucifued by many in the past for saying the tyres either didnt match his style or his bike, same goes for Rossi at times too.



You make the bike work with the tyres through the setup - END OF!!

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That's what I thought, cheers.

You doing silverstone jvvc?