Rank the Factory Machines

chopperman said:

Your comparing a factory Honda to a satellite Yamaha though !

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Tom said:

Thats pretty much what i said earlier, although you are more confident about the change than myself. Although to add to your argument, Furusawa is going and perhaps a more significant loss than Valentino

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Jumkie said:

Question: Which factory bike do you consider to be the best all around bike? What is your reasoning for your choice? What chance do riders on sub-par packages have of scoring a win let alone a championship?



With all this talk recently by some members saying Yamaha has become a liability for its riders (much of this opinion based on Aragon and recent factory riders results), I got to thinking. Here is something I find very interesting. Yamaha riders and some fans are saying how the Yamaha has collapsed because its lost its clear advantage, right? (As I'm sure they are not arguing that the Yamaha was "equal" or lacking to the other brands this season.) It appears that these riders, who have complained themselves (Spies, Lorenzo, Edwards, & Rossi) seem to indicate they cannot ride around the problems they are experiencing (and at this point they've only pointed to being "down on power" though its not as much as they may think as I will show below). So, what does this say for the competitive reality that riders on sub par packages must face?



I know there has been that rare member who is a fan first (while damning reality) who argues that the Ducati has been on par with the Yamaha or Honda (perhaps to convince themselves that their preferred riders are beating others fair and square.) They have even argued (though its become increasingly hard to debate) there is a discrepancy among Factory Yamaha riders to show how unfair and disadvantaged one may be over the other to explain results (some even suggesting sabotage).



If they are correct and they are using this logic to explain results, how come this same logic is rarely used to conclude that other riders (on sub-par machines) don't stand a chance? Like the Ducati riders who have had front end issues all year (something crucial to the performance on a GP machine). Again, what chance then do other riders have on sub par packages to challenge for wins? If Yamaha in my opinion is clearly the best handling, most planted bike, and still superior, which has won several times by being "slow" on the straights (fact) has won the most races & podiums this season (fact) while in this condition, what chance do others have in securing a title? (Lorenzo said in an interview that this is not the best podium Hayden has had because Nicky profited from his "slow" bike). Well lets see just how "slow" his bike really was shall we: here is the fact, Hayden’s bike speed 319.6, Lorenzo’s 319.5. (I'll do the math for you guys, its -0.1kph). So, Lorenzo says he’s got a “slow” bike, Yamaha fans swallow it all up and start claim the Yamaha has collapsed, but we are talking about 0.1 kph! So lets compare Lorenzo’s “slow” bike to Casey’s the race winner, Stoner 319.8. So Lorenzo was down 0.3 kph, not exactly the end of the world. Spies described his “slow” bike as a “handicap” yet his was only 0.7 kph slower than Lorenzo’s! Not even one whole kph! Oh, and if you must know, Rossi’s bike (320.1) was in fact faster than both factory Ducatis, faster than his teammate, and faster than Spies. Not by much, but if Lorenzo & Spies are gonna complain and remind us their bikes were “slow” and their competitors benefited, well then its fair to say Rossi’s bike had a speed advantage (which would be an odd strategy for sabotage if they are making Rossi’s bike faster, haha).



1. So, in your opinion, which is the best all around factory bike in MotoGP? Explain please. 2. How realistic is it for a rider to compete for a title on a sub-par package?

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Tom said:

I like this thread. But the question i put to you guys is how do you judge the relative levals of the bikes?



Obviously the rider can have a massive impact on how good a bike appears to be, so is it fairer to look at the manufacturers points? Or at the average result of a bike over all its riders in all its specification? Even then, the best bikes will attract the best riders (who of course help develop those bikes) and the same applies the other way around. Whatever you do there is no absolute judgement i can think of. It makes for a good discussion

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Tom said:

I like this thread. But the question i put to you guys is how do you judge the relative levals of the bikes?



Obviously the rider can have a massive impact on how good a bike appears to be, so is it fairer to look at the manufacturers points? Or at the average result of a bike over all its riders in all its specification? Even then, the best bikes will attract the best riders (who of course help develop those bikes) and the same applies the other way around. Whatever you do there is no absolute judgement i can think of. It makes for a good discussion

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Tom said:

I like this thread. But the question i put to you guys is how do you judge the relative levals of the bikes?



... It makes for a good discussion

Click to expand...

Tom said:

I like this thread. But the question i put to you guys is how do you judge the relative levals of the bikes?



Obviously the rider can have a massive impact on how good a bike appears to be, so is it fairer to look at the manufacturers points? Or at the average result of a bike over all its riders in all its specification? Even then, the best bikes will attract the best riders (who of course help develop those bikes) and the same applies the other way around. Whatever you do there is no absolute judgement i can think of. It makes for a good discussion

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chopperman said:

Your comparing a factory Honda to a satellite Yamaha though !

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http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Oct/101028b.htm

Ben Spies: Watch What Happens Now

by dean adams

Thursday, October 28, 2010



Spies: Stoner on a Honda is a scary thought.

With the 2010 MotoGP championship decided and just two rounds remaining, many eyes are on 2011.



Valentino Rossi's switch from Yamaha to Ducati will, of course, garner the majority of the page views around the globe as the Italian becomes part of an Italy-based Superteam of Italian rider and Italian bike. (Much to the chagrin of Loris Capirossi and Marco Melandri.)



Rossi to Ducati might snare headlines but there are other seat-swaps in the mix. American Ben Spies will replace him on the factory Yamaha team and Australian Casey Stoner will join the factory Honda MotoGP squad. The latter pairing is the one that new MotoGP Rookie of the Year Ben Spies finds interesting.



"Casey on a Honda could be a very scary situation," the American said. "The Honda's working quite well now. When Casey's on, there's been nobody on a Ducati that can touch him. Those are just facts. So it's going to be scary to see what he does on a Honda. Again, it's one of those things that could go really bad for everybody. We'll have to see.

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