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Back in the day if there were a championship for looks the Kawasaki would have won hands down.
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Very true especially if you go by the finishes of the satellite bikes this year, I believe DePuniet and Simoncelli reinforce that Honda's package is good. Spies puts his satellite bike up front but I wonder how much of that is down to his alien status? I just have to give the Yamy the edge because that bike always looks planted.
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Well according the voting Yamaha seems to be the best overall package. Which seems reasonable to me; however, Honda has got several votes, which is a bit interesting. While those who voted for Honda (particulatly Povol, Geonerd, Curve, & LeviG) may want to consider a few interesting facts:
Wins:
Yamaha 8
Honda 4
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Podiums:
Yamaha 35
Honda 13
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Laps Led:
Yamaha 173
Honda 126
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Poles:
Yamaha 7
Honda 4
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Factory championship points:
Yamaha 424
Honda 367
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Keep in mind, this is with Rossi missing races and injured, yet still Yamaha dominate. The numbers would have been even more in Yamaha’s favor if Rossi had remained healthy.
So in about every measurable stat, Yamaha comes up on top without exception.
As I said at the beginning of this thread, it seems a few look to the top speed of the Honda and conclude, it’s a better bike. Speed traps may not paint the picture most are assigning it however, as in fact speed is a function of time. Therefore, if a set distance is covered over less time, the average speed is faster for the person coming in first. That means since Yamaha has scored twice as many wins than Honda, it was actually faster over that race distance (which should give you a clue as to how well handling they negotiate turns). Here is another point to consider for those ignoring the overwhelming evidence that Yamaha is by far the better overall package by assigning too much importance to trap speed/top speed; very often the satellite Ducati’s in fact register the top speed in many events. Nobody is going to say these are the best bikes right? That’s what you need to know about top speed.
So either people who voted for Honda are ignoring this above, or are just going with their gut and voting for which brand they think is the best?
Wins:
Yamaha 8
Honda 4
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Podiums:
Yamaha 35
Honda 13
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Laps Led:
Yamaha 173
Honda 126
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Poles:
Yamaha 7
Honda 4
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Factory championship points:
Yamaha 424
Honda 367
Advantage-Yamaha (not even close)
Keep in mind, this is with Rossi missing races and injured, yet still Yamaha dominate. The numbers would have been even more in Yamaha’s favor if Rossi had remained healthy.
So in about every measurable stat, Yamaha comes up on top without exception.
As I said at the beginning of this thread, it seems a few look to the top speed of the Honda and conclude, it’s a better bike. Speed traps may not paint the picture most are assigning it however, as in fact speed is a function of time. Therefore, if a set distance is covered over less time, the average speed is faster for the person coming in first. That means since Yamaha has scored twice as many wins than Honda, it was actually faster over that race distance (which should give you a clue as to how well handling they negotiate turns). Here is another point to consider for those ignoring the overwhelming evidence that Yamaha is by far the better overall package by assigning too much importance to trap speed/top speed; very often the satellite Ducati’s in fact register the top speed in many events. Nobody is going to say these are the best bikes right? That’s what you need to know about top speed.
So either people who voted for Honda are ignoring this above, or are just going with their gut and voting for which brand they think is the best?
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I'd like to see those stat's as a % to give a true indication of the scale of superiority.
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Geez compa, its even gonna look more dramatic. Ok no prob.
Wins: Yamaha have twice as many, that means of all the wins between the two brands, Yamaha has won 66% of the time. (that's what we call ... wup)
Podiums: Yamaha has over two and a half times more, that means of all the podiums between the two brands, Yamaha has registered 73% of them. (.......)
Laps Led: of all the laps lead between the two brands, Yamaha has led 58% of the time. (if this was an election, we'd call it a landslide)
Poles: Yamaha has almost twice as many, that means of all the poles between the two brands, Yamaha has pole 64% of them. (Even a pole by a satellite)
Factory WC points: Of the points scored by the factory riders of the two brands, Yamaha has scored 57% of them. (Can you say Title?)
Is there any doubt? Yamaha is by far the best.
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Not % between the 2 i mean out of the possible .so eg if yam won 5 out of 10 races that would be 50% and if honda won 4 out of that 10 that would be 40% meaning there was a 10% daminance betweenn them. Come on jum stop cooking the books
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Not % between the 2 i mean out of the possible .so eg if yam won 5 out of 10 races that would be 50% and if honda won 4 out of that 10 that would be 40% meaning there was a 10% daminance betweenn them. Come on jum stop cooking the books
I'm comparing the two brands you gimp. The only other brand that has won, and only once, was Duc. So its not that significant. I tell you what, break out your calculator, its only simple arithmetic, I think you can do the math.
I think yamaha is the best bike out on track at the minute but honda are catching up probably wont win the champioship this year but next year. And i thought we were voting the bike not the rider. As its the rider thats got the points. And those figures you qouted - sorry i'm not a statistition (or good at spelling) but are they the same if you only count fiat yamaha riders and only repsol honda riders and not the satalite bikes?
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Arrabbiata1
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The Yamaha is the best all round bike this season - which is traditionally the way. IMO Honda design less accommodating race bikes with narrower parameters of adjustment, requiring more in the way of rider flexibility - in fact the RCV211V was such a great bike it was capable of winning races out of the crate and practically worked everywhere off the factory settings, so didn't need much in the way of adjustment
Historically, prior to that, you had to adjust your riding style to the various incarnations of the NSR, as opposed to the bike to the rider. That's what made Doohan, Spencer, Digger, Lawson and Vale so great, because many others were unable to do this.
Frost makes great points - the current Honda is durable - practically indestructible, full of grunt, and fast and of late looks like the most rounded package. Not only does it seem to command the highest top speed, it accelerates - punches - out of corners. Nevertheless, Spies observation last weekend that credit is due to Dani for riding the crap out of it is very true. Stop start Motegi, and the monster back to back straights at Sepang will continue to suit the RCV - and Dani is seemingly unstoppable at Valencia, but like Berry said in another thread - Philip Island will be fascinating this year, where Ducati and Yamaha have thrived in recent years - and I'm pretty sure that Estoril is still on Lorenzo's map. The Honda is the bike to be on next season nonetheless.
I'm still not convinced that Ducati have sorted that errant front end.
Frost makes great points - the current Honda is durable - practically indestructible, full of grunt, and fast and of late looks like the most rounded package. Not only does it seem to command the highest top speed, it accelerates - punches - out of corners. Nevertheless, Spies observation last weekend that credit is due to Dani for riding the crap out of it is very true. Stop start Motegi, and the monster back to back straights at Sepang will continue to suit the RCV - and Dani is seemingly unstoppable at Valencia, but like Berry said in another thread - Philip Island will be fascinating this year, where Ducati and Yamaha have thrived in recent years - and I'm pretty sure that Estoril is still on Lorenzo's map. The Honda is the bike to be on next season nonetheless.
I'm still not convinced that Ducati have sorted that errant front end.
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Arrabbiata1
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Yes, Honda is 2nd. Now once you vote we can close this thread.
........forgot to do that
Damn that Jumkie - never misses a trick. (I blame the OCD.)
The Yamaha is the best all round bike this season - which is traditionally the way. IMO Honda design less accommodating race bikes with narrower parameters of adjustment, requiring more in the way of rider flexibility - in fact the RCV211V was such a great bike it was capable of winning races out of the crate and practically worked everywhere off the factory settings, so didn't need much in the way of adjustmentHistorically, prior to that, you had to adjust your riding style to the various incarnations of the NSR, as opposed to the bike to the rider. That's what made Doohan, Spencer, Digger, Lawson and Vale so great, because many others were unable to do this.
Frost makes great points - the current Honda is durable - practically indestructible, full of grunt, and fast and of late looks like the most rounded package. Not only does it seem to command the highest top speed, it accelerates - punches - out of corners. Nevertheless, Spies observation last weekend that credit is due to Dani for riding the crap out of it is very true. Stop start Motegi, and the monster back to back straights at Sepang will continue to suit the RCV - and Dani is seemingly unstoppable at Valencia, but like Berry said in another thread - Philip Island will be fascinating this year, where Ducati and Yamaha have thrived in recent years - and I'm pretty sure that Estoril is still on Lorenzo's map. The Honda is the bike to be on next season nonetheless.
I'm still not convinced that Ducati have sorted that errant front end.
I'm not convinced Ducati have solved the front end problems either. Nicky seems to be giving more credit to the new pavement at Aragon than anything they have done to the bike. As L8 mentioned in another thread he also says Casey's new setup is similar to the one he has been running so I think Casey might still have the mystery falls at the bumpy circuits.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/09/19/nicky-hayden-s-ducati-day
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Your question, I believe was, which was the best bike. I think all those stats you have kindly provided us with, just show that Yamaha have the best riders, you even say the figures would have been higher if ROSSI had not missed any races, and the 1 statistic you didn't include was how many engines they all have left.
Not to take anything away from the riders but............
Yamaha have; ROSSI, Lorenzo, Spies & Edwards. All world class champions in one class or another. Whilst Honda have Pedrosa, Dovi, RDP, Melandri, Aoyama & Simoncelli.
