Rank the Factory Machines

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GP Factory Effort

  • Ducati

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Honda

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Suzuki

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yamaha

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
Jumkie said:
Well according the voting Yamaha seems to be the best overall package. Which seems reasonable to me; however, Honda has got several votes, which is a bit interesting. While those who voted for Honda (particulatly Povol, Geonerd, Curve, & LeviG) may want to consider a few interesting facts:



...



So either people who voted for Honda are ignoring this above, or are just going with their gut and voting for which brand they think is the best?
Click to expand...



Blah, blah... so much statistical diarrhea....



The question reads: "Which IS the best all around bike." Early season statistics are meaningless!

Let's see how the rest of the season pans out, Einstein. Like I said, the Honda is better, but only because of the f-d engine rule.



Let me follow your lead and say something stupid
tongue.gif
: unless Yamaha bite the bullet and go for a new engine, we've seen the last Yam win of the year. Peddles (and hopefully a Duc or two) will sweep the final races, although I'd be happy if Speeez proves me wrong.



smile.gif
 
bonnielass said:
[b]Your question, I believe was, which was the best bike.[/b] I think all those stats you have kindly provided us with, just show that Yamaha have the best riders, you even say the figures would have been higher if ROSSI had not missed any races, and the 1 statistic you didn't include was how many engines they all have left.



Not to take anything away from the riders but............

Yamaha have; ROSSI, Lorenzo, Spies & Edwards. All world class champions in one class or another. Whilst Honda have Pedrosa, Dovi, RDP, Melandri, Aoyama & Simoncelli.
Click to expand...





halfpint, on 21 September 2010 - 02:38 PM, said:



And i thought we were voting the bike not the rider. As its the rider thats got the points. And those figures you qouted - sorry i'm not a statistition (or good at spelling) but are they the same if you only count fiat yamaha riders and only repsol honda riders and not the satalite bikes?





and the rider got those points from his bike getting him across the finish line - i believe is what Factory said was you not listening
<




<
 
SackWack said:
I voted for Honda casue Rossi said he and Stoner could win on the Honda
tongue.gif
Click to expand...



So you voted based on Rossi's speculation rather than the fact that Stoner and rossi can actually win on the Ducati and Yamaha
 
What's your definition of the best all-around bike? The best all-around bike of 2010 or the best all-around bike right now? If we're talking about 2010 on the whole, I'd say the Yamaha takes the cake by a slim margin. It's hard to say because of the stable Yamaha has at the moment. Lorenzo has ridden as well as anyone in the 800cc era, Rossi is Rossi, Spies looks to be the real deal, and Edwards has looked threatening when up for it.



But if you look at the way things have gone recently, you'd have to say the Honda is picking up steam. Like others have said, the engine is bulletproof and stronger than any. Lorenzo, and all the Yams I suppose, must seriously contemplate a penalty for opening up a new engine. No Honda is going to be in any such trouble.



If I'm rewinding to before Qatar and choosing a factory spec bike to run for the season, I'd take the Yamaha. If I'm looking to the rest of the season and 2011, I'd go for the Honda.



If we're talking about 2012, you can't help but put your money on Ducati with the development team of Rossi, Burgess and Hayden.
<
 
Austin said:
What's your definition of the best all-around bike?...
Click to expand...

Hi Austi.



Best all around bike bro, simple. If you’re gonna give undue weight to Dani’s last two wins consider the following. Would your opinion change if a Yamaha would have won Misano? Lorenzo is in championship mode, yet still he finished 1.9 secs from Dani’s Honda. If Lorenzo had to win that race, do you think he could have made up that 1.9 over the race distance? Consider this, though Dani’s Honda won, look to the podium, 2/3 of it were Yamahas.



I’m sure you are away that some tracks favor certain brands and riders. Dani was lights out last year at Indy, he definitely likes that track. Dani won Indy this year. Which perhaps again you are giving undue weight in your evaluation, but consider this, championship mode Lorenzo was 3.5 seconds behind. Again, the podium had 2/3 Yamahas, and a 4th one in tow for good measure. So was it the Honda or Dani? Who knows right? But when you have ¾ of the top 5 spots on the same brand, well you may be able to give some weight to that too.



The rest of the previous events, with one exception was a Yamaha rout. So Dani wins two races lately while Lorenzo is in championship mode, is it fair to say it might have more to do with this in those two races rather than Honda superiority? Just a thought.
 
Jumkie said:
Hi Austi.



Best all around bike bro, simple. If you’re gonna give undue weight to Dani’s last to wins consider the following. Would your opinion change if a Yamaha would have won Misano? Lorenzo is in championship mode, yet still he finished 1.9 secs from Dani’s Honda. If Lorenzo had to win that race, do you think he could have made up that 1.9 over the race distance? Consider this, though Dani’s Honda won, look to the podium, 2/3 of it were Yamahas.



I’m sure you are away that some tracks favor certain brands and riders. Dani was lights out last year at Indy, he definitely likes that track. Dani won Indy this year. Which perhaps again you are giving undue weight in your evaluation, but consider this, championship mode Lorenzo was 3.5 seconds behind. Again, the podium had 2/3 Yamahas, and a 4th one in tow for good measure. So was it the Honda or Dani? Who knows right? But when you have ¾ of the top 5 spots on the same brand, well you may be able to give some weight to that too.



The rest of the previous events, with one exception was a Yamaha rout. So Dani wins two races lately while Lorenzo is in championship mode, is it fair to say it might have more to do with this in those two races rather than Honda superiority? Just a thought.
Click to expand...



+1



by the way, is dani the only rider to use the smaller chassis?

i know dovi isn't the greatest rider ever but i'd be surprised if he really was that much slower than dani....



i think pedrosas honda is the only real factory backed machine...

and even though i have a great deal of respect for his recent performances, the guy's still a freakin midget turd who's afraid stoner might kick his tiny ......otherwise he wouldn't insist on a wall even though everyone agrees that it is NOT in the brands best interest to create a situation in the garage that is even more (!) intense than it is anyways.



i just hope stoner wipes the floor with pedrosa.not because i disrespect pedrosa.but because i happen to hate the way honda has been doing the last couple of years and pedrosa and puig both represent that.





and even though i can see the point in what Krop has been saying...i can remember days when puig didn't have anything to say and the racing was quite good back then.especially because i didn't have to listen to the spanish anthem at every single race man. i mean come on ,don't tell me puig is NOT about helping spanish riders and spanish riders ONLY
 
Tom said:
Stoner and Bradley Smith are both non spanish riders that are here because Puig helped them
Click to expand...





then i guess puig should also be in favor of tearing the wall down,after all if you're planning on being fair to both riders this is the best way to do it.



i know opinions might vary there because of yamahas success but i really think it can't be argued that development will be slowed down when there is no real exchange of data
 
Jumkie said:
Hi Austi.



Best all around bike bro, simple. If you’re gonna give undue weight to Dani’s last two wins consider the following. Would your opinion change if a Yamaha would have won Misano? Lorenzo is in championship mode, yet still he finished 1.9 secs from Dani’s Honda. If Lorenzo had to win that race, do you think he could have made up that 1.9 over the race distance? Consider this, though Dani’s Honda won, look to the podium, 2/3 of it were Yamahas.



I’m sure you are away that some tracks favor certain brands and riders. Dani was lights out last year at Indy, he definitely likes that track. Dani won Indy this year. Which perhaps again you are giving undue weight in your evaluation, but consider this, championship mode Lorenzo was 3.5 seconds behind. Again, the podium had 2/3 Yamahas, and a 4th one in tow for good measure. So was it the Honda or Dani? Who knows right? But when you have ¾ of the top 5 spots on the same brand, well you may be able to give some weight to that too.



The rest of the previous events, with one exception was a Yamaha rout. So Dani wins two races lately while Lorenzo is in championship mode, is it fair to say it might have more to do with this in those two races rather than Honda superiority? Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Very valid arguments, Jum, and tough to argue against. I just get the feeling that the Honda is becoming the IT bike again. Dovi has found himself at the front a fair number of occasions this season and de Puniet has looked better than ever. Like I said, if I had my choice for 2010, I'd take the Yamaha. But they're about to lose the best developmental rider of the four stroke era and Honda aren't too far adrift. The times they are a changin'.
 
Austin said:
Very valid arguments, Jum, and tough to argue against. I just get the feeling that the Honda is becoming the IT bike again. Dovi has found himself at the front a fair number of occasions this season and de Puniet has looked better than ever. Like I said, if I had my choice for 2010, I'd take the Yamaha. But they're about to lose the best developmental rider of the four stroke era and Honda aren't too far adrift. The times they are a changin'.
Click to expand...



Thats pretty much what i said earlier, although you are more confident about the change than myself. Although to add to your argument, Furusawa is going and perhaps a more significant loss than Valentino



Tom said:
Yamaha! If we are talking overall or all round performance then we need to look at a sample of more than 2 or 3 races, if you look closely you can put results down to circumstances or rider qualities, but take a wider view and its clear Yamaha are putting out the best product. The winds might be changing, but i wouldn't call it yet with any confidence.
Click to expand...
 
I cant vote. I can't get myself to vote for the honda or the .... yamaha
<
. The honda seems to be getting well sorted out of late, and the yamaha seems to have engine problems. I also cant help but feel a new track like Arogon cant be a determining factor. Maybe yamahaha just missed the ball on set-up or something. But Montegi next weekend shall be a good test for both. The momentum is really swinging in favor of Jumkies boy Peppers right now, and yamaha willl be determined to put and end to that next weekend. But is the yamaha as dominate is it was when all these stats were being thrown around? No.



Lets see the stats since Germany only. Is there still pure Yamaha domination? No
 
bonnielass said:
Your question, I believe was, which was the best bike. I think all those stats you have kindly provided us with, just show that Yamaha have the best riders, you even say the figures would have been higher if ROSSI had not missed any races, and the 1 statistic you didn't include was how many engines they all have left.



Not to take anything away from the riders but............

Yamaha have; ROSSI, Lorenzo, Spies & Edwards. All world class champions in one class or another. Whilst Honda have Pedrosa, Dovi, RDP, Melandri, Aoyama & Simoncelli.
Click to expand...

Are we talking who has the best bike now, as in today, or what bike has the best stats for the year. As of now , i give the Honda the nod . A Yamaha has not finished ahead of Pedrosa in the last 3 races and the bike has looked dominant. Thats what im basing my vote on, and that is why i picked Pedro or Stoner as my early favorites to win the title in 2011. I think Honda has finally found the answer to the 800's and the new suspension, and as of now, has the strongest bike.That opinion could change drastically if the Ducati has found something magical and dominates the next 3-4 rounds. This season, more than most, seems to ebb and flow as to who has the upper hand. Yamaha early, Honda of late, maybe Ducati for the rest of the season.
 
I voted Honda because of the engine durabillity,acceleration and topspeed.They are probarbly going to win in Valencia or Portugal by 15 sec. ahead of Stoner on the Ducati which also has a great engine in all aspects.He has had one less engine about all season as he blew one in the Quatar crash.

Best chassis has been Yamaha for a few years but as usual the others are catching up.And Lorenzo's engine has to be detuned to last the last races me thinks.(Beaten by Spies?
<
)



By the way,the Yamaha will probarbly no.3 over all midseason next year.No Rossi/Burgess team and no Furuzawa.
 
Anders GUZZI said:
I voted Honda because of the engine durabillity,acceleration and topspeed.They are probarbly going to win in Valencia or Portugal by 15 sec. ahead of Stoner on the Ducati which also has a great engine in all aspects.He has had one less engine about all season as he blew one in the Quatar crash.

Best chassis has been Yamaha for a few years but as usual the others are catching up.And Lorenzo's engine has to be detuned to last the last races me thinks.(Beaten by Spies?
<
)



By the way,the Yamaha will probarbly no.3 over all midseason next year.No Rossi/Burgess team and no Furuzawa.
Click to expand...



Can't say I disagree, the unknown is Jorge and Spies's development capabilities, if they can continue to fine tune that chassis and make up for the underpowered donk then it will be interesting.
 
Tom said:
Thats pretty much what i said earlier, although you are more confident about the change than myself. Although to add to your argument, Furusawa is going and perhaps a more significant loss than Valentino
Click to expand...

Very good point that no one has really touched upon.
 
Austin said:
Very good point that no one has really touched upon.
Click to expand...



I see both losses as roughly equal. Valentino has limited effectiveness as he gets older. Likewise, Furusawa's effectiveness as technical director is limited b/c he's already developed two different versions (990cc and 800cc) of the crossplane crank M1 engine.



The fans perceive the losses differently b/c we know who Rossi's heir will be. We don't know anything about the engineering department at Yamaha. It is the unknown that makes Furusawa's departure look more dangerous. In reality, Yamaha might have another "Lorenzo" in the engineering department.
 
Actually there is evidence (regarding bikes disparate from current motogp bikes but perhaps less so from 2012) that spies can develop.



I agree that they may miss furosawa. Their engine does look to have been surpassed at present; I am unsure how much the engine rule limitations are operating and whether there is anything left to get from the engine in the last year of the formula with or without furosawa; you would think it would be more difficult without him.
 

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