Rank the Factory Machines

Question: Which factory bike do you consider to be the best all around bike? What is your reasoning for your choice? What chance do riders on sub-par packages have of scoring a win let alone a championship?



With all this talk recently by some members saying Yamaha has become a liability for its riders (much of this opinion based on Aragon and recent factory riders results), I got to thinking. Here is something I find very interesting. Yamaha riders and some fans are saying how the Yamaha has collapsed because its lost its clear advantage, right? (As I'm sure they are not arguing that the Yamaha was "equal" or lacking to the other brands this season.) It appears that these riders, who have complained themselves (Spies, Lorenzo, Edwards, & Rossi) seem to indicate they cannot ride around the problems they are experiencing (and at this point they've only pointed to being "down on power" though its not as much as they may think as I will show below). So, what does this say for the competitive reality that riders on sub par packages must face?



I know there has been that rare member who is a fan first (while damning reality) who argues that the Ducati has been on par with the Yamaha or Honda (perhaps to convince themselves that their preferred riders are beating others fair and square.) They have even argued (though its become increasingly hard to debate) there is a discrepancy among Factory Yamaha riders to show how unfair and disadvantaged one may be over the other to explain results (some even suggesting sabotage).



If they are correct and they are using this logic to explain results, how come this same logic is rarely used to conclude that other riders (on sub-par machines) don't stand a chance? Like the Ducati riders who have had front end issues all year (something crucial to the performance on a GP machine). Again, what chance then do other riders have on sub par packages to challenge for wins? If Yamaha in my opinion is clearly the best handling, most planted bike, and still superior, which has won several times by being "slow" on the straights (fact) has won the most races & podiums this season (fact) while in this condition, what chance do others have in securing a title? (Lorenzo said in an interview that this is not the best podium Hayden has had because Nicky profited from his "slow" bike). Well lets see just how "slow" his bike really was shall we: here is the fact, Hayden’s bike speed 319.6, Lorenzo’s 319.5. (I'll do the math for you guys, its -0.1kph). So, Lorenzo says he’s got a “slow” bike, Yamaha fans swallow it all up and start claim the Yamaha has collapsed, but we are talking about 0.1 kph! So lets compare Lorenzo’s “slow” bike to Casey’s the race winner, Stoner 319.8. So Lorenzo was down 0.3 kph, not exactly the end of the world. Spies described his “slow” bike as a “handicap” yet his was only 0.7 kph slower than Lorenzo’s! Not even one whole kph! Oh, and if you must know, Rossi’s bike (320.1) was in fact faster than both factory Ducatis, faster than his teammate, and faster than Spies. Not by much, but if Lorenzo & Spies are gonna complain and remind us their bikes were “slow” and their competitors benefited, well then its fair to say Rossi’s bike had a speed advantage (which would be an odd strategy for sabotage if they are making Rossi’s bike faster, haha).



1. So, in your opinion, which is the best all around factory bike in MotoGP? Explain please. 2. How realistic is it for a rider to compete for a title on a sub-par package?

Im saying it's still the Yam but its funny how we never see all 4 at the sharp end ever. Edwards is still bringing up the rear, spies bike seems to have found some more gee gee's from somewhere. Lorenzo has dropped off a bit but that could be engine conservation or his team reminding him to just wrap up the championship. Pointless talking about rossi's bike here as its being debated to death everywhere else.

I will say the Yamaha is tops. I think if Rossi was healthy this season we would see Yamaha 1 and 2. Plus Spies is doing very good on a "non factory" bike this year and Edwards took 5th on the customer Yamaha last year....so Yamaha takes best complete package IMO.



If Honda was this stong last year...then this season the RC212V might have taken the cake.





I will guess that Ducati will have the best 1000cc bike for 2012 with Rossi/Burgess and Hayden developing the bikes.

I think the Yamaha was but the Honda now is. Now that Pedrosa has seemed to sort out the Honda, it seems to be a lot quicker than the Yamaha.

woody996 said:

I think the Yamaha was but the Honda now is. Now that Pedrosa has seemed to sort out the Honda, it seems to be a lot quicker than the Yamaha.

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I voted for the Yamaha but I think you are right about the Honda. I think the engine rule is starting to play into this and Honda has a clear advantage over everyone here.

The Yamaha handles better than anything else (thanks to 7 years of Doc),The Honda and Duc are the fastest bikes, Honda handles better than Duc.. Pedros little girl frame helps him accelerate more than the rest... bring in a combined rider bike weight rule.

It's not the Honda. Pedrosa's Honda is like Rossi's Yamaha--it's different from the others b/c each has their own chassis variant. Rossi's Yamaha is the only Yamaha that sucks (well Colin's too but he might be riding some of Rossi's stuff). Dani's Honda is the only Honda capable of running at the front, but the bike still struggles with fuel economy.



No doubt, the best all around bike is still the Yamaha.

Given roughly equal power, the Yamaha is best. With the addition of that ....... absurd motor limit, I think the 2007 Pedrocycle has (at long last) gained superiority over all others.

Suzuki -- None of the aliens ever manage to pass them during a race. If a rider really gives it everything he's got, he may be able to get around a Suzuki rider but only at the very end of a race -- but that's his only window of opportunity.

the yam.... most planted & best handling.

Agile said:

Suzuki -- None of the aliens ever manage to pass them during a race. If a rider really gives it everything he's got, he may be able to get around a Suzuki rider but only at the very end of a race -- but that's his only window of opportunity.

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I was thinking the same thing.



Also Suzuki is scoring championship points with a very small budget (so what if the grid many times is already at 16 bikes and 2 of those bikes are Rizla Suzukis!!! )



There is also the possibility of Kawasaki having the best bike for this year......the 2010 Kawasaki ZX-RR is so good it was banned at the end of the 08 season!! Melandri did great on one bike for all of 2009 (no updates all season) that the rest of the field feared what might happen if they had 6 engines that they could update as the season progressed!!

Yamaha overall, but the Honda has looked good and great at various times after the first few races. Top ten shows Yam/Honda pretty close.

I think that it is pretty clear that as an all-round package the Yamaha has few faults. As I have discussed previously I think that this is 100% the result of the way Rossi and primarily JB approach a bike - eliminate faults.



The other bikes I think have some advantages over the Yamaha but more importantly have disadvantages over the Yamaha. In the current formula of MotoGP small mistakes are punished harder than certainly the 990 era and potentially the 500 era also. Here in lies the absolute strength of the Yamaha, because the riders are not riding around problems with the package they are able to ride on the limit far more comfortably and more consistently without making errors.



In my opinion by mid way through next season the Yamaha will have lost this strength. Why? Because as the other manufacturers push forward Yamaha will try to develop advantages rather than eliminate faults and the balance of their package will fall away more and more as they lose memory of the methodology of JB.



2011 WC will be won by a Honda rider I predict.

xx CURVE xx said:

The Yamaha handles better than anything else (thanks to 7 years of Doc),The Honda and Duc are the fastest bikes, Honda handles better than Duc.. Pedros little girl frame helps him accelerate more than the rest... bring in a combined rider bike weight rule.

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agreed



overall i'd say that the yamaha was clearly the best bike and that the honda has slowly started to catch up over the last few races...It'd be interesting to see how good the honda actually will be in 2011

Honda takes it for me,it just seems a better package for the satellite teams.

Yamaha! If we are talking overall or all round performance then we need to look at a sample of more than 2 or 3 races, if you look closely you can put results down to circumstances or rider qualities, but take a wider view and its clear Yamaha are putting out the best product. The winds might be changing, but i wouldn't call it yet with any confidence.

I think the Honda,

it's fast, on the straight it streaks past the other bikes,

it doesn't seem to have any problems with grip, like the Yam & the Duc,

and they have more engines left then anyone else.

Suzuki hands down...I mean seriously folks?????

























I still think the Yamaha is the best overall package, but Pedrosa's Honda might be closer than we all think, unfortunately for Honda it's only Pedrosa's bike that has made improvements throughout the year. Next year, I'm curious which chassis they give Stonver, Dovi's or Pedrosa's? I think it's a moot point as anything they put under Stoner will have the ever loving .... rode out of it!

okay here's my reasoning but please slate me all you like i don't know tons of stuff you lot do about bikes i just like watching.



I was going to pick Kawaski (but its not there) i purely was going to pick them as its a good sturdy bike.

I am a yahama supporter briefer them as a race bike/team if i was a racer id pick that however i picked Honda. Throughout the season their bikes seemed to have been able to hold there own around all the circuits. For instance there are circuits out there suited to ducati and yamaha. Ducati seem to be very good at powering down the long straights and looks heavy. Yahama seem to be good in the turns. Maybe this is silly way of thinking as it could be rider led. But honda seem to be a good all round bike suitable for all the circuits.

L8Braker said:

Suzuki hands down...I mean seriously folks?????

I still think the Yamaha is the best overall package, but Pedrosa's Honda might be closer than we all think, unfortunately for Honda it's only Pedrosa's bike that has made improvements throughout the year. Next year, I'm curious which chassis they give Stonver, Dovi's or Pedrosa's? I think it's a moot point as anything they put under Stoner will have the ever loving .... rode out of it!

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Dovi's Honda has been up the sharp end for the most part of this season, he's been on the podium 4 times, I think that's pretty good.