Pedrosa renews contract , Dovisioso also renewed ,Viñales to Yamaha

J4rn0 · May 21, 2016

michaelm said:
So Ducati themselves were relaxed about him depriving them of a dual podium by allowing his ambition to outweigh his talent, and his 2 in 7 finishing rate in his last 7 races?

At Ducati they had years to evaluate Iannone and Dovi, whatever happened in just a few races wouldn't have changed their choice. Lorenzo's contract is said to be in the region of 24 millions -- when a rider can command that much, he can command also some collaterals... And when you spend so much on a rider, you want his teammate to have a collaborative attitude.

#22 · May 21, 2016

Totally disagree.

michaelm · May 21, 2016

J4rn0 said:
At Ducati they had years to evaluate Iannone and Dovi, whatever happened in just a few races wouldn't have changed their choice. Lorenzo's contract is said to be in the region of 24 millions -- when a rider can command that much, he can command also some collaterals... And when you spend so much on a rider, you want his teammate to have a collaborative attitude.

3 finishes in 9 races (half a season) then, on a bike which Gigi thinks (rightly or wrongly) is championship capable.

I was a fan, liked him in moto 2, thought he was shaping to be the next big thing and still think he is intrinsically faster than Vinales, but he also still seems to be crazy Joe.

If you are saying Lorenzo and others wouldn't want him as a team-mate because they see him as the moto GP equivalent of Kvyat, fair enough. I think it is past the stage of saying that they are scared he is better than them though, he is 26, no longer a rookie and shows no signs of becoming sufficiently strategically/tactically aware to put a consistent season together.

yamfan · May 21, 2016

In Argentina it was said Iannone had a contract with Ducati's factory team, ready to be signed in Jerez. After the incident with Dovi it was ripped up and supposedly negotiations re started with the battle with Dovi for the seat in the team.
Maybe it didn't do him a lotion good credit wise, when Dovi got up and pushed his bike over the line to gain points. Instead of doing likewise Iannone was shown sat on a white plastic garden chair that the marshals were using. I know he could've been unable due to injury, but it didn't look good from an onlookers perspective.
The team didn't look impressed at Iannone that day, but Dovi got a good reception from them.
Little things add up...

gekko1ro · May 22, 2016

just for the sake of irony, i wish next year iannone on the suzuki to beat vinales on the yamaha

danski · May 22, 2016

gekko1ro said:
just for the sake of irony, i wish next year iannone on the suzuki to beat vinales on the yamaha

Iannone is better in a race imo, Vinales is good on a single lap but overall race pace is in question.

Barbedwirebikerr · Apr 29, 2019

Wonder how Vinales would have done if he had stayed at Suzuki? I reckon he'd be in a better position both championship and mentally had he stayed.

Keshav · Apr 29, 2019

Barbedwirebikerr said:
Wonder how Vinales would have done if he had stayed at Suzuki? I reckon he'd be in a better position both championship and mentally had he stayed.

We can speculate this to death, but I don't think we'll ever really know the truth. It may be that that he's burning out quicker than others and can't mentally keep up. How many times have we seen riders lauded as the next-big-thing - only to find they'd peaked in the previous season? There was just so much pressure on him to be just that when he went to Yamaha. Remember when Lorenzo became Rossi's teammate? He immediately started giving Rossi fits and after some spectacular high-sides started beating Rossi on a regular basis. Vinales is clearly not able to fill Lorenzo's shoes. Much as I'm not a Rossi fan - I think it's way to easy and convenient to blame him for Vinales' failing to live up to expectations.

Barbedwirebikerr · Apr 29, 2019

Keshav said:
We can speculate this to death, but I don't think we'll ever really know the truth. It may be that that he's burning out quicker than others and can't mentally keep up. How many times have we seen riders lauded as the next-big-thing - only to find they'd peaked in the previous season? There was just so much pressure on him to be just that when he went to Yamaha. Remember when Lorenzo became Rossi's teammate? He immediately started giving Rossi fits and after some spectacular high-sides started beating Rossi on a regular basis. Vinales is clearly not able to fill Lorenzo's shoes. Much as I'm not a Rossi fan - I think it's way to easy and convenient to blame him for Vinales' failing to live up to expectations.

We'll never know.

Yes, pressure from taking the Yamaha contract. A proven race and championship winning ride. Agree it's all speculation, but I can't help but feel he would have developed in a more linear fashion had he stuck with the Suzuki ride. Much can be also said about Yamaha's apparent loss of development direction evidenced by performances across last few seasons.

33 Coupe · Apr 30, 2019

I think the answer is pretty simple really. To me it's the tyres. As Jum bought up once or twice, tyres are the most crucial thing to a rider, moreso than the bike itself. Stoner proved a tyre & rider can overcome a mediocre bike when bridgestone developed a tyre to suit the Ducati. As soon as his preference was removed from the allotment, he went from looking like a riding god, to looking like a rider who saw god when the Ducati tried to kill him.

Vinales ended at Suzuki and started at Yamaha with a tyre he was comfortable with, and his results justifiably had him as a contender. Early in the 2017 season, the ........ rider vote ordered by Dorna on behalf of Rossi, resulted in his tyre preference being removed from the allocation available and his results suffered from that moment on. I'm sorry Mav, but your prefered tyre is unavailable as of now, we all agreed you can't have it. Try this one, we all think it's better than the other one. Thanks.

While I'm not putting Vinales in Stoners company as a rider, I see directly comparible results when their prefered tyre was removed from the available allotment. Both were pretty dominant at the time up until there tyre was removed, then results went south dramatically in comparison. Rossi proved how crucial tyres were when he threw Michelin under the bus in preference to Bridgestone in 2008, then went and beat Stoner to the Championship. Stoner lost his prefered tyre, and Rossi gained a tyre he prefered, and the championship went accordingly.

Pretty simple IMO. IT'S THE TYRES.

Theo · Apr 30, 2019

33 Coupe said:
I think the answer is pretty simple really. To me it's the tyres. As Jum bought up once or twice, tyres are the most crucial thing to a rider, moreso than the bike itself. Stoner proved a tyre & rider can overcome a mediocre bike when bridgestone developed a tyre to suit the Ducati. As soon as his preference was removed from the allotment, he went from looking like a riding god, to looking like a rider who saw god when the Ducati tried to kill him.

Vinales ended at Suzuki and started at Yamaha with a tyre he was comfortable with, and his results justifiably had him as a contender. Early in the 2017 season, the ........ rider vote ordered by Dorna on behalf of Rossi, resulted in his tyre preference being removed from the allocation available and his results suffered from that moment on. I'm sorry Mav, but your prefered tyre is unavailable as of now, we all agreed you can't have it. Try this one, we all think it's better than the other one. Thanks.

While I'm not putting Vinales in Stoners company as a rider, I see directly comparible results when their prefered tyre was removed from the available allotment. Both were pretty dominant at the time up until there tyre was removed, then results went south dramatically in comparison. Rossi proved how crucial tyres were when he threw Michelin under the bus in preference to Bridgestone in 2008, then went and beat Stoner to the Championship. Stoner lost his prefered tyre, and Rossi gained a tyre he prefered, and the championship went accordingly.

Pretty simple IMO. IT'S THE TYRES.

I think its the politics of choice that made Rossi unbeatable.

33 Coupe · Apr 30, 2019

Rossi has never been unbeatable (except during 2002 on RC211V). But when he hasn't got a tyre he is comfortable with, I would say he is less than competitive. Whenever he is struggling, the tyres have more often than not been his reasoning. Yamaha have had to wear the brunt of the blame recently due to Rossi's tyre machinations last year. He can't really blame the tyre introduced on his behalf during 2017, so the M1 has been the sacrificial lamb since then.

Keshav · Apr 30, 2019

33 Coupe said:
I think the answer is pretty simple really. To me it's the tyres. As Jum bought up once or twice, tyres are the most crucial thing to a rider, moreso than the bike itself. Stoner proved a tyre & rider can overcome a mediocre bike when bridgestone developed a tyre to suit the Ducati. As soon as his preference was removed from the allotment, he went from looking like a riding god, to looking like a rider who saw god when the Ducati tried to kill him.

Vinales ended at Suzuki and started at Yamaha with a tyre he was comfortable with, and his results justifiably had him as a contender. Early in the 2017 season, the ........ rider vote ordered by Dorna on behalf of Rossi, resulted in his tyre preference being removed from the allocation available and his results suffered from that moment on. I'm sorry Mav, but your prefered tyre is unavailable as of now, we all agreed you can't have it. Try this one, we all think it's better than the other one. Thanks.

While I'm not putting Vinales in Stoners company as a rider, I see directly comparible results when their prefered tyre was removed from the available allotment. Both were pretty dominant at the time up until there tyre was removed, then results went south dramatically in comparison. Rossi proved how crucial tyres were when he threw Michelin under the bus in preference to Bridgestone in 2008, then went and beat Stoner to the Championship. Stoner lost his prefered tyre, and Rossi gained a tyre he prefered, and the championship went accordingly.

Pretty simple IMO. IT'S THE TYRES.

Well . . . not exactly. Yes - Stoner lost that advantage, but unlike Vinales - he did prevail by riding around a coterie of Ducati inadequacies. And unlike Vinales (yes I know you are not making a precise comparison) Stoner went to another manufacturer's bike (on which nobody was regularly competitive) and started (and continued) winning. Even w the pre-control tire B-Stones the Ducati was an overlong, non-cornering pig that had to be strong-armed around corners, which IMHO - a feat that rightly had other more experienced riders scratching their heads and proclaiming "Stoner, he rides like a God." and "I can watch other riders and learn their tricks, but Stoner, I don't get it. No idea how he does that.".

33 Coupe · Apr 30, 2019

It's still the tyres to me. I specified I was't comparing Mav to Stoner because clearly they aren't in the same league. Stoner was more adaptable than any rider I have seen, whereas Vinales needs every thing just right. But both suffered greatly when their prefered tyre was taken. Vinales started 2017 on fire on a tyre he liked, but once that tyre was blocked, his results fell through the floor. Since then he has lost confidence & the pressure the press has on him double guessing himself. He was still on the same M1 he was dominant on during testing & the first few rounds, the only thing change was the construction of the tyre. It doesn't get more obvious than that to me. Tyre are that important, moreso to Mav than Stoner.

33 Coupe · Apr 30, 2019

Stoner winning on the Honda isn't relative to the tyre debate. Clearly the Honda was a far superior bike than the Ducati, therefore he was able to win despite the tyres available. If Bridgestone developed a tyre more suitable to Casey, I think we might have seen domination similar to, or surpassing, what we see with MM the last few years.

Keshav · Apr 30, 2019

The conversation became revived here with speculation about whether Vinales would have flourished had he stayed at Suzuki. And much has been made of various factors being blamed for his inability to consistently compete for a spot on the podium - so your comparison to Stoner to my mind rightly implies that the fault is largely with Vinales rather than his equipment or his team.

While it's true the Honda had great advantages over the Ducati when Stoner was riding - perspective on just how much better it was, has evolved, in light of how few riders have had consistent top tier results on it (the Honda) post 2006. It was, most will agree, not nearly as rider friendly as the Yamaha. Over time I think, Pedrosa's multiple wins on the Honda will be recognized as being even that much more impressive.

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Pedrosa renews contract , Dovisioso also renewed ,Viñales to Yamaha

J4rn0

#22

michaelm

yamfan

gekko1ro

danski

Barbedwirebikerr

Keshav

Barbedwirebikerr

33 Coupe

Theo

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