I think you guys have no idea what the "ole two strokes" felt like
you're right, I dont......but the riders who have experienced both bikes say the same ....
/shrug
Paris Hilton...cause for reflection
- Thread starter Jumkie
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you're right, I dont......but the riders who have experienced both bikes say the same ....
/shrug
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Personally - I can't get all that fired up about tobacco money - tho big tobacco is evil.
It's just the way things are.
If Sprogo weren't so needlessly insulting - I would have paid no heed to his pathetic
statement that the acquisition of money trumps the requirement for baseline human
decency.
The only thing that really is annoying are the Boppers who maintain that Rossi is
flawless and god-like - in spite of so much evidence to the contrary.
A few of the big-time (biggest?) Rossi fans here have said that if Rossi were to go
back on his word and allow himself to be sponsored by tobacco money - they would
turn their backs on him. So I can't help wondering if they will put their money where
their mouths are. Or will they quietly pretend that it isn't happening?
It's just the way things are.
If Sprogo weren't so needlessly insulting - I would have paid no heed to his pathetic
statement that the acquisition of money trumps the requirement for baseline human
decency.
The only thing that really is annoying are the Boppers who maintain that Rossi is
flawless and god-like - in spite of so much evidence to the contrary.
A few of the big-time (biggest?) Rossi fans here have said that if Rossi were to go
back on his word and allow himself to be sponsored by tobacco money - they would
turn their backs on him. So I can't help wondering if they will put their money where
their mouths are. Or will they quietly pretend that it isn't happening?
I personally don't really care if he has changed his position on this. Ultimately everyone is a lot more idealistic when younger (hence terrorists convert people when they are young as they are more impressionable) and then as they get older, they realise how things work, what has to happen to get where they want to be. If everyone got crucified for stuff they did or said when they were in their twenties, there would be noone left. I for one am a completely different person to what I was in my 20s, got in a lot of trouble back then. The point is, it is clear his views have changed to some degree. It's a means to an end. What would you do for a 5 million euro payrise (or whatever it is) and to continue your career in a team structured how you want it? I think it is more than just money why Rossi has moved and so does everyone else based on previous threads. Maybe Rossi will transition Marlboro away from Ducati, who knows.
Rossi isn't a saint and neither are you or I.
As I said previously imo the only valid criticism is whether he was grandstanding when he made the original statement thinking there was no chance he would be involved with a team with tobacco sponsorship again. Otherwise the problem is with the sport, not him, given that 2 of the 4 manufacturers and the only 2 teams open to him at the time as has been said are somewhat aligned with tobacco, although I guess rizla products could have other uses.
I highly doubt he will start personally promoting marlboros.
Actually Michael, I wonder if this is the case (and the usual suspects, let it go for a second while I finish), although I don't expect him to start dressing as the Marlboro Man and growing the 70's .... moustache.
I strongly doubt that Marlboro would be accepting of a rider not providing forms of publicity for their product - hang on, wait, we saw that last year when certain Marlboro people whinged, whined and whistled dixie about Stoner and his responsibilities to the product. We have also heard from some forum members that Stoner has the obligation to support by means of publicity the sponsors product irrespective of his personal views - some of these same members have then stated that it is a failing of his that he does not, and as such highly possible to impact his future.
So, the question I have is, if VR is not to actively be used for publicity purposes (and this I mean by sponsored public appearances for Marlboro and the like etc), then do Marlboro know this?
Given the rumours that near full funding for VR has come from Marlboro (subsequent funding from other sources), one could rightly Marlboro to want a high level of return on investment and thus have high expectations.
Time will tell and it will be interesting to see where this does head given VR's past statements, Marlboro's past statements and the commercial reality that is the MotoGP business.
Interesting.
Gaz
Actually Michael, I wonder if this is the case (and the usual suspects, let it go for a second while I finish), although I don't expect him to start dressing as the Marlboro Man and growing the 70's .... moustache..
I strongly doubt that Marlboro would be accepting of a rider not providing forms of publicity for their product - hang on, wait, we saw that last year when certain Marlboro people whinged, whined and whistled dixie about Stoner and his responsibilities to the product. We have also heard from some forum members that Stoner has the obligation to support by means of publicity the sponsors product irrespective of his personal views - some of these same members have then stated that it is a failing of his that he does not, and as such highly possible to impact his future.
So, the question I have is, if VR is not to actively be used for publicity purposes (and this I mean by sponsored public appearances for Marlboro and the like etc), then do Marlboro know this?
Given the rumours that near full funding for VR has come from Marlboro (subsequent funding from other sources), one could rightly Marlboro to want a high level of return on investment and thus have high expectations.
Time will tell and it will be interesting to see where this does head given VR's past statements, Marlboro's past statements and the commercial reality that is the MotoGP business.
Interesting.
Gaz
I had thought about this and yes as you say he is promoting marlboros by wearing the red suit and riding the red bike if he does so, however subliminally. There have been rumours of yellow just with some red.
It will be interesting to see if he makes personal appearances for marlboro which I suspect he may not, but I agree as you say that stoner was greatly criticised for not being keen to do so, and he may have an aversion to tobacco advertising for all we know; certainly marlboro man did not seem keen on him, but I guess there are alternative explanations for that.
Urban Dictinary:
"Compromising your integrity, usually for money. Its that simple."
I'm assuming however you weren't looking for a definition.
And if I believed in a black and white world, it would be simple. But as I went on to say in my post, .... isn't that simple and there are ideals that you can hold dear and profess at age twenty that at 31 (I'm 31 as well) for whatever reason aren't as important as they once were.People learn and change over time, and I can understand that.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
they said they were more spectacular, more unpredictable, MORE dependent on the riders' abilities.
you do know a lot of people with WAYYY better credentials than anyone on here (including me and you lol) says that it's SO MUCH easier to ride to the limit of the bike and stay there. hell, rainey stated that back then the TC were in the riders' wrists and not in the engineers' ECU.
MAYBE the 800s without all the electronics is cut from the same cloth as the 500s, but who rides without electronics?
you do know a lot of people with WAYYY better credentials than anyone on here (including me and you lol) says that it's SO MUCH easier to ride to the limit of the bike and stay there. hell, rainey stated that back then the TC were in the riders' wrists and not in the engineers' ECU.
MAYBE the 800s without all the electronics is cut from the same cloth as the 500s, but who rides without electronics?
I don't see how with modern traction control they can be the same at all. The throttle is a huge part of riding a motorcycle, probably the biggest part from a technical point of view. Now put that in the hands of a black box...
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
There really is no argument as to the Rossi-centric nature of MGP. The closest parallel I see is Tiger and the PGA. Obviously the pertinent dilemma lies with the organizing body and how they deal with the transition from life with a dominant personality/talent to life after these super-novae have waned. Others may disagree but I tend to see this type of athlete (and I include the Jordans, Schummachers, Gretzkys etc...) as surfers of the wave - not creators of it. Using a skiing/boarding analogy I see them as being able to instantly pick the most advantageous fall line for their ride... not creating the terrain itself.
The tobacco issue is an interesting debate is regards to Rossi, It would be fantastic to see how much Phillip Morris is putting in next year in comparison to previous years with the inclusion of AMG, especially with the Germans getting very good exposure. Note they also still have Generali, Enel and TIM.
Whilst I never got into the 'sell out' debate, Rossi did make the initial anti-tobacco statement in 2005, and the year after he was brandishing 'Camel' stronger than ever. It is great fodder for the haters, as we can see, but essentially motorsport would not exist in it's current form without cigarette companies. Rossi's biggest mistake here was announcing that he didn't want tobacco money anymore, which he did achieve over the past 3 years, however a much more private approach to removing himself from the smoke money would have been a better choice, especially with the status quo.
Whilst I never got into the 'sell out' debate, Rossi did make the initial anti-tobacco statement in 2005, and the year after he was brandishing 'Camel' stronger than ever. It is great fodder for the haters, as we can see, but essentially motorsport would not exist in it's current form without cigarette companies. Rossi's biggest mistake here was announcing that he didn't want tobacco money anymore, which he did achieve over the past 3 years, however a much more private approach to removing himself from the smoke money would have been a better choice, especially with the status quo.
I think we need a .... stirring emoticon.
Noooooo, Baz would fill his emoticon quota every post......
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Talps, I'm curious to know how pointing out what he vowed as a matter of record is assigned hater status.
Second, if I said, 'man I wish people didn't smoke because it leads to health problems, and since I'm in a position to influence people, I think I'll make a statement against it.' How is this a mistake? Or is it just you trying to justify his reversal now? I think this is an example of mindless worship, that you cannot distinguish principle but rather say, oh, that was just a mistake of a foolish boy, he really didn't mean it. Well, this is interesting, since we have been hearing how Rossi chooses his words very carefully and methodically. But in this one instance, it was just a foolish idealistic mistake? Ah, you will stop at nothing to make this man a god figure and rationalize occasion when to call it for what it is, a compromise of principle to the highest bidder.
Well, well.
i think you're reading far to much into Talpa's comment. He didn't say that pointing out Rossi's vow was assigned "hater" status, he said Rossi making that statement gave fodder or food to "haters". I.e. it gives them evidence to support their arguments.
You're next paragraph tries to make something out of nothing. Rossi made a statement however many years ago. He has contradicted that statement in his actions now. Some people crucify him, some people love him and some people just don't care.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Rationalies.
Ah, the apologies continue. Of course you would agree there is nothing to see here. ...., when do you guys ever see anything wrong with the man? I would expect no less from you buddy. Now we just need Rossiofsky and inam to chime in, and where is Rob btw. Every single thing that has been shown to reflect upon his human character is always brushed under the rug.
1. Vows not to work for tobacco...oh wait, is that money in exchange for my word? (Gauloises, Camel, and now Marlboro, a trifecta of sorts.)
2. States he wants to finish career with Yamaha...oh wait, are they treating my teammate fairly? (I want to stay with Yamaha, which is also a little bit Italian. I would feel like a traitor if I acted any other way, because I feel very good with them." VR circa 2010)
3. Claims, 'this is racing', oh wait, is that Elias racing me hard? ("I'm not happy with Eiias today." boo hoo)
4. Says he doesn't make excuses, oh wait, let me threaten to leave so I can get Bstones. ("Alarm bells must have been ringing at Dorna...." JBurgess)
Shall I go on?
Joined Aug 2009
1K Posts | 328+
Vancouver
Attachments
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Joined Aug 2009
1K Posts | 328+
Vancouver
Honestly dude, I keep thinking this is an April fools joke in December.
It is also being reported that Paris Hilton will (contractually) attend at least 5 MotoGP races over the course of the year
She'll be in Indy for sure since it's the only 125cc stop in North America.
Insert Stirring .... emoticon here........cause thats all your doing, and your still a .....
Note on the previous page MickM says pretty much the same thing as I did, and you failed to react..........
I think his mistake was making the initial statement, never say never as they say; he may have been sincerely motivated at the time, but also probably didn't anticipate going to a cigarette sponsored team in the future.
Slipping are we Messiah? Or clutching at straws as usual.....
