i'm only sorry for Neil. his column in 'racer' this month pretty much sums it up - Neil will be an "ambulance chaser" for the coming season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Feb 12 2007, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i'm only sorry for Neil. his column in 'racer' this month pretty much sums it up - Neil will be an "ambulance chaser" for the coming season.
i agree, neil got the .... end of the stick,to be honest i realy dont think the foggy/hodgson partnership would have worked anyway,neil deserves better
i agree, neil got the .... end of the stick,to be honest i realy dont think the foggy/hodgson partnership would have worked anyway,neil deserves better
Well then, just wraps up his 'bad luck' over the past few years. I hoped to see him back on the bike this year...obviously not now. Good luck to him anyway.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 12 2007, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i agree, neil got the .... end of the stick
Well I have a question; maybe you boys can shed some light on it. I like Neil. Having said that, his WSBK title was Super Duper dominant (as Pete would say, he "destroyed" the competition.) For the first half of the season, I wondered if anybody else would win. As it turned out, almost nobody did. However, he was on clearly, and I don’t think it’s even debatable, that he was on the best package, maybe ever. The only guy that got a few wins was his teammate Xaus, and that was at the end of the season. So here is my question (let me qualify it before I do, that I respect his championship), yet, it was so commanding that I wonder if it would be fair to ask what would have been the result that year had he been on say, the Honda? What are your thoughts?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 13 2007, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>bad luck my ..., he has made some poor decisions.
Really, how so? (Keep in mind Ducati canned the AMA program, not Neil).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Feb 13 2007, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well then, just wraps up his 'bad luck' over the past few years.
Really, how so? Didn't he have the number one bike in WSBK (I would say not only in his team, but the entire grid)? And didn't Ducati throw everything they could at the AMA effort?
Well I have a question; maybe you boys can shed some light on it. I like Neil. Having said that, his WSBK title was Super Duper dominant (as Pete would say, he "destroyed" the competition.) For the first half of the season, I wondered if anybody else would win. As it turned out, almost nobody did. However, he was on clearly, and I don’t think it’s even debatable, that he was on the best package, maybe ever. The only guy that got a few wins was his teammate Xaus, and that was at the end of the season. So here is my question (let me qualify it before I do, that I respect his championship), yet, it was so commanding that I wonder if it would be fair to ask what would have been the result that year had he been on say, the Honda? What are your thoughts?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 13 2007, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>bad luck my ..., he has made some poor decisions.
Really, how so? (Keep in mind Ducati canned the AMA program, not Neil).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Feb 13 2007, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well then, just wraps up his 'bad luck' over the past few years.
Really, how so? Didn't he have the number one bike in WSBK (I would say not only in his team, but the entire grid)? And didn't Ducati throw everything they could at the AMA effort?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 14 2007, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really, how so? (Keep in mind Ducati canned the AMA program, not Neil).
For a start i think moving to the AMA was a mistake. I know he did it as a way to keep his foot in with the Ducati factory, but to try and learn a whole new series, and just to win a domestic championship, when the rules make it pretty tough for his bike to be competative. That seemed like a poor decision, especially considering that the AMA series doesn't offer too many people a world championship path. I guess i think he would have been better off getting back into world superbikes on a slightly lower bike, or going back to Britain, most of the mojor teams then would have been up for signing him, plus he already had experience and track knowledge.
As for this year, again he hung too closeley to ducati, then once that went wrong put all his hopes in Foggy. Maybe he really doesn't want to ride a japanease bike or something, but i think he hasn't played the field enough in order to get where he wants, and he seems totally unwilling to ride even a slightly uncompetative bike.
Regardless, i think his championship was well earned Its true that he and xaus had a better tire package from michelin and his aerodynamics made him pretty quick on the straights. But he rode with class throughout and did everything he needed to do. When it came to a fight he always played hard and fair. And thinking back, no other rider was really in a position to mount a challenge regardless of bike.
The 1000cc fours (Lavilla) were still air restricted, and other notable ducati riders were either too inexperienced(Toesland), to inconsistent(Xaus), or just not good enough (Walker). So i think the only way to take away from his worl championship would be to speculate that riders from other racing series could have beaten him, and to do that would be to redicule every world superbike champion ever because it is always the case.
For a start i think moving to the AMA was a mistake. I know he did it as a way to keep his foot in with the Ducati factory, but to try and learn a whole new series, and just to win a domestic championship, when the rules make it pretty tough for his bike to be competative. That seemed like a poor decision, especially considering that the AMA series doesn't offer too many people a world championship path. I guess i think he would have been better off getting back into world superbikes on a slightly lower bike, or going back to Britain, most of the mojor teams then would have been up for signing him, plus he already had experience and track knowledge.
As for this year, again he hung too closeley to ducati, then once that went wrong put all his hopes in Foggy. Maybe he really doesn't want to ride a japanease bike or something, but i think he hasn't played the field enough in order to get where he wants, and he seems totally unwilling to ride even a slightly uncompetative bike.
Regardless, i think his championship was well earned Its true that he and xaus had a better tire package from michelin and his aerodynamics made him pretty quick on the straights. But he rode with class throughout and did everything he needed to do. When it came to a fight he always played hard and fair. And thinking back, no other rider was really in a position to mount a challenge regardless of bike.
The 1000cc fours (Lavilla) were still air restricted, and other notable ducati riders were either too inexperienced(Toesland), to inconsistent(Xaus), or just not good enough (Walker). So i think the only way to take away from his worl championship would be to speculate that riders from other racing series could have beaten him, and to do that would be to redicule every world superbike champion ever because it is always the case.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 14 2007, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what would have been the result that year had he been on say, the Honda? What are your thoughts?
i would say the championship would have gone to xaus or the other Duke Factory rider.
no disrespect to neil but at the time (and even now) - i don't think Honda had a great deal of interest in WSB - even the BSB team (GO KIYO
) get more factory support that the likes of Ten Kate. As far as I can remember - Edwards was the last rider to get anywhere near the kind of support from Honda that Neil enjoyed from Ducati.
as far as neils lack of a ride - i would say Mr Tuxworth has some answering to do - I know this was covered in the 'What's Neil Doing ?' thread but as far as I'm concerned - It's the managers job to make sure the riders arse is on the best ride available.
In his column in 'Racer' this month, Neil hints at retirement so I hope that isn't the case and he's just a bit pissed off. He also still insists that Bayliss put the mockers on the WSB ride and that he was personally told by the Ducatista that as a result - the option was not available.
I find it hard to beleive that is the case but it's 100% what Neil thinks - I can feel another "war of words coming on"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 14 2007, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>or just not good enough (Walker).
wash your mouth out
i would say the championship would have gone to xaus or the other Duke Factory rider.
no disrespect to neil but at the time (and even now) - i don't think Honda had a great deal of interest in WSB - even the BSB team (GO KIYO
as far as neils lack of a ride - i would say Mr Tuxworth has some answering to do - I know this was covered in the 'What's Neil Doing ?' thread but as far as I'm concerned - It's the managers job to make sure the riders arse is on the best ride available.
In his column in 'Racer' this month, Neil hints at retirement so I hope that isn't the case and he's just a bit pissed off. He also still insists that Bayliss put the mockers on the WSB ride and that he was personally told by the Ducatista that as a result - the option was not available.
I find it hard to beleive that is the case but it's 100% what Neil thinks - I can feel another "war of words coming on"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 14 2007, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>or just not good enough (Walker).
wash your mouth out
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Feb 14 2007, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>wash your mouth out
Never!!! Wlaker has shown us so many times that he can be fast, that he is exciting to watch and that he is a solid rider. But when it comes down to it he just doesn't have the edge that it takes to be a champion. His lack of success in BSB is an excellent example of this, he just fell short everytime. HIs entire WSB career was too hopefull for his abilities, and now he is back where he started.
I really hope that with more wisdom and experience he can finally get something to his name this year, but i will need to see it to believe it.
Never!!! Wlaker has shown us so many times that he can be fast, that he is exciting to watch and that he is a solid rider. But when it comes down to it he just doesn't have the edge that it takes to be a champion. His lack of success in BSB is an excellent example of this, he just fell short everytime. HIs entire WSB career was too hopefull for his abilities, and now he is back where he started.
I really hope that with more wisdom and experience he can finally get something to his name this year, but i will need to see it to believe it.
well this year is his 1st year on a competitive bike since he left BSB so we'll see, won't we ?
i'll wager he takes the title this year.
i'll wager he takes the title this year.
Hmm, i really don't know what to expext from BSB this year. Walker and Kiyo look good for the title for sure, but i don't know how to place the ducatis and Byrne in the situation. Yamaha will obviosuly disapoint, and Rutter is past it. But i am a Haslam fan, so i am wanting him to get some wins in early and take it.
As for Walker, i feel he could have earnt more competative machinary had his performance warrented it. After 2003 one of the GSE racing boys got a works ride, and it was clearly the correct choice.
As for Walker, i feel he could have earnt more competative machinary had his performance warrented it. After 2003 one of the GSE racing boys got a works ride, and it was clearly the correct choice.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Feb 14 2007, 05:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i would say the championship would have gone to xaus or the other Duke Factory rider.
no disrespect to neil but at the time (and even now) - i don't think Honda had a great deal of interest in WSB - even the BSB team (GO KIYO
) get more factory support that the likes of Ten Kate. As far as I can remember - Edwards was the last rider to get anywhere near the kind of support from Honda that Neil enjoyed from Ducati.
Hi Locks, how you bee buddy?
Yeah, I would agree with you here. I mean, do you remember how his bike could just wait for a straight and pass at will? It was like his bike had and extra few cylinders. Like I said, I like Neil. And I am grateful to you Brits for lending him to us, where I grew to like him even more up close having the privilege of seeing him here in the US. But, if you ever see how the Suzukis are here in the AMA, you could appreciate how the Ducatis are in WSBK. That is to say, they simply are better stronger bikes no matter how talented the competition is. Ruben was the only other guy to sting together a few wins, and look what he was riding. Unlike when Bayliss won his first title, remember, Colin and Bostrom gave him a run for his money. I don't remeber for sure at the moment, but I think Bostrom had the same number of wins as Bayliss (6) (I'll ask Richo or I'll Google it to check later
). It just seemed there was more parity in the series. Anyway, I just wanted to get somebody else’s take on the season. It really is too bad that Neil doesn’t have a ride this season.
I disagree with Tom’s assessment that it was bad decisions though. I think coming to the AMA was not a bad decision because this was a challenge to him and Ducati was willing to throw everything possible at the program. They just couldn’t compete with the fours because of the rules in my opinion. But considering the underpowered and inexperience in the AMA, he was able to put in a few wins. Not to many WSBK guys from Europe can say that.
no disrespect to neil but at the time (and even now) - i don't think Honda had a great deal of interest in WSB - even the BSB team (GO KIYO
Hi Locks, how you bee buddy?
Yeah, I would agree with you here. I mean, do you remember how his bike could just wait for a straight and pass at will? It was like his bike had and extra few cylinders. Like I said, I like Neil. And I am grateful to you Brits for lending him to us, where I grew to like him even more up close having the privilege of seeing him here in the US. But, if you ever see how the Suzukis are here in the AMA, you could appreciate how the Ducatis are in WSBK. That is to say, they simply are better stronger bikes no matter how talented the competition is. Ruben was the only other guy to sting together a few wins, and look what he was riding. Unlike when Bayliss won his first title, remember, Colin and Bostrom gave him a run for his money. I don't remeber for sure at the moment, but I think Bostrom had the same number of wins as Bayliss (6) (I'll ask Richo or I'll Google it to check later
). It just seemed there was more parity in the series. Anyway, I just wanted to get somebody else’s take on the season. It really is too bad that Neil doesn’t have a ride this season. I disagree with Tom’s assessment that it was bad decisions though. I think coming to the AMA was not a bad decision because this was a challenge to him and Ducati was willing to throw everything possible at the program. They just couldn’t compete with the fours because of the rules in my opinion. But considering the underpowered and inexperience in the AMA, he was able to put in a few wins. Not to many WSBK guys from Europe can say that.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 15 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Locks, how you bee buddy?
Yeah, I would agree with you here. I mean, do you remember how his bike could just wait for a straight and pass at will? It was like his bike had and extra few cylinders. Like I said, I like Neil. And I am grateful to you Brits for lending him to us, where I grew to like him even more up close having the privilege of seeing him here in the US. But, if you ever see how the Suzukis are here in the AMA, you could appreciate how the Ducatis are in WSBK. That is to say, they simply are better stronger bikes no matter how talented the competition is. Ruben was the only other guy to sting together a few wins, and look what he was riding. Unlike when Bayliss won his first title, remember, Colin and Bostrom gave him a run for his money. I don't remeber for sure at the moment, but I think Bostrom had the same number of wins as Bayliss (6) (I'll ask Richo or I'll Google it to check later). It just seemed there was more parity in the series. Anyway, I just wanted to get somebody else’s take on the season. It really is too bad that Neil doesn’t have a ride this season.
I disagree with Tom’s assessment that it was bad decisions though. I think coming to the AMA was not a bad decision because this was a challenge to him and Ducati was willing to throw everything possible at the program. They just couldn’t compete with the fours because of the rules in my opinion. But considering the underpowered and inexperience in the AMA, he was able to put in a few wins. Not to many WSBK guys from Europe can say that.
I think Hodgeson has been a victim of the British post Foggy obsession with diesels. In the mid 90s, he was a promising GP rider, putting in good enough results on Niall Mackenzie's old RoC YZR500 for Roberts to give him a few races on a more competitive Yamaha. Sadly, he followed up with some crap years on the Kawasaki diesel, and then going back to BSB, where, he (just) took the title from Walker.
His title year in superbike was impressive, no doubts there. But I have to say, I would have liked to have seen him sticking on the 500s, instead of trying to "do a foggy" I'm not saying he would have been champion, (I dont believe he ever would have) but maybe sticking to one championship would have benefitted him. He fell into the whole jumping from series to series thing, and I dont think that helps anyone.
Pete
Yeah, I would agree with you here. I mean, do you remember how his bike could just wait for a straight and pass at will? It was like his bike had and extra few cylinders. Like I said, I like Neil. And I am grateful to you Brits for lending him to us, where I grew to like him even more up close having the privilege of seeing him here in the US. But, if you ever see how the Suzukis are here in the AMA, you could appreciate how the Ducatis are in WSBK. That is to say, they simply are better stronger bikes no matter how talented the competition is. Ruben was the only other guy to sting together a few wins, and look what he was riding. Unlike when Bayliss won his first title, remember, Colin and Bostrom gave him a run for his money. I don't remeber for sure at the moment, but I think Bostrom had the same number of wins as Bayliss (6) (I'll ask Richo or I'll Google it to check later
). It just seemed there was more parity in the series. Anyway, I just wanted to get somebody else’s take on the season. It really is too bad that Neil doesn’t have a ride this season. I disagree with Tom’s assessment that it was bad decisions though. I think coming to the AMA was not a bad decision because this was a challenge to him and Ducati was willing to throw everything possible at the program. They just couldn’t compete with the fours because of the rules in my opinion. But considering the underpowered and inexperience in the AMA, he was able to put in a few wins. Not to many WSBK guys from Europe can say that.
I think Hodgeson has been a victim of the British post Foggy obsession with diesels. In the mid 90s, he was a promising GP rider, putting in good enough results on Niall Mackenzie's old RoC YZR500 for Roberts to give him a few races on a more competitive Yamaha. Sadly, he followed up with some crap years on the Kawasaki diesel, and then going back to BSB, where, he (just) took the title from Walker.
His title year in superbike was impressive, no doubts there. But I have to say, I would have liked to have seen him sticking on the 500s, instead of trying to "do a foggy" I'm not saying he would have been champion, (I dont believe he ever would have) but maybe sticking to one championship would have benefitted him. He fell into the whole jumping from series to series thing, and I dont think that helps anyone.
Pete
I agree, Hodgeson should have decided where he was gonna ride and stuck with it, i believe he could have been more successful than he has been. Instead of this he has followed Ducati (in more recent years) into whichever series they have stuck him and had almost no success. i think he should have either stuck with gp's in the early days or stuck to WSBK a few years ago. All this shifting will get him nowhere.
I agree that switching to AMA was a new and interesting challange, and thats fine had it been an idea for the twighlight of his career, to just tick off another domestic series. But everybody knows that AMA racing doesn't have a great window too world superbikes, so in light of the fact that he wanted to come back into the workd series i think seperating himself from europe was a terrible idea.
I agree that switching to AMA was a new and interesting challange, and thats fine had it been an idea for the twighlight of his career, to just tick off another domestic series. But everybody knows that AMA racing doesn't have a great window too world superbikes, so in light of the fact that he wanted to come back into the workd series i think seperating himself from europe was a terrible idea.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 15 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Locks, how you bee buddy?
I'm good matey - had the builders in so my house is frankly a bit of a dump
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 15 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if you ever see how the Suzukis are here in the AMA, you could appreciate how the Ducatis are in WSBK. That is to say, they simply are better stronger bikes no matter how talented the competition is.
as you said, it's only the tuning regulations that are holding the ducati back - you don't have to go back very far in any series to find where Suzuki have dominated but, given the kind of freedom Duke enjoy in BSB/WSB in AMA i rekon they would not only be on the pace but could be pushing young ben for the title
that said, the WSB/BSB Ducati's (999's) are now as fast as they will ever be and the compeition is rapidly catching up (despite Ducati's massive financial input and hence their push for the 1200 rule).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 15 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It really is too bad that Neil doesn’t have a ride this season......I disagree with Tom’s assessment that it was bad decisions coming to the AMA was not a bad decision because this was a challenge to him and Ducati was willing to throw everything possible at the program. They just couldn’t compete with the fours because of the rules
Exact-a-mundo. But, Neils loyalty to Ducati has been his un-doing in the end - it left him with no-where to turn (at least for a competitive ride) bar Foggys pipe dream which as we all suspected, is exactly what it was. I'm sure Neil will be at the top of a lot of team managers lists should their 1st choice rider be injured - and lets face it - that happens a lot.
I'm good matey - had the builders in so my house is frankly a bit of a dump
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 15 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if you ever see how the Suzukis are here in the AMA, you could appreciate how the Ducatis are in WSBK. That is to say, they simply are better stronger bikes no matter how talented the competition is.
as you said, it's only the tuning regulations that are holding the ducati back - you don't have to go back very far in any series to find where Suzuki have dominated but, given the kind of freedom Duke enjoy in BSB/WSB in AMA i rekon they would not only be on the pace but could be pushing young ben for the title
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 15 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It really is too bad that Neil doesn’t have a ride this season......I disagree with Tom’s assessment that it was bad decisions coming to the AMA was not a bad decision because this was a challenge to him and Ducati was willing to throw everything possible at the program. They just couldn’t compete with the fours because of the rules
Exact-a-mundo. But, Neils loyalty to Ducati has been his un-doing in the end - it left him with no-where to turn (at least for a competitive ride) bar Foggys pipe dream which as we all suspected, is exactly what it was. I'm sure Neil will be at the top of a lot of team managers lists should their 1st choice rider be injured - and lets face it - that happens a lot.
