motogp test sepang.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 7 2009, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i really think that hayden can take another second off his time if they can stop the bike pumping, i noticed it was the same for kalio to on the same corner, stoner looks pretty settled and was looking alot smoother than the others, i dont think its the riders they just need to setup up the bike correctly to suit there style like stoner has.

I don't think the bike can be setup for Hayden, given the level of traction control Ducati run.

For some time now, Hayden's style has been to throw the bike into the turn (relatively sloppily) then adjust the bike with the throttle. It worked fine in the 990 days, but it hasn't produced much during the 800 era.

If you watch the motogp.com video, immediately after the major "pumping", Hayden brakes, turns in smoothly and then appears to coast through the turn then power out well after he had passed the apex. If you turn the volume up, you will hear the Ducati TC cut power so severely, it sounds as if Hayden has the throttle off.

Imo, when Hayden remembers how to adjust the attitude of the bike with the rear brake (like he used to) he will be able to pick the bike up and stop TC from cutting so much power.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarmstrong1029 @ Feb 8 2009, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the ducati has always been a pissed off machine but to see hayden coming out of the corner looking like hes riding a pogo stick shows that the setup on the bike is way off, i dont know if hayden has been trying to set the bike up completely from his feel or if they have been using stoners data, but they need to find a central point to give him a better starting point coming into these tests. correct me if im wrong but they only have 9 more days on the bike before the first race weekend. i personally wanna see how hayden does in Qatar, always seems to be a good track for ducati (stoner at least)

Well its going to be up to only one person to set it up!, and thats Hayden.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 8 2009, 01:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well its going to be up to only one person to set it up!, and thats Hayden.


Barry you blow my mind

hayden already is addapting 10 times as good as melandri ^^

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slide @ Feb 8 2009, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hayden already is addapting 10 times as good as melandri ^^
I like your positiveness Slide. I'm as diehard Hayden fan as they get, and I'm not that cheerful about the first test. It was going good until Kalio showed his major improvement, then Hayden's improvement was brought down in perspective. Comparing him to Melandri is now moot IMHO. Its the next best Ducati other than Stoner that is the new standard. And at the moment, it pains me to say, he's not quite cutting it. But I love the guy and I'm rooting for him all the way.

Disclaimer: Dejected...somebody say something to make me feel better, been up all night drinking and making havoc and general recklessness...very hungover ATM.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarmstrong1029 @ Feb 7 2009, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the ducati has always been a pissed off machine but to see hayden coming out of the corner looking like hes riding a pogo stick shows that the setup on the bike is way off, i dont know if hayden has been trying to set the bike up completely from his feel or if they have been using stoners data, but they need to find a central point to give him a better starting point coming into these tests. correct me if im wrong but they only have 9 more days on the bike before the first race weekend. i personally wanna see how hayden does in Qatar, always seems to be a good track for ducati (stoner at least)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nicky Hayden, day 1)<div class='quotemain'>We started out with the same set-up as Jerez, because after two months without riding it was better to go with something we knew. We haven't made massive changes over the course of the day, mainly because before we do that I need to pick up my own pace. The bike feels good on the brakes and it is stable and precise in the fast corners. I'm struggling a bit on corner exit though because it still tends to pump quite a lot and I'm not used to that yet.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"Obviously I'm not happy with my lap times, I was expecting more from myself, but I have to stay positive," said Hayden.

"I've improved my lap times every day and we have gathered a lot of data to work from in the next test.

"The fact Casey is already so fast means that the bike has the potential - it can only be a good thing that he is going so quick. The team is working hard and they are just as determined as I am to get the results, so that's a good thing.

"I wasn't too bad in the first two sectors but I was losing too much in T3 and T4, where the problem I'm having with the bike being unstable and unpredictable on the exit was the worst."He's still acclimating to the bike. That means a certain amount of setting everything up is just plain old getting faster with what he has and adapting the rider more than adapting the bike. I'm not sure how much he wants to move away from Stoner's sort of setup before he's either faster or no longer improving. For a bike that pretty much only one guy has been fast on, you want to emulate the guy who's fast on it as much as possible, at least until you're up to speed.

It's not Ducati who's fast at Qatar, it's Stoner. He was on pole there as a rookie. He won there on a 250as well. Xaus and Capirex have podiumed there on Ducs, but mostly it's a track that Stoner's been fast on. Hayden's got as many podiums (and victories) there as all other Ducati riders combined.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 8 2009, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I like your positiveness Slide. I'm as diehard Hayden fan as they get, and I'm not that cheerful about the first test. It was going good until Kalio showed his major improvement, then Hayden's improvement was brought down in perspective. Comparing him to Melandri is now moot IMHO. Its the next best Ducati other than Stoner that is the new standard. And at the moment, it pains me to say, he's not quite cutting it. But I love the guy and I'm rooting for him all the way.

Disclaimer: Dejected...somebody say something to make me feel better, been up all night drinking and making havoc and general recklessness...very hungover ATM.


The problem is Jumkie, IMO, you are expecting too much of the wrong things too fast. The guy is just getting started. He will take a few races to really put the settings where he needs them. He has a fantastic team behind him that want him to be there so be patient man...this is the advice from the king of patience...hair of the dog! Just not too much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 8 2009, 04:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Where were you when Stoner was saying they are constantly fighting it.?

But seriously ....... its a good sign ....... Melandri and Elias and Guinters got nowhere near the mystical "pumping" Stoner used to go on about ........ Hayden is at least pushing the thing, and found the pumping

Don't panic yet.
Exactly,i think Hayden and his technicians will find a solution.Remember Loris 06 at Brno just as an example,i know it was a 990 but the Ducati has seemed to do this for ages.Anyway,at practises it was rodeo more or less and then smooth in warmup and in the race that he won,Loris said afterwards that they changed the set up radically for the race,what ever that meant.They have seen this before and fixed it,and it's just about the same team members since then.I think it is a really good sign actually that Hayden sais this is the biggest problem.My exeptionally unprofessional guess is that they aven't had time to set up the ultimate mapping and TC for Hayden yet,but i think they will.

Jumkie I forgot to mention that while I hope Hayden melds with the Ducati I also hope he knows he will be behind the Suzuki's all year long...so, IT IS ON!!!

Don't know if that helps.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 8 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie I forgot to mention that while I hope Hayden melds with the Ducati I also hope he knows he will be behind the Suzuki's all year long...so, IT IS ON!!!

Don't know if that helps.

^Great youtube upload (for as long as it is there).

Now I see very clearly the problems Nicky is having. Some riders are also still lacking confidence judging by the vid. Stoner, Rossi and Capirossi all looked just as fast as their times implied though.

Thank you for the clip!
I agree with Wander on coments,it's probarbly very dificult to do good laptimes with all that moving around.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Feb 8 2009, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Exactly,i think Hayden and his technicians will find a solution.Remember Loris 06 at Brno just as an example,i know it was a 990 but the Ducati has seemed to do this for ages.Anyway,at practises it was rodeo more or less and then smooth in warmup and in the race that he won,Loris said afterwards that they changed the set up radically for the race,what ever that meant.They have seen this before and fixed it,and it's just about the same team members since then.I think it is a really good sign actually that Hayden sais this is the biggest problem.My exeptionally unprofessional guess is that they aven't had time to set up the ultimate mapping and TC for Hayden yet,but i think they will.

I disagree that the bike has been like this all the time. If you look at the first glimpse we get of hayden the whole bike is fishtailing like a rubber cow from the '80's. I've never seen any Ducati doing that ever. What we've often seen with Capirossi is a very nervous rear stepping out at the exit but that's not such a big deal.
It's hopfully a settings thing and not a frame that flex too much with a havier rider. It's also a rider who want's to control the bike and not riding with it. I mean, the worst thing you can do with a wobbeling bike is often to try to controll it, as your input will more likely contribute to the wobble rather than stop it. If the frame is on the soft side they might need to reenforce it quite a bit for Hayden. In kilos the difference isn't that much but in teh form of input to the bike it can be quite a lot when you are bounced arond on top of the bike. F = ma

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 8 2009, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The problem is Jumkie, IMO, you are expecting too much of the wrong things too fast. The guy is just getting started. He will take a few races to really put the settings where he needs them. He has a fantastic team behind him that want him to be there so be patient man...this is the advice from the king of patience...hair of the dog! Just not too much.
Yeah i think your right. Considering how difficult other riders have found the duc to ride i dont think 1.454 sec's off stoner pace with all his experience on the bike is that bad at all.


hair of the dog = good advice

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 9 2009, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I disagree that the bike has been like this all the time. If you look at the first glimpse we get of hayden the whole bike is fishtailing like a rubber cow from the '80's. I've never seen any Ducati doing that ever. What we've often seen with Capirossi is a very nervous rear stepping out at the exit but that's not such a big deal.
It's hopfully a settings thing and not a frame that flex too much with a havier rider. It's also a rider who want's to control the bike and not riding with it. I mean, the worst thing you can do with a wobbeling bike is often to try to controll it, as your input will more likely contribute to the wobble rather than stop it. If the frame is on the soft side they might need to reenforce it quite a bit for Hayden. In kilos the difference isn't that much but in teh form of input to the bike it can be quite a lot when you are bounced arond on top of the bike. F = ma
Well,i should have made clear the whole post was an unprofessional guess.I haven't seen more than a few seconds of Hayden but i have watched Capirossi to death.I meant that Hayden is pushing the Duc.,provoking it,and that's a good sign comared to Melandri for instance.And another positive thing is that Hayden hasn't said one bad word about easy or hard to stear/handle,which seemed to be the biggest problem with the 800 for Capirossi.I assumed that it was the pumping Stoner was talking about before Catalunya which seemed to be the same thing as Duc. had in 06 but i could be way off,i don't know.I have no idea if Hayden's problems are related to the frame/chassi set up or the electronics though.
Anyway i think the team and Hayden will sort it out.
An other guess is that nor Hayden or the team has had enough time on track to see Haydens limits on the bike and how he can maximise his set up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 8 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie I forgot to mention that while I hope Hayden melds with the Ducati I also hope he knows he will be behind the Suzuki's all year long...so, IT IS ON!!!

Don't know if that helps.
Kick a man when he down why don't you.

I actually feel much better. I slept in. Went to Cali Kid's house to talk racing and kick around some ideas. Then went to eat carne asada tacos.

Hey #46, you are the MVP of this thread man. Thanks for the pics and now the vid.

Anders & Babel, those were good posts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 8 2009, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hair of the dog = good advice
What does this mean? Are you calling me a dog you .......?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 9 2009, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kick a man when he down why don't you.

I actually feel much better. I slept in. Went to Cali Kid's house to talk racing and kick around some ideas. Then went to eat carne asada tacos.

Hey #46, you are the MVP of this thread man. Thanks for the pics and now the vid.

Anders & Babel, those were good posts.
Thanks Jum!

hahhaa excuses excuses already fo hayden. i told ya all he'll be a miserable failure on the ducati