MotoGP New rules 2013. One bike + 5 engines max & Less mechanics

MotoGP New rules for 2013. One bike + 5 engines max & Less mechanics



here you are PPL...PMSL ROFL



Dorna Sports CEO Carmelo Ezpeleta explained that ongoing discussions started at the end of last season and could lead to various decisions in an upcoming meeting to be held in Qatar, ahead of the first Grand Prix of the 2012 season.

"During the past few meetings we've been discussing the philosophy of the Championship, how to improve it in an economic sense and also thinking about the spectacle," said Ezpeleta. "We've put forward a proposal to the manufacturers, some ideas were accepted and others were not, and we now have to study their ideas so that when we sit down again in Qatar we can agree on how to make the Championship better, but also in a manner which is economically viable."

"We've been discussing a number of ideas to reduce costs, such as having a single bike per rider as in Moto2 and Moto3, limiting the number of mechanics per rider, setting a price cap on bikes



MORE

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Dorna+Sports+SL+and+MSMA+discuss+further+MotoGP+cost+reductions

Go Mental! Opening up revenues is a panacea that MGP should be feverishly perusing - much more so than cost reduction.





Chant???



Submitted by Mental Anarchist on Sun, 2012-03-25 00:02.



All well and good in theory Bricktop but in reality your scenario forgets that motorbike racing is about the rider. In the 990 era the grid had a bunch of guys that were all about the same skill level and then one guy who was head and shoulders above the them. That one guy created a show by riding at 8/10's until 3 or 4 laps to go and then he would ride at 10/10's and win. Exciting for those who didn't understand that that is what was happening but contrived for those that did understand it.

In this current era there are 3 or 4 guys who are in a completely different skill level class to the rest. These guys need to push 10/10's all race to beat each other and the rest of the field gets left way way behind. This has almost NOTHING to do with the bikes and the same thing would happen if you sent the field out on stock CBR1000's.

I say MotoGP is about the fast bikes going full pace for an entire race. That is why it is the pinnacle. There are other series that are about parity and big groups of riders of similar skill level banging fairings. Why there is a need to make MotoGP just another of these is beyond me. I don't want to watch a MotoGP that is dumbed down so lesser riders can be competitive.

Lin Jarvis has the right idea and it is one of have talked about over and over again and that is increasing revenues by broadening the countries raced in and the nationality of riders. Once MotoGP returns to earned seats rather than bought seats than maybe we will have a field of riders that can ride their way to the front instead of be carried to the front on the back of the promoter who should be concentrating on building the series rather than ruining it.

In response to a responder to Kropo's excellent comments here.

So here we go with more rules thanks to the MSMA, and they are just now getting into talks about making the second tier customer bikes more affordable.

For the record I personally think what you quoting as mental saying is a bunch of ........ to hype Casey and his run away victories. For one Rossi has never been a fast guy who would dominate all the practice and qually sessions, not when he was clearly the best on the grid and not when the other riders started to get better. His best always came out in competition. I have no clue why Casey's fans feel a need to say that was the case in an attempt to defend the run away victories when we've had plenty of run away victories in every era of GP, it's a bunch of ......... Rossi isn't just famous for winning but for doing it on the brakes, we're in a different time of racing now when we don't have passing on the brakes like we used to, now the racing is about all out speed with less passing. For all the insecure Casey fans, don't worry, Rossi will be the bench mark for a while to come but people know it takes just as much heart and guts to the ride the bike all out as does to have the bigger set of balls in the braking zones. Go get a motogp video pass and you can clearly see Rossi=demon on the brakes while Casey= demon on the gas. The racing is just different, the younger generation will probably be more in tune to the new ways and us older guys will want to see passing on the brakes as it was done in the old days but no matter what you like, you shouldn't be making up ......... to defend your rider. If the Yam is up to spec it's going to come down to old school racing, good luck.

Hmmm... Mental's been very consistent views on the economy of MGP. I tend to agree with Mental and Jarvis in believing the future of MGP lies outside of Europe.

I'm talking about his analysis of one rider going 10/10 for an entire race and the other not doing that, all one has to do is go look at the lap times to see that that statement is complete .........

hawkdriver said:

So here we go with more rules thanks to the MSMA, and they are just now getting into talks about making the second tier customer bikes more affordable.

For the record I personally think what you quoting as mental saying is a bunch of ........ to hype Casey and his run away victories. For one Rossi has never been a fast guy who would dominate all the practice and qually sessions, not when he was clearly the best on the grid and not when the other riders started to get better. His best always came out in competition. I have no clue why Casey's fans feel a need to say that was the case in an attempt to defend the run away victories when we've had plenty of run away victories in every era of GP, it's a bunch of ......... Rossi isn't just famous for winning but for doing it on the brakes, we're in a different time of racing now when we don't have passing on the brakes like we used to, now the racing is about all out speed with less passing. For all the insecure Casey fans, don't worry, Rossi will be the bench mark for a while to come but people know it takes just as much heart and guts to the ride the bike all out as does to have the bigger set of balls in the braking zones. Go get a motogp video pass and you can clearly see Rossi=demon on the brakes while Casey= demon on the gas. The racing is just different, the younger generation will probably be more in tune to the new ways and us older guys will want to see passing on the brakes as it was done in the old days but no matter what you like, you shouldn't be making up ......... to defend your rider. If the Yam is up to spec it's going to come down to old school racing, good luck.

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Anyone have a mirror



What a complete and utter load of Bopper fantasy.

DORNA is a true monopoly and they sure do act like it, blocking everything they can then crying the cost is too high. Explains why a sport with a worldwide massive audience potential cannot raise revenue. Cant even find 3-4 million?



Our tiny little local NRL rugby legaue competition has clubs spending 5 million a year just on players, so the whole season with support staff and operational expenses it would probably be $10 million a season total costs, yet they find the money even with a much lower audience. 16 clubs total cost $160 million. And they have to compete against AFL, theres another $160 million, and Rugby super 14. They all find sponsors, they all grow the sport, all increase the revenue. Every game promoted and televised, endless talk 24 hours coverage going on. No wonder they get sponsors. DORNA are in the dark ages.



Now you want to get serious look at US Superbowl and English premier league money, I bet they would be laughing their ..... off at DORNA.

Mick D said:

Hmmm... Mental's been very consistent views on the economy of MGP. I tend to agree with Mental and Jarvis in believing the future of MGP lies outside of Europe.

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Yep. Example.http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/03/17/shuhei_nakamoto_interview_on_crt_spec_ec.html

Comments





Cutting Costs? What about revenue?



Submitted by Mental Anarchist on Sat, 2012-03-17 21:18.



David,

All we hear about is cutting costs, cutting costs, cutting costs. Why is know one talking about increasing revenues?

Surely there are opportunities to increase revenues. How many countries currently show MotoGP on free to air TV? Couldn't Dorna off low rates to open new markets? I have never heard an official verbal promotion of a Sponsor in MotoGP by riders, teams or Ezpeleta.

When will this obsession with cutting costs end? When they are riding off the shelf 1000's? The past decade or more the business world has been the same....cut costs! In my pinion it is just lazy. The real skill in business and promoting is to increase sales, increase revenues. A quality sales and marketing strategy does not require the BEST product. Just about every leader in every market segment got there without the best product. Once again it is just lazy blaming the quality of racing for poor revenues. What is unforgivable is that Dorna itself talks down its own product.

Maybe if quality journalists such as yourself started asking questions of the people inside MotoGP what they are doing to promote the sport and increase its growth then perhaps they may start doing something about it rather than engaging in the dismantling of the sport that we are now seeing.

As has been pointed out you seem to be trying to "hype" the manner in which rossi won in his heyday, and there has been far more criticism of stoner for winning from in front than there has been hyping of him for doing so.



You win any way you can, and rossi was not averse to running away with it if he could in the 800 formula. As you correctly point out the nature of the racing was different in the 800 formula, with tyres lasting to the end of the race most of the time for many of the riders, and the "tyranny of the ideal lap" as lex puts it given the fuel economy basis of the formula militating against differing race strategies. Unfortunately I don't think the new formula (or the new factory prototype formula anyway) will be much different, even in terms of allowing mutiple lines within a lap or corner let alone allowing multiple race strategies.



On current evidence it would seem justified to "hype" stoner for being able to win on the ducati at all particularly in the later seasons rather than criticising him for the manner in which he did. I believe he literally had no choice, as the bike needed to be ridden at 10 tenths (or 11 tenths) to work at all, particularly to keep enough heat in the front tyre, and would not turn mid corner for him or anyone else.

As far as I am concerned with the rules proposals, I don't really care about it being 6 or 5 engines. And as far as less mechanics are concerned..this surely has some positives and negatives, but I don't think the 'show' would suffer. Not sure if it would really cut costs either. But the one bike rule would surely suck. I mean, in the smaller categories, it might be not be as important, but explaining to someone who has paid loads of money for a track ticket (or stupid video pass, whatever) that their favored rider will simply not make the grid because he slipped in warm up and the bike couldn't be fixed in time, that would be just ridiculous. Flag-to-flag racing, which really makes for great excitement, would be a thing of the past, too. And maybe there's also a safety aspect in that, namely that once a team is deprived of fielding a spare bike, they will have to fix the one bike in a hurry, and make the grid with the one bike they are allowed to, even if it might not be in the state for racing. So I definitely oppose that one.

Rules are rules.



Already I have formulated a plan to have 3 more "hospitality" folk in the Stoner garage.



They'll come out with a rule to counter it of course ......... but my "hospitality folk" will carry donuts not tools.



5 or 6 engines ......... meh....... Stoner doesn't need an engine

sewarion said:

As far as I am concerned with the rules proposals, I don't really care about it being 6 or 5 engines. And as far as less mechanics are concerned..this surely has some positives and negatives, but I don't think the 'show' would suffer. Not sure if it would really cut costs either. But the one bike rule would surely suck. I mean, in the smaller categories, it might be not be as important, but explaining to someone who has paid loads of money for a track ticket (or stupid video pass, whatever) that their favored rider will simply not make the grid because he slipped in warm up and the bike couldn't be fixed in time, that would be just ridiculous. Flag-to-flag racing, which really makes for great excitement, would be a thing of the past, too. And maybe there's also a safety aspect in that, namely that once a team is deprived of fielding a spare bike, they will have to fix the one bike in a hurry, and make the grid with the one bike they are allowed to, even if it might not be in the state for racing. So I definitely oppose that one.

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You make some valid points.



Like all the previous rule changes fiddling about at the edges, the question is whether they will improve the racing or save money; I doubt either will be achieved. The factory teams will always find an advantage, and spend money doing so.



My hope for CRT is that it breaks the cartel and makes it easier for new manufacturers to join the series, something in which honda and yamaha have not had much interest. If they can get say aprilia and bmw in, and perhaps get suzuki back, probably by restricting the more expensive technology, then they need to stabilise the rules for some time, as constant rule changes are the most expensive thing of all.

hawkdriver said:

I'm talking about his analysis of one rider going 10/10 for an entire race and the other not doing that, all one has to do is go look at the lap times to see that that statement is complete .........

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What he clearly said was in the 990 era Rossi could often ride at 8/10 and crank it up to 10/10 to win. In the 800 era there are 3-4 guys (not one) who could win and need to ride at 10/10 to win. Nothing much new or controversial in that statement.

michaelm said:

My hope for CRT is that it breaks the cartel and makes it easier for new manufacturers to join the series, something in which honda and yamaha have not had much interest. If they can get say aprilia and bmw in, and perhaps get suzuki back, probably by restricting the more expensive technology, then they need to stabilise the rules for some time, as constant rule changes are the most expensive thing of all.

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My hope as well; although, rumors have been circulating in cyberspace that the MSMA are tired of satellite bikes, and they are interested in finding new factories. Good luck. Anyone want to spend $30M to be Honda's & Yamaha's punching bag? BMW are probably the only factory the financial might to take the fight to Honda.

Mick D said:

What he clearly said was in the 990 era Rossi could often ride at 8/10 and crank it up to 10/10 to win. In the 800 era there are 3-4 guys (not one) who could win and need to ride at 10/10 to win. Nothing much new or controversial in that statement.

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They both had to ride full bore at some point, the reason they do it now and as Michaelm said with Rossi doing it during the 800 era is because of the electronics. The riders have to keep the bike in a certain performance envelope. Either way it's very easy to go look at lap times and see that when CS does pull away he doesn't maintain that pace for an entire race. It would be stupid to ride the ragged edge for an entire race and he doesn't do that, go look at his lap times, they tell the true story. When I say the racing is boring when he does that, all of his boppers don't need to feel personally insulted, like I said different times and strategies.

If Rossi would have won every race of the 990 era then the 3-4 guys bit would be more believable, where were these 3-4 guys last season when CS won how many races? The new CS era is just like the old VR era they dominated the field and won the majority of the races in each of their championship seasons, the 3-4 guys took how many wins each?

Mick D said:

What he clearly said was in the 990 era Rossi could often ride at 8/10 and crank it up to 10/10 to win. In the 800 era there are 3-4 guys (not one) who could win and need to ride at 10/10 to win. Nothing much new or controversial in that statement.

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Maybe we should ask Rossi, for he is the only one who is qualified to comment, and please Mick its bad enough we have to read Mentals inept neo boner rantings here let alone you cutting and pasting his tripe from other places

MickD,

I have been consistently championing the need to increase revenues for some time. I appreciate that you have noticed. Your take on my referencing is exactly how I meant it to be also.



It is a shame that some posters due to their own insecurities need to put my comments down to inept rantings and Stoner appreciation. How ever I find it difficult to connect the philosophy of increasing revenues as opposed to cutting costs as some Stoner conspiracy.



I feel somewhat justified in my little crusade to raise the awareness of the focus of Dorna and media being cost cutting rather than the growing the sport now that the likes of Lin Jarvis are also beginning to champion the same cause and Krop has started to include this in his most recent articles. I would not be so arrogant to say that these esteemed folks have taken their cues from me but it does show I have been on the right track.



If you take the time as you clearly have to read the comments from punters on Krops site you will see some really solid ideas on how to go about growing the sport. One particular comment was so good the David tweeted a link to it to all his followers.



Rather than rip into the messenger as some choose to I suggest it would be wise for us punters to sing these ideas from the roof top of our keyboards because the salvation of MotoGP is not in cost cutting, it must surely be found in growth, expansion and advancement of the motorcycle, the markets and the communication/promotion of our much loved sport.

, classic talpa

Dennis Noyes summary full story on the link below



The most important news from the IRTA tests in Jerez came from the discussions between Dorna and the Motorcycle Sports Manufacturers Association (MSMA) behind closed doors.



Two facts stand out above all others: Dorna is not backing down regarding the RPM limit but Dorna is backing down from imposing a standard ECU. Furthermore, the RPM limit will not be, as erroneously reported in many other media outlets, at 16,000 RPM, but at a much lower and more logical 14,500 to 15,000 RPM.



These are the ideas currently under discussion:



14,500 To 15,000 RPM Limit



A 1000cc engine with an 81mm bore and a 48.5mm stroke turning 15,000 RPM would produce a mean piston speed of 24.25 meters/second, nothing "out of this world," but enough to provide big, usable power. As we have seen with Moto2 bikes, making around 120-horsepower but with prototype frames, pure power is not what distinguishes GP prototypes. In fact six of the MotoGP CRT bikes at Jerez turned slower lap times than the best of the Moto2s (1'41.9). A 230-240 horsepower 1000cc engine would have ample power and beefy torque, but would not push MotoGP much beyond the current 205-210mph speeds reached on the fastest GP straights.



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Five Engines Per Season For Factory Bikes



As of 2013, the factory level MotoGP bikes will be limited to five engines per season per rider rather than six. CRT machines will continue to be allowed twelve engines (or engine rebuilds). Fuel capacity will remain unchanged with 21 liters for factory bikes and 23 for CRTs.



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One Bike Per Rider In 2013



As in Moto2 and Moto3, there would be only one complete bike per rider in MotoGP with teams carrying spares to rebuild after crashes, but without a second bike standing by in the garage.



This presents a problem in the rain. Under current rules, riders can come in when rain flags are shown and change motorcycles. Being limited to a single bike per rider would mean that wheels would have to be changed. If carbon brakes were used, these changes would require fitting new pads, making it a lengthy process. And even if steel discs were used, the teams would find themselves needing to use endurance racing equipment and skills.



One proposal is to establish a minimum time in the pits at around two minutes



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Steel Brakes Or Cheaper Carbon Brakes



Dorna, after consultations with various technicians, has proposed a change from carbon brakes to metallic as a cost saving move



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Factory Opposition To Standard ECU Is Strong And Unified



Dorna’s suggestion of using a standard ECU (following AMA guidelines rather than banning traction control and other electronic strategies as in the BSB) is so strongly opposed by factories



http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-big-changes-beyond-2012/P1

i'm in favor of every rule change that fills up the grid and makes new and smaller teams competitive against the hondas and yamahahs but 14.500rpm sounds a bit low,thats almost what a street bike can do. i don't care very much about the whole prototype aspect in general but the engines do need to be something special

stupid 4 strokes



steel brakes sounds good, longer braking zones are needed for better racing in my opinion



why no ban on slipper clutches?