motogp jerez test

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Mar 31 2009, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Well that was kinda my point. Those two went at each other and threw punchs like a lot of "old school" guys did

Casey would rather have a big sob with the camerman and not shake hands like a spoiled little girl, ahhhh poor baby

I guess Rossi is king of alot of things then most notably Motogp style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif


Well the usual Laguna stuff comes up every time someone wants to bag Stoner for his 'response' to the race and whilst I am sure to be bagged for it, what BM was saying is definitely and essentially correct in that many of the old school riders did indeed whinge, ....., whine and moan in interviews about their counterparts. The difference being that none of their counterparts had the following of a Rossi and that these guys played the game hard whereas of late (the last few years) the general public has seen very little of this play in the media.

There is of course teh infamous Doohan vs Criville episode after Eastern Creek but IMO that was less of an interview as such and more of a situational good fortune that a microphone was present.

But there have been less than complimentary outbursts by Rainey, Schwants, Lawson, Mamola, Gardner, Doohan etc about various riders over the years (Michael Rudroff anyone) and occasionally they whinged about each other.



As for the old mind games argument, well I do believe that CS does get into Rossi's head but not in the manner that many would say are mind games or that many attribute to VR (and personally I think CS is the same with VR).

Instead I do believe that CS gets VR thinking more about what is required and how he (VR) will race CS as it has been al ong time since VR has had a consistent competitor in terms of outright speed. CS on the other hand wants to be and beat VR as he seems him as the demigod of the sport and knows that to be the best, he must beat the one deemed the best which is of course VR.

I do not go for the 'mind fark' in terms that one out-psyches the other to such that they become a quibbling mess. Certainly each has had moments where the other has been concerned about them, but IMO both of these guys are the strongest mentally on the grid which is what makes their battle so damn enticing as each wants to beat the other so damn bad.






Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 31 2009, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>DAM i was just watching some footage of kalio @ motogp.com and the duc looks very smooth for him and i believe he can still push it harder as it doesnt look on the limit.

look at his body positioning...hmmmm has he been learning some tricks from watching stoner?

he looked very comfortable on the footage i seen.

Someone mentioned earlier that he thought that Kallio had a similiar riding positioning to Stoner's so I asked Kallio about it in his website and he just pretty much said that they do have some things in common with the positioning, but that some things are still different.

But apparently it's more than one guy who has noticed the similiarity so maybe there's something behind it.

From Gaz:<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Havent seen the footage so can't judge for myself but if what you say is indeed correct, could it be that the Ducati works for recent 250cc riders and not those who have had to already change their riding styles for the bigger bikes?

Yes, I realise that Stoner had a full season on the big bikes beforet he Ducati but as many want to remind, whilst he was blindingly fast he was also gravel rashed repeatedly and again, as often remined it did not change his approach to 2007 where he was all or nothing. So, with Kallio a recent 250cc rider is it possible that the Ducati is more like a two-smoke 250 in how it has to be ridden (electonics aside).

Well, that's an interesting theory and it fits in how Kallio said something about the Ducati not being that different compared to the 250cc bike. But could a 800cc Ducati really act so close the same as a 250cc??

I just don't know about that. But I am pretty sure that it has a lot to do with the riding style and possibly body positioning. Somehow this didn't work at all for Melandri while it works perfect for Stoner and seems to work well for Kallio so far.

I know it's been talked A LOT already, but this thing with Stoner vs other Ducati riders is still a bit of a mystery really.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Apr 1 2009, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well the usual Laguna stuff comes up every time someone wants to bag Stoner for his 'response' to the race and whilst I am sure to be bagged for it, what BM was saying is definitely and essentially correct in that many of the old school riders did indeed whinge, ....., whine and moan in interviews about their counterparts. The difference being that none of their counterparts had the following of a Rossi and that these guys played the game hard whereas of late (the last few years) the general public has seen very little of this play in the media.

There is of course teh infamous Doohan vs Criville episode after Eastern Creek but IMO that was less of an interview as such and more of a situational good fortune that a microphone was present.

But there have been less than complimentary outbursts by Rainey, Schwants, Lawson, Mamola, Gardner, Doohan etc about various riders over the years (Michael Rudroff anyone) and occasionally they whinged about each other.



As for the old mind games argument, well I do believe that CS does get into Rossi's head but not in the manner that many would say are mind games or that many attribute to VR (and personally I think CS is the same with VR).

Instead I do believe that CS gets VR thinking more about what is required and how he (VR) will race CS as it has been al ong time since VR has had a consistent competitor in terms of outright speed. CS on the other hand wants to be and beat VR as he seems him as the demigod of the sport and knows that to be the best, he must beat the one deemed the best which is of course VR.

I do not go for the 'mind fark' in terms that one out-psyches the other to such that they become a quibbling mess. Certainly each has had moments where the other has been concerned about them, but IMO both of these guys are the strongest mentally on the grid which is what makes their battle so damn enticing as each wants to beat the other so damn bad.






Garry

Great post Garry, its a real shame the rest of the Stoner fans that log on here are not as in tune as you and Michaelm.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Apr 1 2009, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Havent seen the footage so can't judge for myself but if what you say is indeed correct, could it be that the Ducati works for recent 250cc riders and not those who have had to already change their riding styles for the bigger bikes?

Don't forget that both stoner and even more Kalio had their own distinctive style in 250 and it was more of a hybrid between 250 and MotoGP style, squaring off the corners, not to mention Kalios spectacular rear wheel slides into slower corners.

BOttom line. Stoner and Rossi are both fast. They both can race. They both have the ability to take it to the end regardless of the issues at hand. Rossi has the upperhand in that he is experienced. Stoner has the upper hand in that he has the youth and Ducati on his side. THe season should be a good one once you start injecting the rest of the grid who really also has just about the same chance to win. We all know who our favorites are so why pick on each other with this ... for tat. Ok all in fun aside but we all want really the same thing in the end and that is good close racing. Some of you will also add your favorite rider winning the WC which is a good thing cause I am sure they appriciate your fandom. GO DUCATI!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Apr 1 2009, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>


It sure doesn't take much to get them all stirred up...




then comes the icing:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 1 2009, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no ..... it doesn't, just a bit of ........ or an outlandish remark is all it take's, and who's them ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Apr 2 2009, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Great post Garry, its a real shame the rest of the Stoner fans that log on here are not as in tune as you and Michaelm.



Do I read Gaz's post wrong? ..... he is essentially saying what I said ....... and yet .... I am lampooned

Its kinda like MGP in the Rossi era ....... there are a few that the Rossifans will tolerate, to make themselves appear somewhat "objective" , so long as "the bearable" don't ruffle the feathers too much

Why is it like motogp in the Rossi era ?? ....... simple ..... in days of yore it was about the racing/riding ..... these days its about what Rossi fans call ..... "mind games" ...... well it is to them ..... Works for them because up until a few guys that were really fast came along ( Hayden and Stoner ) then the "mindgames " was about as interesting as it got to them



PS I actually look like the middle one of the three stooges!! ....... thats amazing!

and from the photos ..... isn't the one on the left just Rog. with a shave!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 1 2009, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Do I read Gaz's post wrong? ..... he is essentially saying what I said ....... and yet .... I am lampooned

Its kinda like MGP in the Rossi era ....... there are a few that the Rossifans will tolerate, to make themselves appear somewhat "objective" , so long as "the bearable" don't ruffle the feathers too much

Why is it like motogp in the Rossi era ?? ....... simple ..... in days of yore it was about the racing/riding ..... these days its about what Rossi fans call ..... "mind games" ...... well it is to them ..... Works for them because up until a few guys that were really fast came along ( Hayden and Stoner ) then the "mindgames " was about as interesting as it got to them



PS I actually look like the middle one of the three stooges!! ....... thats amazing!

and from the photos ..... isn't the one on the left just Rog. with a shave!!

Correct me if I'm wrong Barry but were'nt you essentially saying that Casey was getting into Rossi's head while Rossi was having no affect on Casey?

The part of what I thought was great about Garry's posts was this piece below. IMO while Garry is most likely a Stoner fan like myself, he is not looking at the picture with red glasses on . It has nothing to do with looking "somewhat objective" what is there to gain from that? This is the Inet Barry . If you made a decent point every now and again I might just agree with you too. 99.9% of your post are trolling and you constantly prove you know ...., thats why you get "lampooned".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Apr 1 2009, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for the old mind games argument, well I do believe that CS does get into Rossi's head but not in the manner that many would say are mind games or that many attribute to VR (and personally I think CS is the same with VR).

Instead I do believe that CS gets VR thinking more about what is required and how he (VR) will race CS as it has been al ong time since VR has had a consistent competitor in terms of outright speed. CS on the other hand wants to be and beat VR as he seems him as the demigod of the sport and knows that to be the best, he must beat the one deemed the best which is of course VR.

I do not go for the 'mind fark' in terms that one out-psyches the other to such that they become a quibbling mess. Certainly each has had moments where the other has been concerned about them, but IMO both of these guys are the strongest mentally on the grid which is what makes their battle so damn enticing as each wants to beat the other so damn bad.

Garry

This is what I feel also Garry just put the words together better than I could. The above is nothing like anything that you have previously posted, mabey if you spent less time playing with Casey's .... in your mouth you might notice this also.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Apr 2 2009, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Correct me if I'm wrong Barry but were'nt you essentially saying that Casey was getting into Rossi's head while Rossi was having no affect on Casey?

The part of what I thought was great about Garry's posts was this piece below. IMO while Garry is most likely a Stoner fan like myself, he is not looking at the picture with red glasses on . It has nothing to do with looking "somewhat objective" what is there to gain from that? This is the Inet Barry . If you made a decent point every now and again I might just agree with you too. 99.9% of your post are trolling and you constantly prove you know ...., thats why you get "lampooned".



This is what I feel also Garry just put the words together better than I could. The above is nothing like anything that you have previously posted, mabey if you spent less time playing with Casey's .... in your mouth you might notice this also.

Well said Johnny.
And that's from a Rossi fan.

Garry, I agree with most of what you say here. Sure Stoner get the message through to Rossi when he is fastest time after time. And likewise Rossi obviously get's through to stoner on occations, but they are both very confident riders with a very strong winner intinct. As long as they both keep their pace up, no one will really get to the other.
At the same time a racers confidence is allways fragile by nature. "You are never better than the last race" comes to mind. Imagine JT now with two high sides that should get him a few frequent flyer points. It's very easy to get some serious dents in your confidence as a racer and that's why they and their team nuture it all the time. You need to "know" you are faster than the other guy to beat him. That's also why their own mistakes often are blamed on equipment or other riders. All of them are very good at puting the blame on other then their own ability, allthough some are more balanced in PR situations than others.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Apr 2 2009, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Correct me if I'm wrong Barry but were'nt you essentially saying that Casey was getting into Rossi's head while Rossi was having no affect on Casey?


read exactly what I wrote .... its all there you have just chosen to get upitty with me and are misreading what I wrote ..... but read again ... you may find it not so upsetting


Yes Stoned "phases" Rossi ....... you don't even listen to Rossi when he says things like Stoner is from a different world ....... surely you don't think he actually meant Stoner was an "alien" do you? ..... I think its quite obvious Rossi means something to the effect that Stoner cannot be "fathomed" as per a usual human ( as most of his competitiors are ) ...... I therefore think if Rossi says such things he's being somewhat honest ...... he's just using "cliches" to describe Stoner at that time ..... and yes Rossi was not used to it and found Stoner ..... not of this world .... hence yes he was "phased" Live with it

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 1 2009, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Do I read Gaz's post wrong? ..... he is essentially saying what I said ....... and yet .... I am lampooned

Its kinda like MGP in the Rossi era ....... there are a few that the Rossifans will tolerate, to make themselves appear somewhat "objective" , so long as "the bearable" don't ruffle the feathers too much

Why is it like motogp in the Rossi era ?? ....... simple ..... in days of yore it was about the racing/riding ..... these days its about what Rossi fans call ..... "mind games" ...... well it is to them ..... Works for them because up until a few guys that were really fast came along ( Hayden and Stoner ) then the "mindgames " was about as interesting as it got to them



PS I actually look like the middle one of the three stooges!! ....... thats amazing!

and from the photos ..... isn't the one on the left just Rog. with a shave!!

Barry, I basically starting posting when as an internet neophyte I started looking at international internet forums to see the reaction to casey's success, and was annoyed that he was being vilified by some rather than given credit. Whilst I try to take a broader view now, I certainly defend everyone's right to make an inflammatory comment on occasion particularly when it is done in a humorous fashion.

I know that you are much more a stoner partisan than a rossi hater, but as a point of logic I would find it difficult to take umbrage at the attitudes of those who do not give credit to stoner for winning his world championship whilst simultaneously slagging off a bloke who has won six of them as some do. I also enjoy trying to find common ground with fellow bike racing fanatics rather than argue the stoner /rossi thing interminably; oddly quite a few of these dastardly rossi fans are also fans of doohan, gardner, bayliss and even garry mccoy to say nothing of the many past international greats that you and I both also appreciate.

Oh and Rossi getting to Stoner ..... sure he does on rare occasions ..... like at Laguna ..... but I think Stoner is the type to express what he feels at the time then get over it all pretty fast, if you choose to read any more fairytale into it than that well good luck with it ..... you go on worrying about it for the next few months won't you

In fact I think Stoner is the only one who seems to get to Stoner atm.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 2 2009, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry, I basically starting posting when as an internet neophyte I started looking at international internet forums to see the reaction to casey's success, and was annoyed that he was being vilified by some rather than given credit. Whilst I try to take a broader view now, I certainly defend everyone's right to make an inflammatorycomment on occasion particularly when done in a humorous fashion.

I know that you are much more a stoner partisan than a rossi hater, but as a point of logic I would find it difficult to take umbrage at people's attitude to stoner in not giving him credit for winning his world championship whilst simultaneously slagging off a bloke who has won six of them as some do. I also enjoy trying to find common ground with fellow bike racing fanatics rather than argue the stoner /rossi thing interminably; oddly quite a few of these dastardly rossi fans are also fans of doohan, gardner, bayliss and even garry mccoy to say nothing of the many past international greats that you and I both also appreciate..


Michael , michael Michael ..... the point they are making here is that I apparently don't agree with all the "gets to someones head" TV drama stuff that is said to go on ........ do you have anything to add to that? I could go on about how I find your meandering waves of thought/discussion a tad to "tea party" but frankly thats not a discussion .... that's a tea party ..... a big group hug for the boys down the blue oyster bar ..... get some life into you Mick! inject some knowledge not just more "persona bashing" of posters on here ..... I've given you the topic ( in bold ) ..... give me a stand Mick! a point of view ......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 2 2009, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh and Rossi getting to Stoner ..... sure he does on rare occasions ..... like at Laguna ..... but I think Stoner is the type to express what he feels at the time then get over it all pretty fast

In fact I think Stoner is the only one who seems to get to Stoner atm.
I basically agree with you, and I hope we are both right. He certainly showed little or no sign of being intimidated by rossi before the laguna seca race, which despite all was still a close-run thing; the following race was a worry though and did stretch my belief in coincidence.

Like you, I would be surprised if he has been permanently intimidated, particularly if his bike is good for the first part of the new season. I guess "we'll see" .
(EDIT) The above was not a reply to your last post. You do it your way, I'll do it mine and good luck to you; I suspect there are those who consider we are both inclined to ramble/meander.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 2 2009, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>read exactly what I wrote .... its all there you have just chosen to get upitty with me and are misreading what I wrote ..... but read again ... you may find it not so upsetting


Yes Stoned "phases" Rossi ....... you don't even listen to Rossi when he says things like Stoner is from a different world ....... surely you don't think he actually meant Stoner was an "alien" do you? ..... I think its quite obvious Rossi means something to the effect that Stoner cannot be "fathomed" as per a usual human ( as most of his competitiors are ) ...... I therefore think if Rossi says such things he's being somewhat honest ...... he's just using "cliches" to describe Stoner at that time ..... and yes Rossi was not used to it and found Stoner ..... not of this world .... hence yes he was "phased" Live with it


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 2 2009, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh and Rossi getting to Stoner ..... sure he does on rare occasions ..... like at Laguna ..... but I think Stoner is the type to express what he feels at the time then get over it all pretty fast, if you choose to read any more fairytale into it than that well good luck with it ..... you go on worrying about it for the next few months won't you

In fact I think Stoner is the only one who seems to get to Stoner atm.

First off Barry I've no intention of going back reading your tripe. Upset far from it. The main point I felt your were making was the mind games one, not the BS remark that Casey is more old school. I guess you probably think hes even more old school than Capirossi

I think it is you that are reading my post wrong!! Which is a real shame because so much time is wasted pointing out the same thing to you over and over.
Did I say I had a problem with your point that Casey gets inside Vales head.. Ahhh No.

Its incredibly boring and impossible to have a decent debate with fanatic fanboys like yourself Barry.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Apr 2 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First off Barry I've no intention of going back reading your tripe. Upset far from it. The main point I felt your were making was the mind games one, not the BS remark that Casey is more old school. I guess you probably think hes even more old school than Capirossi

I think it is you that are reading my post wrong!! Which is a real shame because so much time is wasted pointing out the same thing to you over and over.
Did I say I had a problem with your point that Casey gets inside Vales head.. Ahhh No.

Its incredibly boring and impossible to have a decent debate with fanatic fanboys like yourself Barry.


Ha ha nice to someone calling the Casey fan club fan boys!

I like you Johnny!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 2 2009, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I basically agree with you, and I hope we are both right. He certainly showed little or no sign of being intimidated by rossi before the laguna seca race, which despite all was still a close-run thing; the following race was a worry though and did stretch my belief in coincidence.

Like you, I would be surprised if he has been permanently intimidated, particularly if his bike is good for the first part of the new season. I guess "we'll see" .
(EDIT) The above was not a reply to your last post. You do it your way, I'll do it mine and good luck to you; I suspect there are those who consider we are both inclined to ramble/meander.
micheal right berrys wrong as usual if you talk out of your mouth rather than your arse berry we may be able to understand you but your better fun than tom so carry on as usual mucker

I blame Dorna for taking so long to get the ....... season started.


WSBK this weekend fellas, divert your energy there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 2 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I blame Dorna for taking so long to get the ....... season started.


WSBK this weekend fellas, divert your energy there.


I'm with you. It seems like the offseason has lasted about a year which is really lame