MotoGP fading

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Jan 10 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Look,

If BMW enters SBK in 09 and they do reasonably well...

Then in 10 and 11, they don't really catch up to Ducati and Yamaha and are running around chasing top 10 finishes

Then in 12, they do a big management shuffle cuz everybody's unhappy, but nothing changes in terms of results

Then in 13 or 14, they announce they're pulling out of SBK completely.

Would you seriously claim that SBK is gonna fade away because a manufacturer gave up after 5 years?

That above scenario is entirely possible and maybe even probable.

The sky is not falling.

A manufacturer that had a crapload of internal strife and never really got off the ground, gave up after 5 years.

No big deal, nothing to see hear, move along.
YEah fine but if those 2 bikes leave there are still 34 on the grid instead of 17 or so. Geez sbk is going to have it this year. GP is already sucking for this year. Shame that kawi is out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jan 10 2009, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kawi had what an inline 4? What a ....... amazing prototype configuration WOW!!! And the laughable screamer my god. Blue Kawi eh? Get some glasses...pneumatic valve train b4 anyone on the grid by 2 years...that's prototyping.

I'm pretty sure Kawi had pneumatics first.

They were rumored to have been running it since 2004.

It doesn't really matter, though. Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha all bought their systems from the same place. I believe an old former-F1 Japanese engineer designed it.

OMG KAWI IS LEAVING THE SERIES

pack it up

obviously it's all over

i mean, they've been here for FIVE WHOLE YEARS !!!!!!!

HOLY COW !!!!

i think i just valentino on the corner asking for change

and ezy was standing next to him

Dear Morons,

Kawi didn't exist in GPs until the years started with a 20 as opposed to a 19

get over yourselves.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Jan 11 2009, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OMG KAWI IS LEAVING THE SERIES

pack it up

obviously it's all over

i mean, they've been here for FIVE WHOLE YEARS !!!!!!!

HOLY COW !!!!

i think i just valentino on the corner asking for change

and ezy was standing next to him

Dear Morons,

Kawi didn't exist in GPs until the years started with a 20 as opposed to a 19

get over yourselves.


So you are fine with 16 or so bikes? You fine with only 5 full rows of bikes on the grid? You know how amateur that looks on television on at the race track? That is an embarassment to what is supposed to be the World ....... Championship. A place were 40 bikes should be lining up. A place where everyone wants to be in. Teams that show up and run a bike they made in there garage. A place every motorcycle manufacturer wants to spend their racing money in.

You fine with 4 companies supplying the whole grid with bikes? That is amateur.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Jan 11 2009, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OMG KAWI IS LEAVING THE SERIES

pack it up

obviously it's all over

i mean, they've been here for FIVE WHOLE YEARS !!!!!!!

HOLY COW !!!!

i think i just valentino on the corner asking for change

and ezy was standing next to him

Dear Morons,

Kawi didn't exist in GPs until the years started with a 20 as opposed to a 19

get over yourselves.

Its sad to see any team go, Kawasaki is only a small part of Motogp, the worrying thing is what if other teams follow suit.

What is over and has been for a while is the excitement. The core of what motor sport is all about is close and hard battles. In the last two years I could count with one hand of such examples. It used to be man 80% machine 20%(or something like that) Whats it these days?

Sure waiting for a race to begin and just watching the bikes and riders in action is always a great buzz but by the end of the race I'm usually like wtf was that?? If I wanted to see a parade I would just wait for Paddys day.

Motogp is screwed even if Kawasaki, Team Roberts and Aprilia came back.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Jan 11 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you are fine with 16 or so bikes? You fine with only 5 full rows of bikes on the grid? You know how amateur that looks on television on at the race track? That is an embarassment to what is supposed to be the World ....... Championship. A place were 40 bikes should be lining up. A place where everyone wants to be in. Teams that show up and run a bike they made in there garage. A place every motorcycle manufacturer wants to spend their racing money in.

You fine with 4 companies supplying the whole grid with bikes? That is amateur.


See here

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=9499

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Jan 11 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you are fine with 16 or so bikes? You fine with only 5 full rows of bikes on the grid? You know how amateur that looks on television on at the race track? That is an embarassment to what is supposed to be the World ....... Championship. A place were 40 bikes should be lining up. A place where everyone wants to be in. Teams that show up and run a bike they made in there garage. A place every motorcycle manufacturer wants to spend their racing money in.

You fine with 4 companies supplying the whole grid with bikes? That is amateur.

Motogp looks amateur because it's too exclusive? It's too expensive, not enough people have the money and/or ability to enter and you think thats amateur? Reducng costs and encouraging privateer/second rate teams is fine to pad out the show, but the best teams and riders are there at the front and unlikely to be shifted by the Kawasaki's or Moriwaki's of this world. I agree that these measures to cheapen the sport may raise it greater hights in the future, but it cannot look amatuer now unless we have something more proffessional to compare it to in the motorcycle racing world, and we don't.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R1 SF @ Jan 11 2009, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>See here

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=9499

Exactly. But it should be MotoGP that the manufacturers want to get into. The privateers want to race in.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 11 2009, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Motogp looks amateur because it's too exclusive?


MotoGP reminds me of a country club in many ways. A few elite members make all of the decisions. The club was originally founded for recreation and well being, but now it exists primarily to keep people out. MotoGP is a political status symbol.

BTW, country clubs are full of amateurs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 11 2009, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MotoGP reminds me of a country club in many ways. A few elite members make all of the decisions. The club was originally founded for recreation and well being, but now it exists primarily to keep people out. MotoGP is a political status symbol.

BTW, country clubs are full of amateurs.

Although you might argue that motogp is amateur from a business/management or political standpoint, the competitors are clearly the opposite. Motogp will need to change to keep its status within the sport, how to change it is a difficult decision (as we are discussing elswhere).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 9 2009, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Austin, no "insight"? WTF What about the line "Up until recently the 'credit crunch' was just a excuse driven buzzword for a few half-arsed firms going out of business due to poor management" These guys nailed it while the rest of the raccoons and squirrels go on believing that this .... was some natural disaster.
Yeah, they're right. But you or I could have written the piece. That's what's annoying. Congratulations GP News, you wrote an article summing up the current situation with comedy. That's what forums are for. Offer me some insight as to why this event happened or how it could be solved. You know, information from sources. That would require too much work to get done at GP News.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 10 2009, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Whether or not Kawasaki has made a positive impact on the sport is irrelevant. The sport must function as a laboratory for motorcycle manufacturers. If manufacturers are pulling out of the series, the laboratory isn't working properly.

Furthermore, in case you haven't noticed, almost all of the manufacturers are testing the exact same things. 800cc 4 stroke 4 cylinder engines with pneumatic valves that utilize numerous electronic gadgets like TC, GPS, lean angle sensors, etc. All bikes roll on the exact same sets of tires.

If it ain't working for Kawi, it isn't working for anyone. Big advertising budgets from the sport's big 3 manufacturers and their sponsorship network are the only thing keeping the sport alive. If you haven't noticed we're in a global recession and advertising dollars are relatively scarce. Similarly, TV audiences are small because no one wants to watch boring races with little passing.

Kawi's departure is serious because the sport has very weak fundamentals. MotoGP is a poor product with a high price tag. Manufacturers, fans, riders, and track owners have all noticed.
Thank you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Jan 11 2009, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OMG KAWI IS LEAVING THE SERIES

pack it up

obviously it's all over

i mean, they've been here for FIVE WHOLE YEARS !!!!!!!

HOLY COW !!!!

i think i just valentino on the corner asking for change

and ezy was standing next to him

Dear Morons,

Kawi didn't exist in GPs until the years started with a 20 as opposed to a 19

get over yourselves.
Just because you were around to watch the great GPs of the 80s, or whatever decade you got hip to it, doesn't mean you're right. Get over yourself, mate. If you can't see the ramifications of Kawi pulling out then it's quite clear you don't understand modern Grand Prix.

The sport is too expensive for private teams to be competitive. It's almost too expensive for private teams to run. If it's too expensive for Kawasaki, a factory effort, then the writing is on the wall. Who will step up?

You hit the nail on the head, teams and manufacturers come and go, but that was a different era. And this is what seems to escape fans who have been with it since the 70s and 80s (no offense, didn't mean to generalize but it's been evident to me). GPs survived slim times in the past. But in the past if you had the right guys, you could go out and buy yourself a 500 and go racing. You can't simply go out and lease a new RC212V. How many private owners have tried in the past three years and been told no?

Why can't some of you understand this? If one factory team pulls out and the others are unwilling to supply more bikes and the private teams start falling off (which isn't too far off, IMO), then who is going to race?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 12 2009, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just because you were around to watch the great GPs of the 80s, or whatever decade you got hip to it, doesn't mean you're right. Get over yourself, mate. If you can't see the ramifications of Kawi pulling out then it's quite clear you don't understand modern Grand Prix.

The sport is too expensive for private teams to be competitive. It's almost too expensive for private teams to run. If it's too expensive for Kawasaki, a factory effort, then the writing is on the wall. Who will step up?

You hit the nail on the head, teams and manufacturers come and go, but that was a different era. And this is what seems to escape fans who have been with it since the 70s and 80s (no offense, didn't mean to generalize but it's been evident to me). GPs survived slim times in the past. But in the past if you had the right guys, you could go out and buy yourself a 500 and go racing. You can't simply go out and lease a new RC212V. How many private owners have tried in the past three years and been told no?

In fact motogp's grids were getting a little small for comfort sometime around the late 80's/early 90's, so much so that a few races had approximately ten finishers. Apparently the factories were threatened with 4 stroke production based engine rules to get entries up and the response was that Yamaha agreed to licence Roc and Harris to build YZR chassis from the previous season and agreed to sell them engines. Looking to the past can be very useful as the current situation is quite similar, and look as recently as 2006 to see how successfuly a private team can be by buying an engine and being given help to build a chassis.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 10 2009, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure Kawi had pneumatics first.

They were rumored to have been running it since 2004.

It doesn't really matter, though. Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha all bought their systems from the same place. I believe an old former-F1 Japanese engineer designed it.

Actually the Cube was first I think

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 12 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Congratulations GP News, you wrote an article summing up the current situation with comedy.

Uhm, I think that was their intention.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 12 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just because you were around to watch the great GPs of the 80s, or whatever decade you got hip to it, doesn't mean you're right. Get over yourself, mate. If you can't see the ramifications of Kawi pulling out then it's quite clear you don't understand modern Grand Prix.

The sport is too expensive for private teams to be competitive. It's almost too expensive for private teams to run. If it's too expensive for Kawasaki, a factory effort, then the writing is on the wall. GPs survived slim times in the past. But in the past if you had the right guys, you could go out and buy yourself a 500 and go racing.

Great insight.

Nah, really, you made some great points.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 12 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Uhm, I think that was their intention.
I know and they do a good job with it. I guess I just feel like it's not worth much more than a laugh.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 12 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Great insight.

Nah, really, you made some great points.
Cheers.

I think that ALL sports that rely so heavyily on sponsorship are going to suffer, and bailing them out is not a good long term solution it will just delay the enevitable.

Perhaps some of the teams ought to be delving into their own well lined pockets, if they want to keep their team on the grid (and I'm not just talking about Motogp here) Carlos Checca used to help fund the team he rode for. (can't remember which on now, but I'm sure one of you guys/gals out there will know the answer) Riders, drivers, other members of the team, Lets face it they're the ones with all the money!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Jan 14 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think that ALL sports that rely so heavyily on sponsorship are going to suffer, and bailing them out is not a good long term solution it will just delay the enevitable.

Perhaps some of the teams ought to be delving into their own well lined pockets, if they want to keep their team on the grid (and I'm not just talking about Motogp here) Carlos Checca used to help fund the team he rode for. (can't remember which on now, but I'm sure one of you guys/gals out there will know the answer) Riders, drivers, other members of the team, Lets face it they're the ones with all the money!
Tech 3, carlos rode for free and game personal sponsorship money to the team i believe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Jan 14 2009, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think that ALL sports that rely so heavyily on sponsorship are going to suffer, and bailing them out is not a good long term solution it will just delay the enevitable.

Perhaps some of the teams ought to be delving into their own well lined pockets, if they want to keep their team on the grid (and I'm not just talking about Motogp here) Carlos Checca used to help fund the team he rode for. (can't remember which on now, but I'm sure one of you guys/gals out there will know the answer) Riders, drivers, other members of the team, Lets face it they're the ones with all the money!


It certainly isnt the riders who are making all the money.You can count on one hand the riders who get paid what would be considered a professional sport salary.And you could count on one finger,the riders who make enough that they could turn around and invest in the teams interest that would make a difference.They are talking 50 million a year to run a GP team,what could a rider that makes 1 million a year give up that would make a difference.Dorna is the one that seems to horde the cash.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 14 2009, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It certainly isnt the riders who are making all the money.You can count on one hand the riders who get paid what would be considered a professional sport salary.And you could count on one finger,the riders who make enough that they could turn around and invest in the teams interest that would make a difference.They are talking 50 million a year to run a GP team,what could a rider that makes 1 million a year give up that would make a difference.Dorna is the one that seems to horde the cash.
YEah they horde the cash. They suck obviously. I really think they should allow the tobacco companies to come back in the mix. THey have a right to advertise and put their money into something they feel will bring a return and it is legal. They got the bucks. Plus maybe some alcohol companies should think about it as well. But that ain't gonna happen so we are going to be looking at an emaciated grid for the next few years if we are lucky. Other than that there will be no more MOTO GP. Who else has the money to throw around?