Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Well that sucks. King Kenny rode his 1980 YZR500 on a "demo" ride at Laguna. My ears are still ringing.
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Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
That is, quite frankly, the most stupid statement I have ever read in my life. INCREASED COST IS EXPECTED TO BRING SUPERIOR SPECIFICATIONS. And my point is still this:, the bike is about 9 times cheaper (Yamaha R1) puts out more horsepower (I.e. superior stats) than this POS.
By your argument, if Ford brought out a replacement for the Fusion, that was actually worse in specification and performance than the market equivalents,but badged it as a 'NASCAR Replica' limited edition, you'd be perfectly happy to pay nearly 10 times the retail price right? Bollocks.
I understand that the US "Asthmatic Ant" spec is probably due to emissions, but other manifacturers are all getting around that using the very same '1000cc and spring valves' you keep proclaiming are so 'limiting', so how is that? Most superbikes are built for the road, and as such have to be limited by the need to be reliable. This 'Race Replica' is most likely only going to be used occasionally for the mega rich who own it to go on a jaunt or a trackday and I expect use is heavily backed by stringent Honda service periods, so again answer me, how is a 1000cc valve spring engine limited to 101/136bhp when almost every other 1000cc valve spring road bike is putting out another 40% on top with no reliability issues?
Hell, the Desmosedici RR puts out a claimed 197 HP (And I know what you're going to say - 'Oh but that has Desmodromic Valves'. It does, but they have their limitations too, such as they infact are subjected to higher stresses at peak RPM than a spring valve, and the system was only invented to over come the issue of valve float but these days computer modelling is so advanced and accurate that they can understand this issue a lot better, that is, that it is caused by oscillating compression waves caused by resonance in the spring, this was mainly overcome by 1 (or 2) concentric springs mounted within the main valve spring to act as a resonance damper for it. In fact the desmodromic system can still suffer from valve bounce AND causes more frictional losses at higher RPM than a traditional spring valve due to inertial loads. Yes, for racing and power applications Pneumatic valves will be better but my counter to your point is that other 1000cc bikes with spring valves are putting out more power, so why should I or anyone pay nearly ten times as much just for a bike that has the same wheels, frame and engine block as the GP bike? The specification DOES NOT justify the cost. I'd rather buy a Fireblade and deck it out in Repsol colours, hell it'd be faster!
Would loved to have seen that. I know when I raced superkarts, every year at the British GP they'd have a parade session for all the historic karts (some I'm talking about still had solid rubber tyres and a school seat!), after the first 2 years they put a pace car out to control them as drivers were 'demo-ing', so all they did was slow down for 1/2 a lap then race to catch up the pace car, great to watch!
Joined Apr 2011
636 Posts | 26+
Gold Coast
Where are the hp figures read from? If its at the back wheel, the full 212hp that comes with the track setup is a ...... huge figure. The new r1 only puts out about 170hp dependant on the dyno and atmospheric conditions.
Have a price check on the suspension components too. I would have an educated guess and say the front forks alone are worth (cost) $15k plus.
Saying that tho, its still a bit overpriced. The problem being with top end motorcycles is that extra cost doesnt always equate to massive performance differences. A s1000rr is almost a slow motogp bike in the right hands and only differ in price by about $1,000,000....
Have a price check on the suspension components too. I would have an educated guess and say the front forks alone are worth (cost) $15k plus.
Saying that tho, its still a bit overpriced. The problem being with top end motorcycles is that extra cost doesnt always equate to massive performance differences. A s1000rr is almost a slow motogp bike in the right hands and only differ in price by about $1,000,000....
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
They don't say Digger, but the full track setup is an extra option thats probably £20K more. What we are talking about is the stock version that will onl be available with 101bhp in the US and you cannot upgrade it there.
I agree with your last paragraph, however I still believe a 10 times price difference is taking the piss...
I agree with your last paragraph, however I still believe a 10 times price difference is taking the piss...
Joined Apr 2015
1K Posts | 731+
neptune
I don't know if everyone can see this...but there's Stoner Boner for you guys if you haven't seen it already.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Joined Apr 2015
1K Posts | 731+
neptune
He even said he didn't rip on it very much. So, I can see why there is no engine sound. I'd rather see him rip on it and pop a couple wheelies rather than wave.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Same here.
Nakamoto probably said, "Stoner-san is not allowed to go wide open throttle. If we do that, the journalists are going to keep asking me when he is coming back to HRC. I can't deal with that .... anymore."
The stock trim is for usability on public roads. Offering an optional upgrade is smart.
If you understand the limitations of spring valves, why are you asking me to justify max power of 212hp? You understand why peak horsepower is 212hp on pump gasoline. You should be asking why the D16RR only makes 197hp with desmodromic valves.
You're complaining about the performance of a bike that will handily beat any cookie-cutter superbike on the track. In your eyes, the RC is not worthy because Honda is not capable of exponentially exceeding the peak horsepower figures of standard superbikes, though 1000cc spring-valved engines are limited to 200hp/liter for production bikes on pump gas.
You seem somewhat detached from reality, as if you thought maybe you'd be able to afford this bike, and it would produce 250hp.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
And there we have it, totally avoiding the question at hand and resorting to personal insults. Yeah, I'm totally detatched from reality for expecting a GRAND PRIX REPLICA motorcycle with a price tag to match to be A: Somewhat similar in performance as is reasonably possible and B: To have more performance (NOT just BHP as you keep mistakenly assuming) that a roadbike a tenth of the price.
I pay £15000 for a 2015 R1, for that I understand that while it's an impressive bike, it doesn't really share anything in common with the M1 bike (except some of the electronics and the big bang config). If I pay £136,000 for a bike that is not just a road/superbike, but a road going GP Replica, I expect it to somewhat resemble that bike. Dropping over 50% HP for emissions or whatever other regulations is ........, So you're damn right it's not worthy. While I agree with you a bit about the usability on public roads, Honda are just stuck up and assuming as it has the model name RCV and it branded as sharing parts of their GP bike, that they can dumb it down to less than 50% of the power of what it's supposed to be a replica of. That's my issue and the question you keep trying to avoid by burying your responses under words such as 'Pump gas, spring valves' etc etc. So I'll write it out clearly: Why is the (US spec especially) Honda so limited on power? The fact they offer an upgrade kit means that the power is possible, and most probably attainable by electronic means so why is it so restricted? 212bhp might be the maximum power attainable on street gas as you keep referring to, but they could presumably run the bike at 150 or even 180 bhp and still have a good 40-60bhp to play with for their tuning kit.
Name me one example of something you've bought. Anything, a truck, a house...anything. Then try and tell me you'd have paid ten times the price for it with half the features/benefits.
I won't presume to know your personal business, so don't presume to know mine. I have Diplomas and Bachelors Degrees in Automotive Engineering, Motorsport Engineering and have worked in F1 and other forms of motorsport in Engine Development, and how the .... do you know what I can or can-not afford? Are you stalking me?!
My appetite for gonzo conversationalism expired years ago.
If you're an accomplished motorsport engineer, you're capable of answering your own questions. As for the source of your theatrical rage: Wales.
If you're an accomplished motorsport engineer, you're capable of answering your own questions. As for the source of your theatrical rage: Wales.
The real question is why are you so afraid that someone may choose the detuned road spec over the sport package?
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
[QUOTE B =mylexicon;375188]The real question is why are you so afraid that someone may choose the detuned road spec over the sport package?[/QUOTE]
A - He was mislead by the fact that you don't seem to be able to afford a real avatar.
B. Oooo me! Teacher - pick me!
Teacher: Okay Johnny what is the answer to question B?
Johnny: Becuz folks are generally fed up with Honda's general arrogance and on a count of they is insulted at the idea of paying so much money for something that under-performs.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
I thought your appetite for 'gonzo conversation' expired years ago?
Keshav hit the nail on the head, it's a question of getting what you pay for. Not just to massage the ego of an aloof motorcycle manufacturer.
