MotoGP Catalunya: Casey Stoner to demo RCV road bike

J4rn0 · Jun 12, 2015

Jumkie said:
"Stoner, cuando hizo el test probó la moto, pero está claro que después de un año sin ir en moto, no puede desarrollar nada."

Stoner, when he did the testing, he tested the bike, but it's clear that after a year of not riding, he can't develope anything."

Haha Marquez is now blaming Stoner for not developing the bike to his liking.

Quite possible, but there's more: Honda engineers were very aware of Ducati coming at them with their usual powerful engine and a bike that could actually turn -- plus 12 engines and 22 liters on top of that -- and wanted to make sure that their bike would match Ducati's speed and traction anyway. So they pushed the bhp output as much as possible, using a very light crankshaft and trusting they coud make it rideable through electronics voodoo.

Both Pedrosa and Marquez complained about a very aggressive engine during the winter tests, but HRC engineers preferred listening to their de luxe test rider Casey Stoner (who never complains about an engine being too aggressive).

So there they are: the cure would be using a heavier crankshaft and tune down the ower output a bit, but the engines have been seaed and theres no way too do that -- they have to rely on electronics but time is working agaiinst them because electronics also is going to be frozen soon. We could witness again Honda scrxxed by the very rules they like to enforce.

In all this one can imagine a reason why Stoner was so eager to replace Pedrosa: "I can show you how to ride this unrideable bike!".
One can sense not much love lost between MM and CS, and they never even raced against each other...

Jumkie · Jun 12, 2015

I don't think Honda engineering had 2 thoughts about whatever the hell Ducati were up to, frankly that's funny. So HRC are suddenly concerned with Ducati, while Rossi and Lorenzo are ridding up their ...... Haha

Meeting in Japan:

[Nakamoto takes his seat] "So gentlemen, Rossi threw his crew chief under the bus so you know he's gonna be hungry and Lorenzo is iching to get right, the Yamaha is always our strongest rival and competion. That Yamaha is a sweet machine under the tutelage of this multiple world champs and Legend. Let's get to work boys!"

....so let's get our machine to beat the Ducati!

What universe are u getting your logic from Jrno? Kropo perhaps?

Keshav · Jun 12, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Quite possible, but there's more: Honda engineers were very aware of Ducati coming at them with their usual powerful engine and a bike that could actually turn -- plus 12 engines and 22 liters on top of that -- and wanted to make sure that their bike would match Ducati's speed and traction anyway. So they pushed the bhp output as much as possible, using a very light crankshaft and trusting they coud make it rideable through electronics voodoo.

Both Pedrosa and Marquez complained about a very aggressive engine during the winter tests, but HRC engineers preferred listening to their de luxe test rider Casey Stoner (who never complains about an engine being too aggressive).

In all this one can imagine a reason why Stoner was so eager to replace Pedrosa: "I can show you how to ride this unrideable bike!".
One can sense not much love lost between MM and CS, and they never even raced against each other...

Gut feeling... the use of the lighter crankshaft is more a result of Honda's insecurity about the Ducati - than it is about Stoner's testing. After all they were building the engine for MM and Dani. MM shouldn't whine. He should have been spending more time at Honda testing the bikes himself. That MM is trying to put the blame on Stoner - can only have Casey laughing up his sleeve right now. Honda is generally pretty arrogant and after a relatively poor showing from Yamaha last year, with no news of any influx of increased R&D $ - they probably weren't thinking that Yamaha would be that big a threat. I wouldn't be surprised if they were fearing a replay of 2007.

JPSLotus · Jun 12, 2015

Jumkie said:
"Stoner, cuando hizo el test probó la moto, pero está claro que después de un año sin ir en moto, no puede desarrollar nada."

Stoner, when he did the testing, he tested the bike, but it's clear that after a year of not riding, he can't develope anything."

Haha Marquez is now blaming Stoner for not developing the bike to his liking.

I wonder if this is why Casey was hanging around Lambo/Ducati land recently.

Between Nakamoto and Marquez mouthing off, maybe Casey is thinking, "If I can get on the Ducati and have zero PR obligations outside of race weekend press conferences, I can kill two for the price of one."

Christ, I'm getting hard at the thought of Casey getting back on the Desmosedici, and causing Nakamoto to commit seppuku. Sure it's not at all likely, but it's my ....... fantasy.

levigarrett · Jun 12, 2015

JPSLotus said:
I wonder if this is why Casey was hanging around Lambo/Ducati land recently.

Between Nakamoto and Marquez mouthing off, maybe Casey is thinking, "If I can get on the Ducati and have zero PR obligations outside of race weekend press conferences, I can kill two for the price of one."

Christ, I'm getting hard at the thought of Casey getting back on the Desmosedici, and causing Nakamoto to commit seppuku. Sure it's not at all likely, but it's my ....... fantasy.

I think Ducati would be forced to field anther bike though. Dovi and Iannone aren't going anywhere. Factory spec Premac they could do without missing a beat but all this is really unlikely. If Casey ever rides in GP again, it'll be onboard a Honda.

JPSLotus · Jun 12, 2015

This is also what Honda does best; blissful ignorance that anyone can possibly ever match their superior engineering prowess.

They're just the sort of group where even if they are losing on track, they'll turn around internally and say, "Aha, this doesn't matter. With our superior knowledge and decades of racing experience, we can put pencil to paper and design a superior vehicle that will put everyone to shame. We must first hold meetings to determine in what way we must meet this new challenge effectively. But before that, we must host meetings to determine who shall attend those meetings. Once we do that, we will have another meeting to determine the procedural aspects of the meeting such as what types of tables, chairs, pens, paper, and recording instruments we shall use. The great thing about Honda is that when we move forward, we make sure everyone and everything is pointing in the same direction."

Which is why years go by before they effectively address some things.

JPSLotus · Jun 12, 2015

levigarrett said:
I think Ducati would be forced to field anther bike though. Dovi and Iannone aren't going anywhere. Factory spec Premac they could do without missing a beat but all this is really unlikely. If Casey ever rides in GP again, it'll be onboard a Honda.

I'd be happy just to see him on something because I'm pretty sure he would hand MurderMac his ... over the course of an entire season.

Iowegian · Jun 12, 2015

For those who were lusting after a Desmo RR, there is one on ebay right now for $35k. Item number 111690324507. I know if i had the money for the honda, i would buy the desmo and have enough to buy a house...

JPSLotus · Jun 12, 2015

Iowegian said:
For those who were lusting after a Desmo RR, there is one on ebay right now for $35k. Item number 111690324507. I know if i had the money for the honda, i would buy the desmo and have enough to buy a house...

I was watching some YouTube videos of the Desmosedici RR last week. That thing sounds like an absolute beast.

But don't you have to take the bike for service at a Ducati dealer that actually has someone trained to work on the RR? I thought I read that not every Duc dealer can work on those things.

Iowegian · Jun 12, 2015

I honestly dont know. I would imagine most dealers at least in larger Cities would have someone to work on them. They do sound absolutely insane, especially with the race exhaust that come with them.

levigarrett · Jun 12, 2015

JPSLotus said:
I was watching some YouTube videos of the Desmosedici RR last week. That thing sounds like an absolute beast.

But don't you have to take the bike for service at a Ducati dealer that actually has someone trained to work on the RR? I thought I read that not every Duc dealer can work on those things.

This was true for quite some time. I'm not sure if it's still the case. That being said, I suspect in any metro area, you'd be able to find someone at a dealership who can do the valves properly.

J4rn0 · Jun 13, 2015

Jumkie said:
I don't think Honda engineering had 2 thoughts about whatever the hell Ducati were up to, frankly that's funny. So HRC are suddenly concerned with Ducati, while Rossi and Lorenzo are ridding up their ...... Haha

Meeting in Japan:

[Nakamoto takes his seat] "So gentlemen, Rossi threw his crew chief under the bus so you know he's gonna be hungry and Lorenzo is iching to get right, the Yamaha is always our strongest rival and competion. That Yamaha is a sweet machine under the tutelage of this multiple world champs and Legend. Let's get to work boys!"

....so let's get our machine to beat the Ducati!

What universe are u getting your logic from Jrno? Kropo perhaps?

Jum, Honda DID make (and seal) those very aggressive and powerful engines this season -- why did they do it? Because they were afraid Yamaha would ppass them on the straights? Nope, they wanted to prevent Ducati doing that. They were not worried about Ducati winning the title (not yet during the winter), but for them matching Ducatis speed is a matter of pride.
Yamaha have a more pragmatic and intelligent approach.

Jumkie · Jun 13, 2015

Interesting J4rno. I'm not sure that makes a whole lot of sense. But can we agree that this could qualify as a conspiracy theory unless u know this as a fact? Or do you 'know' this as fact? I'm not taking another dig at you, I'm being serious. Or have u hypothesized this from reading Honda's historical reputation?

J4rn0 · Jun 13, 2015

Jumkie said:
Interesting J4rno. I'm not sure that makes a whole lot of sense. But can we agree that this could qualify as a conspiracy theory unless u know this as a fact? Or do you 'know' this as fact? I'm not taking another dig at you, I'm being serious. Or have u hypothesized this from reading Honda's historical reputation?

Its not a conspiracy theory... Call it an educated guess.

mylexicon · Jun 14, 2015

#22 said:
£136,000 ($212,000 US) For a bike that has less power than a lot of 1 litre superbikes?! .... that!! Sure, you can get 212bhp, but I bet that's another £20,000 on top for that.

What did you expect? The manufacturers can only do so much with 1000cc and spring valves.

The stock bike is meant to be enjoyable on the road. In sport configuration, the engine pushes the 1000cc spring valve threshold by a dozen horsepower. That's about as good as it's going to get.

JPSLotus · Jun 14, 2015

They should just bring back one of their NSR500 2 strokes for public sale.

I'll take the 1989 version with the Rothman's livery.

mylexicon · Jun 14, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Quite possible, but there's more: Honda engineers were very aware of Ducati coming at them with their usual powerful engine and a bike that could actually turn -- plus 12 engines and 22 liters on top of that -- and wanted to make sure that their bike would match Ducati's speed and traction anyway. So they pushed the bhp output as much as possible, using a very light crankshaft and trusting they coud make it rideable through electronics voodoo.

Both Pedrosa and Marquez complained about a very aggressive engine during the winter tests, but HRC engineers preferred listening to their de luxe test rider Casey Stoner (who never complains about an engine being too aggressive).

So there they are: the cure would be using a heavier crankshaft and tune down the ower output a bit, but the engines have been seaed and theres no way too do that -- they have to rely on electronics but time is working agaiinst them because electronics also is going to be frozen soon. We could witness again Honda scrxxed by the very rules they like to enforce.

In all this one can imagine a reason why Stoner was so eager to replace Pedrosa: "I can show you how to ride this unrideable bike!".
One can sense not much love lost between MM and CS, and they never even raced against each other...

The Ducati couldn't even turn in 2014. HRC could only be worried about Ducati, if they knew the GP15 was going to work. HRC would only have known the Ducati would work if something related to handling was going to change.

Bridgestone probably changed the grip balance to suit Ducati. Yamaha also know how to use these tires, and Lorenzo is back in 2010 form. Honda, on the other hand, struggle to put the power down. First they started messing with the swingarm to see if they could get the power to the pavement. Now they have conceded defeat by running longer exhaust, which allegedly reduces the rpm level at which peak torque occurs. The bike is more ridable and has less top end.

Unless someone has confirmation from race direction or another quality source on the inside, I'm inclined to believe Nakamoto. He was dismissive of reports that they screwed up engine development.

ReddiWhip · Jun 14, 2015

Though the reduction in top end didn't stop Pedrosa from removing the paint from the right side of Maverick's bike on the front straight. ha ha

#22 · Jun 14, 2015

mylexicon said:
What did you expect? The manufacturers can only do so much with 1000cc and spring valves.

The stock bike is meant to be enjoyable on the road. In sport configuration, the engine pushes the 1000cc spring valve threshold by a dozen horsepower. That's about as good as it's going to get.

For $200,000 dollars? I expect a bike that puts out more power than a bike a tenth of the price....

mylexicon · Jun 14, 2015

#22 said:
For $200,000 dollars? I expect a bike that puts out more power than a bike a tenth of the price....

There was no reason to expect a superior stat sheet. Naturally-aspirated engines have their limitations. The benefits of the RC won't be seen on paper, unless you're looking at lap times.

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MotoGP Catalunya: Casey Stoner to demo RCV road bike

J4rn0

Jumkie

Keshav

JPSLotus

levigarrett

JPSLotus

JPSLotus

Iowegian

JPSLotus

Iowegian

levigarrett

J4rn0

Jumkie

J4rn0

mylexicon

JPSLotus

mylexicon

ReddiWhip

#22

mylexicon

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