motoGP 2011 Rd 1 Qatar

Bunyip said:

I haven,t seen much of Bradyl before, so can,t comment. Certainly a dominant ride today, but I don,t think todays race was representative. There were strange tyre issues I believe, and I don,t trust the results when Sofoglu was 18th I think.



But, I have seen many races by Iannone that remind me or a younger Rossi. We,ll see.













PS> Wheres Talpa?

I suspect he is watching and rewatching the race, and waiting for the one where Rossi gets his podium.

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I don't get why people are hyping Super Glue, has anyone noticed how his old Ten Kate teammate Pirro is adjust better than he is?

woody996 said:

I agree with you on this. I thought Stoner didn't ride as hard as he could have. The only time he did was when he opened up after passing Dani and quickly realised he didn't need to go that quick. If he does that this year, he'll get the championship and not come close to crashing.



Lorenzo was far too happy in my opinion - the only reason he beat Pedrosa was Pedrosa had his body let go and the only reason he was so close to both Stoner and Pedrosa was because they didn't go as quickly as they could have.



Dani - I'm not knocking or questioning his injury. I genuinely wish him to succeed this year. In an earlier post I was merely questioning whether he would cop the same line of argument - i.e. that he blames his shoulder when he doesn't get the job done. I do respect Dani for the fact that there has been minimal mention of his shoulder however I don't think it has affected him the same. Everyone could argue for months about this.



I would like to know what's going on for Hayden. He is being less vocal and looks unhappy at the moment. Don't want the speculation, would like to know the facts.

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Not so important (from Lorenzo's point of view) beating Dani, regardless of the arm-pump issue. I reckon

he was experiencing a tremendous amount of sheer relief - just because he was on the podium. After all

the constant talk in the paddock and the press about apparent advantages the Hondas were exhibiting,

I suspect Lorenzo was feeling like he might be beaten before he ever let out the clutch. As he said -

he was on the edge of crashing throughout the entire race, catching the bike in several near falls.

He didn't get that 2nd place spot on the podium gifted to him by virtue of the Yamaha's superior

handling; he had to work a lot harder for 2nd place than he ever had before. I got the feel he

was experiencing tremendous exhilaration because it was such an accomplishment to place

so well - against the odds.



The other side of the coin is of course - that when the adrenaline wears off

and he watches the playback of the race - he'll be depressed at how handily

Stoner left them all in the dust.

michaelm said:

If you are not a stoner fan (

) you perhaps have greater latitude, but as someone who was a stoner fan in 2008 and 2009 I am not going to call anyone as mentally broken or as using an arm injury for an excuse. Dani has been well reported to have mutiple fractures of his clavicle requiring surgery and a nerve injury, and it is entirely feasible he has not yet got normal muscle strength back in his arm; he has a strong record of stoicism with his many previous injuries as well. However as has been said he is often injured, and this fragility has imo in most years excluded him as a serious contender for the championship, restricting him to meritorious placings.



The honda has seemed to fade late in races in dani's hands , and lex's theory that his set-up causes fuel economy problems is an interesting one; fuel economy may be marginal overall with the honda, I can remember nicky running dry in the early days of the pneumatic engine. If the sort of pace the honda is running now involves it being set up a bit less smoothly this will help stoner as he if not much bigger is I think when healthy considerably stronger than dani; dani was complaining about the power delivery early in pre-season testing.

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I'm not a doctor (I don't even play one on TV) - but have managed to break both collar bones - and can attest

that long after the bone has knitted - it screws up the feel of the shoulder. It's been 22 years

since I broke the 2nd one (at the AMA Nationals at Mid-Ohio) and there are times when I'm just sitting around

doing nothing and get a red-hot streak of electric pain in my collarbone... 22 years later. The nerves in that

part of the body do freakish things. When my elation over Stoner's victory quieted down and I re-watched

the race and then the after-race stuff on the podium and in the interview room - I really felt bad for Pedrosa.

My gut feeling is it really was the injury that kept him from beating back Lorenzo. Dani was fighting better

than we've ever seen him - but he was let down by the injury.

Lebowski said:

I'm going to stick my neck out. I like Pedders and would not write him off yet. He will be very, very fast at Jerez. Whether that is enough to beat Stoner and Lorenzo, who knows. Put Puig aside and I can't imagine what it is that makes so many dislike him (apart from knocking Nicky off but surely that was not deliberate and should be forgiven by now - also not his fault Honda chose to develop around him and not Nicky).



He has had some horrendous injuries, raced with them and been fast. He doesn't carry on, comes across as shy but FFS this is racing, not a personality contest. Hope the arm issue gets sorted and it will be 3 way battles at the front.

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A fellow Pedrobot supporter! Where have you been?



Agree with everything you said. Far too early to write him off just yet.

From Motomatters.com press releases:



12th Héctor Barberá: "It was a difficult race for us. I wasn't riding comfortably right from the start, and I had realised that the bike wasn't working entirely as it had been yesterday. I had noted this in the warmup. I didn't understand what had happened, but all I knew was that there was no rear grip. I had to hold off the gas, because if I went into the corners at speed then I would slide about. It made me angry that all my braking points were changing about, and I wasn't able to ride the same way that I had done all weekend. We are looking at the origin of this problem, and the telemetry shows that the bike wasn't performing like it had done this weekend. We shouldn't get too down about it, because we just had some bad luck that is sure to change for the better in Jerez. I will look on the bright side; we were doing very well over the past few days and are gradually finding the way to go this season."



Now the conspiracy theorist in me started ring bells when I read this. Does anyone else think that Barbera had his TC messed with so he did not beat Ducati's lead rider?

eltoro said:

I don't get why people are hyping Super Glue, has anyone noticed how his old Ten Kate teammate Pirro is adjust better than he is?

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Perhaps Pirro was smarter by taking the better ride............





















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Mental Anarchist said:

From Motomatters.com press releases:



12th Héctor Barberá: "It was a difficult race for us. I wasn't riding comfortably right from the start, and I had realised that the bike wasn't working entirely as it had been yesterday. I had noted this in the warmup. I didn't understand what had happened, but all I knew was that there was no rear grip. I had to hold off the gas, because if I went into the corners at speed then I would slide about. It made me angry that all my braking points were changing about, and I wasn't able to ride the same way that I had done all weekend. We are looking at the origin of this problem, and the telemetry shows that the bike wasn't performing like it had done this weekend. We shouldn't get too down about it, because we just had some bad luck that is sure to change for the better in Jerez. I will look on the bright side; we were doing very well over the past few days and are gradually finding the way to go this season."



Now the conspiracy theorist in me started ring bells when I read this. Does anyone else think that Barbera had his TC messed with so he did not beat Ducati's lead rider?

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.... no! jesus christ...this forum is going to .... with ........ like this

Mental Anarchist said:

From Motomatters.com press releases:



12th Héctor Barberá: "It was a difficult race for us. I wasn't riding comfortably right from the start, and I had realised that the bike wasn't working entirely as it had been yesterday. I had noted this in the warmup. I didn't understand what had happened, but all I knew was that there was no rear grip. I had to hold off the gas, because if I went into the corners at speed then I would slide about. It made me angry that all my braking points were changing about, and I wasn't able to ride the same way that I had done all weekend. We are looking at the origin of this problem, and the telemetry shows that the bike wasn't performing like it had done this weekend. We shouldn't get too down about it, because we just had some bad luck that is sure to change for the better in Jerez. I will look on the bright side; we were doing very well over the past few days and are gradually finding the way to go this season."



Now the conspiracy theorist in me started ring bells when I read this. Does anyone else think that Barbera had his TC messed with so he did not beat Ducati's lead rider?

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Read my lips; "there will be no walls at Ducati! We dont need to, because we speak ITALIAN!!!!!!"



Jum got it right when he said; Nicky has now become a professional personal TESTER. His results are of no consequence. While Nicky remains Rossi's teammate, his career as a contender is over. Of this there is NO DOUBT; les anybody forget exactly why Valentino has abandoned Yamaha and moved to Ducati, because of the audacity of the Japanese maker to give their riders equal treatment--something unacceptable and unconscionable in the mind of Rossi. 'Nicky Hayden has become a PAWN in the life of Valentino Rossi.'--Jumkie circa 2010



I'll also add, this means all Ducati rider is now the official test mules for #46.











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Mental Anarchist said:

From Motomatters.com press releases:



12th Héctor Barberá: "It was a difficult race for us. I wasn't riding comfortably right from the start, and I had realised that the bike wasn't working entirely as it had been yesterday. I had noted this in the warmup. I didn't understand what had happened, but all I knew was that there was no rear grip. I had to hold off the gas, because if I went into the corners at speed then I would slide about. It made me angry that all my braking points were changing about, and I wasn't able to ride the same way that I had done all weekend. We are looking at the origin of this problem, and the telemetry shows that the bike wasn't performing like it had done this weekend. We shouldn't get too down about it, because we just had some bad luck that is sure to change for the better in Jerez. I will look on the bright side; we were doing very well over the past few days and are gradually finding the way to go this season."



Now the conspiracy theorist in me started ring bells when I read this. Does anyone else think that Barbera had his TC messed with so he did not beat Ducati's lead rider?

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Anythings possible, but it happens in racing all the time. Something that feels good one day, can be .... the next day in the race. Weather conditions were different for the race compared to Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Who knows, but it sounds good that the call came down from headquarters to back it down.

Here are my thoughts on the riders:



1. Stoner - Job done. Solid ride. Nice racecraft. Never thought I'd see the day when he cruised to a 3 second win rather than storming to a 15 second win.

2. Lorenzo - Mastercraft. Probably the best that bike could possibly have achieved.

3. Pedrosa - Turn the wick down. The bike can't make it to the line without fuel shutdown.

4. Dovi - Whatever, he's getting the Hayden treatment, I'm sure

5. Simoncelli - 6' 155lb (160lb with the fro). I wish I could have seen him on a 990 with 24L or 22L. The 800cc 21L formula can't be helping this guy.

6. Spies - Underwhelming start to his Fiat Yamaha career. Terrible start.

7. Rossi - His Ducati development is worse than last year's bike, but he did show a lot of determination. First turn dive bomb was entertaining.

8. Edwards - About as good as can be expected when he's outgunned by 6 Hondas and 2 factory Yamahas

9. Hayden - Needs to get his setup dialed in and his brain dialed in or he needs to go to WSBK.

10. Aoyama - I expected a lot more from this kid after his form in testing.

11. Crutchlow - Long road ahead.

12. Hector Barbera - Nobody pays attention to him so he should keep riding like he's got nothing to lose.

13. Abraham - Mike Hailwood? Nope, but he did finish his first race in the points



DePuniet - Karma is still catching up to him

Capirossi - don't know how bad the hand is, but he looked like a tired old man who didn't want to ride

Elias - WSBK

Mental Anarchist said:

From Motomatters.com press releases:



12th Héctor Barberá: "It was a difficult race for us. I wasn't riding comfortably right from the start, and I had realised that the bike wasn't working entirely as it had been yesterday. I had noted this in the warmup. I didn't understand what had happened, but all I knew was that there was no rear grip. I had to hold off the gas, because if I went into the corners at speed then I would slide about. It made me angry that all my braking points were changing about, and I wasn't able to ride the same way that I had done all weekend. We are looking at the origin of this problem, and the telemetry shows that the bike wasn't performing like it had done this weekend. We shouldn't get too down about it, because we just had some bad luck that is sure to change for the better in Jerez. I will look on the bright side; we were doing very well over the past few days and are gradually finding the way to go this season."



Now the conspiracy theorist in me started ring bells when I read this. Does anyone else think that Barbera had his TC messed with so he did not beat Ducati's lead rider?

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Not sure. I was one of the first people to say that Ducati ripped Alex Barros' head off when he beat Casey Stoner at Mugello back in 2007. Everyone said I was crazy. Then he confirmed that the factory team had some very strong words for him after Mugello, and Barros suspected that developments ceased in the second half of the season b/c of that pass.. Ducati have an established history of black-balling people, and let's be honest, they are Italians to the core--politics isn't everything, it's the only thing.



That said, it could actually be down to the fuel computer. According to most of the scuttlebutt I've read about fuel computers, when the bike thinks it may not make the finish, it softens the power curve and turns TC off b/c cutting the spark wastes fuel. They don't usually run the fuel computers during the practice sessions unless they are doing race sims. Furthermore, Barbera's bike was a missile at Qatar so his bike was burning a lot of fuel on the straights.



It is possible, if not plausible, that the engineers turned the fuel computer on for warm-up, and Barbera experienced the actual capabilities of his bike for the first time all weekend. He was fast at the beginning of the race, then he was nowhere. The bike was a rocket ship in a straight line. Everything is consistent with fuel-management issues, imo.

mylexicon said:

3. Pedrosa - Turn the wick down. The bike can't make it to the line without fuel shutdown.

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Hard to tell with the arm issues at the end but I thought Stoner did a great job on suckering Pedrosa into sticking with the 'rich' fuel map. With hindsight it looks like Stoner could have passed and gapped him earlier than he did but sat on Pedrosa's tail and saved his own fuel instead. There was no way Pedrosa was going to just let Stoner by because the fuel plan told him to, he's too much of a racer for that. Again with the wishful thinking - if Pedrosa had just let Stoner by and saved his arm and fuel he would have had a real shot at holding off Lorenzo.



I'd really, really like to know how comfortable Stoner was with fuel and how many laps he spent on the 'lean' map. Barring some radical improvement in either Pedrosa's arm or Lorenzo's horsepower this year is going to be a walkover unless Lorenzo can get Stoner into fuel trouble at the twisty tracks.

mylexicon said:

Not sure. I was one of the first people to say that Ducati ripped Alex Barros' head off when he beat Casey Stoner at Mugello back in 2007. Everyone said I was crazy. Then he confirmed that the factory team had some very strong words for him after Mugello, and Barros suspected that developments ceased in the second half of the season b/c of that pass.. Ducati have an established history of black-balling people, and let's be honest, they are Italians to the core--politics isn't everything, it's the only thing.



That said, it could actually be down to the fuel computer. According to most of the scuttlebutt I've read about fuel computers, when the bike thinks it may not make the finish, it softens the power curve and turns TC off b/c cutting the spark wastes fuel. They don't usually run the fuel computers during the practice sessions unless they are doing race sims. Furthermore, Barbera's bike was a missile at Qatar so his bike was burning a lot of fuel on the straights.



It is possible, if not plausible, that the engineers turned the fuel computer on for warm-up, and Barbera experienced the actual capabilities of his bike for the first time all weekend. He was fast at the beginning of the race, then he was nowhere. The bike was a rocket ship in a straight line. Everything is consistent with fuel-management issues, imo.

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Seems plausible.

The stuff about the honda fuel map sounds eminently plausible and is consistent with past events.



I don't think ducati has ever really had fuel problems before, and their strong power with good fuel economy, secondary to their electronics and possibly the desmo valves has always been touted as an advantage, to the extent that there was a conspiracy theory that stoner was carrying an extra litre in the fuel lines or fuel overflow in 2007.



I don't see any need for a conspiracy theory with regard to barbera, rossi had comfortably better and more consistent race pace than him. Weight and possibly engine mapping changes in the hope of making the factory bikes more tractable can explain the top speed differences. Setting up of the recent ducatis whatever else is going on has been a hair trigger exercise, and changeable conditions with this (stupid imo) night race can explain changes in the bike's behaviour.

michaelm said:

The stuff about the honda fuel map sounds eminently plausible and is consistent with past events.



I don't think ducati has ever really had fuel problems before, and their strong power with good fuel economy, secondary to their electronics and possibly the desmo valves has always been touted as an advantage, to the extent that there was a conspiracy theory that stoner was carrying an extra litre in the fuel lines or fuel overflow in 2007.



I don't see any need for a conspiracy theory with regard to barbera, rossi had comfortably better and more consistent race pace than him. Weight and possibly engine mapping changes in the hope of making the factory bikes more tractable can explain the top speed differences. Setting up of the recent ducatis whatever else is going on has been a hair trigger exercise, and changeable conditions with this (stupid imo) night race can explain changes in the bike's behaviour.

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Agree. Stoner wasn't happy with the grip he was getting during warm-up. Change the time/night and you have dramas. Why do you think people expressed concern about the 125 and Moto2 "warm up" being on a different night?

I 'm on holiday these days, and managed to see the race only today.

Stoner impressed me no ends, not so much for his speed that we all know already, but for the intelligence he used in managing the race. He was great, did just what was needed, did not rush it in the first laps. This is the racing of a world champion.



Lorenzo is not going to hand him the crown though -- great race for him too, he was capable to insert his solitary Yamaha in front of all Hondas but Stoner's.



Pedrosa does not complain much, but his physical problems were evident in the end. He might also have been a little demoralized by the way Stoner passed him and inflicted him 1.2 seconds in less than two laps, the moment he decided to go.



SImoncelli's only problem is probably his weight, otherwise he would have been a podium contender for sure in this race.



Dovi -- where will he go next year?



Rossi -- not so bad. Holding off a fighter like Spies for most of the race, on "his" Yamaha, was something. And had he pulled off that fast start, he would have been with Dovi and Sic. Still I think he is not going to fight for podiums until the second half of the season.



The others, more or less as expected... Nicky could have done better probably, but a bad start spoiled his race.

michaelm said:

I don't think ducati has ever really had fuel problems before

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Imo, the circumstances at Qatar were not "normal" enough to use history as a guide. Hector Barbera goes well around Qatar so it's not unusual to see him at the top of the time sheets or as the top Ducati. However, this weekend, Barbera had the fastest average top speed (top 5 max speeds) in every single session. In most sessions he was 2-3kph clear of the field, but in the race he was nearly 5kph faster than everyone and roughly 6-7kph better than his fellow Ducati riders.



It was an uncharacteristically dominant display of top speed. Imo, that kind of top speed generally comes with fuel consequences. I agree that conspiracy is unlikely, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hector's uncommon top speed performance advantage caused uncommon problems for his bike.

Some good summaries & opinions on this thread. Well the last page or so anyway.

How long until it is ruined by a "my rider is better than your rider" type post?



I thought most of the race went as we expected or close to it.



Stoner won but had to fight for it. The fact he broke the race lap record directly after putting the pass on Dani makes me think he had some in reserve.

Lorenzo - Was stoked with 2nd & rode a terrific race. Very talented rider. Still title favourite in my book.

Pedrosa - Was fighting hard until the halfway mark, but even before that was only lapping mostly in the 1.56's - Arm & shoulder will need to be managed quickly.

Dovi - Getting bunted wide by Simoncelli dashed his hopes for a podium. But I thought he was pretty good considering his qualifying pace.

Simoncelli - Fast but still over the top with his passing maneuvers. Needs to be more patient & set them up a little.

Spies - Good race pace but a poor start screwed his night. Lorenzo will be a tough nut to crack for him as a team mate.

Rossi - Fantastic start. If he had braked just a little earlier at turn one he may have landed in 2nd position. Race pace wasn't too bad & would be relatively pleased.

Hayden - Considering he got tangled up in De Puniets error and was last, he did a fair job to come through the field. Needs to find pace on the Duc & quickly though. Qualify higher & avoid the backmarkers.



All up not a bad first race for 2011

Certainly could have been far worse

Roll on Jerez. Though it's very unfortunate for Bautista, it will be nice to see Hopper out there again.

[quote name='Mental Anarchist' timestamp='1300667489' post='270375']

Dani. When you get broken mentally all the aches and pains are worse. He lost and dropped back because he has been mentally beaten already. The arm is no more than an excuse and a popular one at that.



read a few posts that say pretty much the same thing about dani



great rider very fast BUT



there is always a BUT



and i think that post says it all