moto2 2012

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I thought it was a great race.

Gutted for Luthi I really thought he had timed it well. Unsure over the Marquez pass, would have liked an overhead shot but did look on the dangerous side.

Good to see Crazy Joe mixing it so early in the season.

Redding did a good job considering where he started, but what happened to Bradley? He went forwards to go backwards. I hope he can improve!

All in all I really enjoyed what I saw.

Roll on 3 weeks time
<
 
....... Marquez deserves a 10 second penalti, some PLEASE give Ezpeleta a re-run of how they ...... Zarco's race end for doing the same exact thing.



But nooooooo, Maquez is a Spanish Carmelo ............



Not fair.
 
Settle down Dave. Watch the two incidences again.



Zarco and Terol were out of the last corner and parallel on the far left side of the straight. Zarco makes an intentional move to his left while sticking his elbow out and not giving any room for Terol to go.



Marquez/Luthi incident is at the end of the straight where Marquez has the inside line. Marques breaks as late as possible for him to turn into the right hander. That is his job/duty as a racer. He does not make any extra effort to push Luthi out, all Marquez does is hold his line.



I just watched the Zarto/Terol incident on Youtube. I don't think it has anything to do with Dorna or Spain. Much more to do with an intentional and obvious dirty move.
 
I seem to recall an incident at turn 1 of Valencia last year, in moto2, involving Sofuoglu. One rider was on the outside in the braking zone, got squezed out, off the track and crashed, no action was taken. It does sometimes happen. It is a shame this time it happend to Luthi, I'm sure if it'd been Iannone none of us would even be talking about it. Lets not be rash and start complaining about any borderline incident until we have an F1 like level of steward interference spoiling the racing. I think this is not a case of favourable treatment to a well funded Spanish rider but a disproportionate amount of critisism from people who resent success.
 
A very exciting race!



I found a few moves by Marquez a bit too aggressive, like the one on Iannone and hoped to see a revenge from Iannone, but while the one on Luthi looked more aggressive, i dont know if the riders have any right to put themselves at the mercy of their rivals in these kind of situations and then expect not to be pushed out. Luthi put himself on a line which was going to end, so he should have done something before that end point or to brake earlier. Though i dont have any problems with hard moves, after all they aren't riding for fun.
 
.... no guys, Baturro use the Energy web page to check out the incident.



You can easily see how Marc's weels go to the limit off the piano, forcing Luthi completely of track into the piano.



And please don't let any of our TV guys brain wash you, i even say more. the fact that they think it was a legal move is enough for you to think otherwise.



O eres de los que se creen todo lo que dicen por la tele? o mejor dicho....Nieto. Que también mucha mucha tela.



Too bad i can't make the sounds he makes during re-transmissions here on the forum, eeeeeerg AAAAArg aaaaah eeeeeeeh Mira mira....AAAAARG. Eh! EH! EH! EH! AAAAARg....PERIO ESTE AUSTRALIANO DE QUE VA!! Que se ha creido este Luthi!!!! Sanción!!!!



You can't say i'm wrong.....
 
BTW you can't hit the brakes while someone is still semi-behind you, once he had space to react you can see how he hits the brakes and loses control on the piano.



Not fair.
 
I wish it was possible to mute the new spanish commentators on TV5, and just listen to the track noise. They are horrid. Just because they have Red/Yellow/Red tinted glasses doesn't mean I do. It is just not a illegal move to come on the inside of someone, outbreak him into a corner and pass him. The fact that Luthi runs out of track is because the track veers to the right at that section and someone, Marquez, is occupying that space on the track. Again, that is what all competitive racer should and will do. Especially last lap. Luthi should have been occupying that space on the track, or at least blocking the entrance to the corner. It's called race-craft. Luthi got a lesson on it.
 
Tom said:
I think this is not a case of favourable treatment to a well funded Spanish rider but a disproportionate amount of critisism from people who resent success.
Click to expand...



People do not resent success. People resent success that they believe is unearned or undeserved. Marquez showed up in Moto2 with Repsol. His sponsors paid Suter to abandon their customers and focus on Marquez. As a result, Suter has alienated quite a few popular riders like Simon and Redding, thus Marquez and Suter alienated quite a few fans. Then the fans are forced to watch a race with spec engines and no rider-bike combined minimum weight (unheard of in motorsport). Naturally, Marquez drives right by the opposition as if he has an additional 15hp. On top of that, he makes sloppy overtaking maneuvers against other teams who can neither afford to throw bikes into the spare parts bin nor suffer artificially poor results.



None of this is Marquez fault, but it gives his career an ignoble shroud, and makes him a very easy person to hate. Like a yuppie getting an M3 for his birthday, and then terrorizing everyone on the road with his obscenely sloppy driving. In racing, such behavior is legal if not advantageous, but no one will ever admire it.
 
His success is earned and deserved. He is from Cervera in the Lleida region of Catalunya near the Alcarras circuit. His family put the effort in getting him into the position he is now by sacrificing the weekends like many racing families do. Spending holidays and vacation time on the kids racing prospects. Marquez does not come from a racing family, such as Gibbernau, Roberts, Nieto and ROSSI. These 4 grew up around tracks and I am sure their last name opened doors for them constantly and without hesitation.



Marquez showed great talent at a young age, had a family that supported him 100% and was fortunate to be born in Spain. Motorcyle racing mad country with sponsors willing financially back his career. He does not have a rich uncle Repsol, or daddy Abraham with his own international circuit. He was just a kid with all the right things going for him at the right place and the right time. I'm jealous of the kid!! But I see it as his family sacrifice that put him there, sorry he is no M3 driving Yuppy, far from it.
 
I'll give you that, he's no M3 yuppie and i respect that big time but he's a wreckless dangerous ....... once he get's a hold of his handle bars. I also respect his speed but i will never respect his ways once he's in race mode.



He has showed many times he is NOT a conscious rider, he's crazy.



He torpedoed 3 riders(one of them being Bradl i think, but he could just pull up the bike to avoid disaster) last year and crashed other several times, this year first race he does a in my opinoin very doubtfull overtaking. If what you say about the strait slightly bending to the right is true, then i'll have to give in. Forcefully.



But he still didn't give a damn and he didn't really tell off Luthi when he complained because he knew it wasn't for granted. He had it comming.
 
baturro said:
His success is earned and deserved. He is from Cervera in the Lleida region of Catalunya near the Alcarras circuit. His family put the effort in getting him into the position he is now by sacrificing the weekends like many racing families do. Spending holidays and vacation time on the kids racing prospects. Marquez does not come from a racing family, such as Gibbernau, Roberts, Nieto and ROSSI. These 4 grew up around tracks and I am sure their last name opened doors for them constantly and without hesitation.



Marquez showed great talent at a young age, had a family that supported him 100% and was fortunate to be born in Spain. Motorcyle racing mad country with sponsors willing financially back his career. He does not have a rich uncle Repsol, or daddy Abraham with his own international circuit. He was just a kid with all the right things going for him at the right place and the right time. I'm jealous of the kid!! But I see it as his family sacrifice that put him there, sorry he is no M3 driving Yuppy, far from it.
Click to expand...



Metaphors work best if they are not taken literally. I don't care if the kid was born of immaculate conception in a stable. When you show up with Repsol, and you have a bespoke Moto2 chassis built to your specifications, and you enjoy a sizable performance advantage b/c of your diminutive stature, and you ride sloppily; the world is not really going to assign a great deal of value to your existence.



Some of it is beyond Marquez' control, but a majority of the way people perceive him is within his control.



I don't personally dislike Marquez for any reason, but I think he has everything a boy could ask for in the GP paddock, and he needs to win his Moto2 title without causing problems or making a fool of himself. Barging Luthi, whether on purpose or on accident, was never going to accomplish anything other than hanging a storm cloud over his reputation and his 2012 Moto2 campaign.
 
mylexicon said:
Metaphors work best if they are not taken literally. I don't care if the kid was born of immaculate conception in a stable. When you show up with Repsol, and you have a bespoke Moto2 chassis built to your specifications, and you enjoy a sizable performance advantage b/c of your diminutive stature, and you ride sloppily; the world is not really going to assign a great deal of value to your existence.



Some of it is beyond Marquez' control, but a majority of the way people perceive him is within his control.



I don't personally dislike Marquez for any reason, but I think he has everything a boy could ask for in the GP paddock, and he needs to win his Moto2 title without causing problems or making a fool of himself. Barging Luthi, whether on purpose or on accident, was never going to accomplish anything other than hanging a storm cloud over his reputation and his 2012 Moto2 campaign.
Click to expand...



If Marquez is not deserving of a major sponsor then no rider is, he has been a stand out talent and an exciting rider to watch as he has risen from his time on KTM to where he is now. having a bespoke chassis built to his specifications is just a negative twist on the idea of him being a leader and development focus, considering the fact that he was clearly the best rider Suter had last year and their only realistic shot at a title that position is understandable, if there is a gripe to be had it is with Eskil Suter, not the guy getting the job done convincingly. Bradley Smith has a bespoke chassis built to his specifications, as did Stephan Bradl last year (arguably at the expense of the Pons team). Marquez's stature offers certain advantages, but it also has its drawbacks and they were clearly highlighted several times last year. The small rider/straight line advantage thing can be discussed all day without a convincing conclusion in either way. I will concede that Marquez rode a sloppily in this race by the standards we have come to expect from him, he is usually pretty clinical. But let's not forget that he is naturally a bit rusty considering the long recovery he has undergone from last year, it is impressive that he managed to win the first race with so little track time under his bealt. I know he isn't immune to mistakes, but this a junior class and he is still a young rider, he is not the first up and coming superstar to make mistakes like this and he will not be the last.



You say that people don't resent success they resent success they feel is undeserved, that would be quite a reasonable position if the reasons for believing it is undeserved were well founded. In this case it seems they are based in a bitterness that in principle cannot be rationalised. To suggest his success in Ignoble is fairly disrespectful of what it takes to be successful in motorsport at this level, and your comparison of him to a yuppie suggests a stance of jealousy/envy based on an unrealistic notion of equality, fairness and entitlement
 
Tom said:
If Marquez is not deserving of a major sponsor then no rider is, he has been a stand out talent and an exciting rider to watch as he has risen from his time on KTM to where he is now. having a bespoke chassis built to his specifications is just a negative twist on the idea of him being a leader and development focus, considering the fact that he was clearly the best rider Suter had last year and their only realistic shot at a title that position is understandable, if there is a gripe to be had it is with Eskil Suter, not the guy getting the job done convincingly. Bradley Smith has a bespoke chassis built to his specifications, as did Stephan Bradl last year (arguably at the expense of the Pons team). Marquez's stature offers certain advantages, but it also has its drawbacks and they were clearly highlighted several times last year. The small rider/straight line advantage thing can be discussed all day without a convincing conclusion in either way. I will concede that Marquez rode a sloppily in this race by the standards we have come to expect from him, he is usually pretty clinical. But let's not forget that he is naturally a bit rusty considering the long recovery he has undergone from last year, it is impressive that he managed to win the first race with so little track time under his bealt. I know he isn't immune to mistakes, but this a junior class and he is still a young rider, he is not the first up and coming superstar to make mistakes like this and he will not be the last.



You say that people don't resent success they resent success they feel is undeserved, that would be quite a reasonable position if the reasons for believing it is undeserved were well founded. In this case it seems they are based in a bitterness that in principle cannot be rationalised. To suggest his success in Ignoble is fairly disrespectful of what it takes to be successful in motorsport at this level, and your comparison of him to a yuppie suggests a stance of jealousy/envy based on an unrealistic notion of equality, fairness and entitlement
Click to expand...



I didn't say Marquez doesn't deserve sponsorship. I said he has a major sponsor who has cleared all obstacles (other than competing riders), and he has a sizable performance advantage. Therefore, he needs to stop griefing other riders and get on with his business. Last year, everyone said he is only a rookie. Now, he's rusty from lack of testing due to double vision. He's just classless, and no one on his team has talked any sense into him.



Furthermore, I grew up as a teenager with a silver spoon. I was given a lot, and I was told not to make an ass of myself. That is my realistic expectation for Marquez. He has everything now, and he doesn't need to ride like a douche. He just needs to win his championship and move along.



Marquez isn't even a good bad-boy. Iannone is quite harsh. He's predictably harsh. Marquez is inexplicably harsh at time. Qatar is a perfect example. Sit up in the draft all night, but then make a pass (probably legal) that nearly wrecks another competitor. He's either crazy or he rides this way b/c the Spanish guru tell him its the only way to make the Italian seaside boys back off. Naturally, the seaside boys are a bit difficult to mess with, and quite menacing on their machines, so Marquez goes after the mild-mannered Swiss and Germans?
 

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