Motegi 2010 Moto GP...

J4rn0 · Oct 7, 2010

BarryMachine said:
.....................

Jrno's 2cm "pass" is a bit of a gem too, J4rno is even having trouble hiding the spots a bit in this one.

..........................

There you go. 2 inches? Whatever, fact is you are out of focus again, Mr. Barry... I see your are grasping at what you can, but here 2 cms or 2 inches do not make any difference. The point was and is a different one.

You (and others) apparently think that this famous photo where we see Rossi in the dirt is the moment he passed Stoner.... Wrong, he had passed Stoner already, in the first part of the corkscrew. So also all the objections about illegal pass etc. are void and we can understand why race direction did not sanction Rossi. Rightly so.

Maybe refresh your memory,

http://www.motogp.com/it/videos/2008/Rossi+Stoner+Laguna+Seca+2008+battle

It's a great show anyway, for one reason or another it is always worthwhile watching it again

BarryMachine · Oct 7, 2010

I'd give it 20 -30cm and as to your take on whether or not it was illegal:

"Magical because it was incredibly risky; illegal because Vale's enthusiasm saw him put both wheels beyond the curbing, and into the dirt, meaning he should have given the position back as per the rules. The FIM didn't take any position in those cases. President Ippolito, where were you and your men?"

http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/news/35-in-evidenza/2050-lorenzo-rossi-il-sorpasso.html

It will go on to eternity if you wish

The only quantitatve thing we have, points, still puts Stoner in front at the Stoner v's Rossi v's corkscrew equation

J4rn0 · Oct 7, 2010

BarryMachine said:
I'd give it 20 -30cm and as to your take on whether or not it was illegal:

"Magical because it was incredibly risky; illegal because Vale's enthusiasm saw him put both wheels beyond the curbing, and into the dirt, meaning he should have given the position back as per the rules. The FIM didn't take any position in those cases. President Ippolito, where were you and your men?"

http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/news/35-in-evidenza/2050-lorenzo-rossi-il-sorpasso.html

It will go on to eternity if you wish

The only quantitatve thing we have, points, still puts Stoner in front at the Stoner v's Rossi v's corkscrew equation

Barry, spare me an eternity of this,

but still you are avoiding to focus on the point I made: Vale passed Stoner before putting the wheels in the dirt, he passed him on the track; so the pass was legal. Answer to this if you want to answer, rather than grasping at the centimeters or inches

-- had Rossi passed Stoner in that moment, 2 cms or 200 would not make a difference; but he was already in front, open your eyes, just watch the blessed video... http://www.motogp.com/it/videos/2008/Rossi+Stoner+Laguna+Seca+2008+battle

Tom · Oct 7, 2010

J4rn0 said:
Barry, spare me an eternity of this,

but still you are avoiding to focus on the point I made: Vale passed Stoner before putting the wheels in the dirt, he passed him on the tarmac; so the pass was legal. Answer to this if you want to answer, rather than grasping at the centimeters or inches

-- had Rossi passed Stoner in that moment, 2 cms or 200 would not make a difference; but he was already in front, open your eyes, just watch the blessed video... http://www.motogp.com/it/videos/2008/Rossi+Stoner+Laguna+Seca+2008+battle

Sureley you understand the concept that Rossi may not have been able to make the pass had he slowed down enough to follow the circuit like the other riders

michaelm · Oct 7, 2010

Tom said:
Sureley you understand the concept that Rossi may not have been able to make the pass had he slowed down enough to follow the circuit like the other riders

He knew that conceding the corner would cost him the race, and it seemed at the time possibly the championship, and overcooked it somewhat in his desperation to stay ahead. Not a move anyone would plan though, as the usual result would be the bike down or possibly into the fence as I believe there is something of a slope.

BarryMachine · Oct 7, 2010

Tom said:
Sureley you understand the concept that Rossi may not have been able to make the pass had he slowed down enough to follow the circuit like the other riders

Exactly ...... why bother with many a chicane J4rno

apart from the risks involved

I always wonder why they bother to do the chicane before the straight at Assen, I'm sure I could find a better desperation line, but how long till I was flagged for it

I once went in a huge enduro charity ride near Bathurst in Australia, it turned into more of a huge laugh a minute fun ride mainly cos the moves being pulled along the way were just like Rossi's mistake at Laguna 08. Some of the "lines" got so bad that I overtook one local rider 5 times and kept wondering how I was always catching the same guy, it was only when he wasn't fast enough and I saw him pull out of the bush after one of his shortcuts that I realised what the game was. Sure its a bigger shortcut, but he didn't stay within the marked route

But it also included a lot of corner marker cutting when things got tight and folks realised it was all a bit of fun, not a real race

J4rn0 · Oct 7, 2010

Tom said:
Sureley you understand the concept that Rossi may not have been able to make the pass had he slowed down enough to follow the circuit like the other riders

Here, Tom, we go really into to the realm of speculation. Stoner leaning on him is in my opinion the main cause for him going out of track; you say it was excessive speed, but that conflicts with the fact that he did NOT crash, after all. Whatever, this is speculation. Rules can apply only to facts. The fact is he was already in front when that happened, so the pass was not only beautiful and daring, but perfectly legal.

BarryMachine · Oct 7, 2010

J4rn0 said:
Here, Tom, we go really into to the realm of speculation. Stoner leaning on him is in my opinion the main cause for him going out of track;

You are losing it a bit there J4rno

That one really is a bit of a physical impossibility, besides the "leaning on" occurred after the off track excursion

LittleEgg · Oct 7, 2010

I still think rossi ultimately would have won the race with or without the corkscrew fiasco....imo.

There was a lot of race left.

Didnt stoner crash at 2mph.....with a lot of race left?

Also agree with this quote:

"Rules can apply only to facts. The fact is he was already in front when that happened, so the pass was not only beautiful and daring, but perfectly legal."

michaelm · Oct 7, 2010

J4rn0 said:
Here, Tom, we go really into to the realm of speculation. Stoner leaning on him is in my opinion the main cause for him going out of track; you say it was excessive speed, but that conflicts with the fact that he did NOT crash, after all. Whatever, this is speculation. Rules can apply only to facts. The fact is he was already in front when that happened, so the pass was not only beautiful and daring, but perfectly legal.

A reasonable amount of mutual leaning upon in the lead-up, I thought, which is not necessarily a problem . I do have trouble with the concept of a rider being forced off the track to the inside by a rider behind and inside him. Not good race-craft by stoner though, and famous race-craft by rossi for the remainder of the race.

J4rn0 · Oct 7, 2010

BarryMachine said:
You are losing it a bit there J4rno

That one really is a bit of a physical impossibility, besides the "leaning on" occurred after the off track excursion

It was a physical impossibility, you say.. Yet it was DONE. When you say Rossi could not have made that pass without subsequently going out of track, you are speculating. Fact is he 1) made the pass before the apex then 2) managed to stay upright at the apex also going into the dirt with Stoner leaning on him etc. and 3) exited the corner keeping the position he had gained while entering it. Illegal you say?

Had Stoner not leaned on Rossi, Rossi would probably not have gone into the dirt, but would have most probably gone wide. This is why Schwantz commented that Stoner, rather than leaning on Rossi, should have conceded the pass, allow Rossi to go wide, and come out of the corkscrew in front. Amen, for eternity

BarryMachine · Oct 7, 2010

J4rn0 said:
It was a physical impossibility, you say.. Yet it was DONE. When you say Rossi could not have made that pass without subsequently going out of track, you are speculating. Fact is he 1) made the pass before the apex then 2) managed to stay upright at the apex also going into the dirt with Stoner leaning on him etc. and 3) exited the corner keeping the position he had gained while entering it. Illegal you say?

Had Stoner not leaned on Rossi, Rossi would probably not have gone into the dirt, but would have most probably gone wide. This is why Schwantz commented that Stoner, rather than leaning on Rossi, should have conceded the pass, allow Rossi to go wide, and come out of the corkscrew in front. Amen, for eternity

Well you keep believing what you want, its not making you any smarter though

I still think it was one of the sloppiest bits of riding ever seen in MGP

michaelm · Oct 7, 2010

Rob said:
I still think rossi ultimately would have won the race with or without the corkscrew fiasco....imo.

There was a lot of race left.

Didnt stoner crash at 2mph.....with a lot of race left?

Sure, his simple and stupid error, presumably the result of frustration induced by rossi legitimately picking exactly the right line to block every subsequent passing opportunity ultimately cost him any chance. The other remarkable thing was that rossi found a lot after qualifying since he actually got past stoner in the first place after stoner led from the start, and any time stoner got ahead momentarily after that he never let it stick. I think if stoner had got ahead coming out of the corkscrew, on that particular part of the track he would have been gone though, hence rossi's absolute act of will that the corner would not be conceded.

LittleEgg · Oct 7, 2010

J4rn0 said:
It was a physical impossibility, you say.. Yet it was DONE. When you say Rossi could not have made that pass without subsequently going out of track, you are speculating. Fact is he 1) made the pass before the apex then 2) managed to stay upright at the apex also going into the dirt with Stoner leaning on him etc. and 3) exited the corner keeping the position he had gained while entering it. Illegal you say?

Had Stoner not leaned on Rossi, Rossi would probably not have gone into the dirt, but would have most probably gone wide. This is why Schwantz commented that Stoner, rather than leaning on Rossi, should have conceded the pass, allow Rossi to go wide, and come out of the corkscrew in front. Amen, for eternity

povol · Oct 7, 2010

BarryMachine said:
I'd give it 20 -30cm and as to your take on whether or not it was illegal:

"Magical because it was incredibly risky; illegal because Vale's enthusiasm saw him put both wheels beyond the curbing, and into the dirt, meaning he should have given the position back as per the rules. The FIM didn't take any position in those cases. President Ippolito, where were you and your men?"

http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/news/35-in-evidenza/2050-lorenzo-rossi-il-sorpasso.html

It will go on to eternity if you wish

The only quantitatve thing we have, points, still puts Stoner in front at the Stoner v's Rossi v's corkscrew equation

2cm, 6-7 inches, what does it matter when you building lore and fairytale.Again, i had no problem with the move, but the embellishments are hysterical. Rossi cut the course, came back on the course , hit Stoner and made the pass. It took me back to Alex Zanardi's move in Indy car.Probably should have been penalized, but was such a unbelievable move it was allowed to stand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB_k_wlr5Bc

Keshav · Oct 7, 2010

J4rn0 said:
Barry, spare me an eternity of this,

but still you are avoiding to focus on the point I made: Vale passed Stoner before putting the wheels in the dirt, he passed him on the track; so the pass was legal. Answer to this if you want to answer, rather than grasping at the centimeters or inches

-- had Rossi passed Stoner in that moment, 2 cms or 200 would not make a difference; but he was already in front, open your eyes, just watch the blessed video... http://www.motogp.com/it/videos/2008/Rossi+Stoner+Laguna+Seca+2008+battle

Come on. Enough already. The pass was ..... If he couldn't complete the pass while remaining on the track

it's not a legitimate pass. Just because Dorna's people shirked their duty to enforce the rules - all the boppers

have taken this move to be one more sign of Rossi's ascendancy to one of god-like status, above petty considerations

of little things like rules and regulations that all the other riders respect. The whole thing was MGP politics as usual.

You can say what you want - but those with objective minds and clear vision will never be convinced that this was

a legit pass.

LittleEgg · Oct 7, 2010

michaelm said:
Sure, his simple and stupid error, presumably the result of frustration induced by rossi legitimately picking exactly the right line to block every subsequent passing opportunity ultimately cost him any chance. The other remarkable thing was that rossi found a lot after qualifying since he actually got past stoner in the first place after stoner led from the start, and any time stoner got ahead momentarily after that he never let it stick. I think if stoner had got ahead coming out of the corkscrew, on that particular part of the track he would have been gone though, hence rossi's absolute act of will that the corner would not be conceded.

I'm actually suprised that rossi managed to stay ahead after the corkscrew, having dirt all over his rubber.

It was amazing though, wish it had gone on a lot longer.

LittleEgg · Oct 7, 2010

Keshav said:
but those with hateful minds and bias vision will never be convinced that this was

a legit pass.

LittleEgg · Oct 7, 2010

Keshav said:
but those with objective minds and clear vision will never be convinced that this was

a legit pass.

Seriously though...Schwantz?

Interesting he is on your favourites list.

Keshav · Oct 7, 2010

J4rn0 said:
Here, Tom, we go really into to the realm of speculation. Stoner leaning on him is in my opinion the main cause for him going out of track; you say it was excessive speed, but that conflicts with the fact that he did NOT crash, after all. Whatever, this is speculation. Rules can apply only to facts. The fact is he was already in front when that happened, so the pass was not only beautiful and daring, but perfectly legal.

Oh ....... please.

If his speed were not excessive - he would have stayed on the track

and never made the pass. If you can't see the connection between the two you're in the worst denial

I've ever come across.

Motegi 2010 Moto GP...

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

J4rn0

BarryMachine

J4rn0

Tom

michaelm

BarryMachine

J4rn0

BarryMachine

LittleEgg

michaelm

J4rn0

BarryMachine

michaelm

LittleEgg

povol

Keshav

LittleEgg

LittleEgg

LittleEgg

Keshav

Similar threads

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions