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J4rn0 said:




There you go. 2 inches? Whatever, fact is you are out of focus again, Mr. Barry... I see your are grasping at what you can, but here 2 cms or 2 inches do not make any difference. The point was and is a different one.



You (and others) apparently think that this famous photo where we see Rossi in the dirt is the moment he passed Stoner.... Wrong, he had passed Stoner already, in the first part of the corkscrew. So also all the objections about illegal pass etc. are void and we can understand why race direction did not sanction Rossi. Rightly so.



Maybe refresh your memory,

http://www.motogp.com/it/videos/2008/Rossi+Stoner+Laguna+Seca+2008+battle



It's a great show anyway, for one reason or another it is always worthwhile watching it again
<
Click to expand...





Great photo......

Its about the highlight of this shitfight !!!!
 
Keshav said:
Come on. Enough already. The pass was ..... If he couldn't complete the pass while remaining on the track

it's not a legitimate pass. Just because Dorna's people shirked their duty to enforce the rules - all the boppers

have taken this move to be one more sign of Rossi's ascendancy to one of god-like status, above petty considerations

of little things like rules and regulations that all the other riders respect. The whole thing was MGP politics as usual.

You can say what you want - but those with objective minds and clear vision will never be convinced that this was

a legit pass.
Click to expand...

You forget who we are dealing with here.
 
Rob said:
Seriously though...Schwantz?
Click to expand...



Who says Schwantz is objective? It's pretty well known that he doesn't like Stoner.

Just because he's a great racer doesn't mean everything he says is right. Doohan

Gardner and Mamola regularly make asinine statements to the press.
 
Keshav said:
Who says Schwantz is objective? It's pretty well known that he doesn't like Stoner.
Click to expand...



Interesting point you bring up there, I'm keen to see if Shwantz's attitude toward Stoner changes in the near future if/when Stoner overtakes Shwantz in GP wins. I noticed it with Gardner too, he used to seem somewhat "non-objective" about Stoner until it became clear Stoner was going to overtake him in GP wins
<




I'll be watching Shwantz when things get closer
<
 
Keshav said:
Who says Schwantz is objective? It's pretty well known that he doesn't like Stoner.
Click to expand...



Its like anyone here dismissing other members points because they dont like rossi. You'd call it rubbish, and then go on to suggest that schwantz doesnt like stoner?



Has he ever said he doesnt?



Or is it because his comments would suggest he doesnt, because they dont fit with your theories?
 
Rob said:
<
<
<
Click to expand...



If you're going to edit my posts at least be unoriginal as others who have done this in the past

and use the "Fixed it for yah" cliche.
<




Boppers and Republicans - both intellectually bankrupt. They never let a little thing like facts get

in the way - and when they threaten to do so - try to re-write history. How typical.
 
Keshav said:
If you're going to edit my posts at least be unoriginal as others who have done this in the past

and use the "Fixed it for yah" cliche.
<




Boppers and Republicans - both intellectually bankrupt. They never let a little thing like facts get

in the way - and when they threaten to do so - try to re-write history. How typical.
Click to expand...



Keshav said:
but those with objective minds and clear vision will never be convinced that this was a legit pass.
Click to expand...



Rob said:
Seriously though...Schwantz?
Click to expand...





Biter....
 
michaelm said:
He knew that conceding the corner would cost him the race, and it seemed at the time possibly the championship, and overcooked it somewhat in his desperation to stay ahead. Not a move anyone would plan though, as the usual result would be the bike down or possibly into the fence as I believe there is something of a slope.
Click to expand...



Oh i agree, i don't think he planned to go on the dirt, he simply went in too fast and managed to get away with it.



J4rn0 said:
Here, Tom, we go really into to the realm of speculation. Stoner leaning on him is in my opinion the main cause for him going out of track; you say it was excessive speed, but that conflicts with the fact that he did NOT crash, after all. Whatever, this is speculation. Rules can apply only to facts. The fact is he was already in front when that happened, so the pass was not only beautiful and daring, but perfectly legal.
Click to expand...



I will give you credit for being smarter than you would seem based on your account of this incident.
 
J4rn0 said:
It was a physical impossibility, you say.. Yet it was DONE. When you say Rossi could not have made that pass without subsequently going out of track, you are speculating. Fact is he 1) made the pass before the apex then 2) managed to stay upright at the apex also going into the dirt with Stoner leaning on him etc. and 3) exited the corner keeping the position he had gained while entering it. Illegal you say?
<




Had Stoner not leaned on Rossi, Rossi would probably not have gone into the dirt, but would have most probably gone wide. This is why Schwantz commented that Stoner, rather than leaning on Rossi, should have conceded the pass, allow Rossi to go wide, and come out of the corkscrew in front. Amen, for eternity
<
Click to expand...

It was obviously a racing incident and not illegal. My interpretation of schwantz's comment was that it was remarkable that rossi had won the race which should have been impossible, presumably because his bike wasn't fast enough, perhaps that it was remarkable he kept the bike upright at the corkscrew, and that if stoner had possessed the presence of mind to back off he could subsequently have disappeared into the distance as rossi slewed across the track, not that stoner had pushed rossi off-line, but perhaps I am wrong. I would also have some trouble in having your view of the corkscrew "non-pass " and simultaneously holding the concept that sete gibernau left a gap and got what he deserved for trying to block rossi in the last corner pass.



Still, in terms of this thread only 2 incidents I can really think off, one of which I am contending was a brilliantly saved semi-lose rather than unfair.
 
Rob said:
Its like anyone here dismissing other members points because they dont like rossi. You call it rubbish, and then suggest that schwantz doesnt like stoner?



Has he ever said he doesnt?



Or is it because his comment would suggest he doesnt, because they dont fit with your theories?
Click to expand...



My problem with Rossi isn't so much Rossi as it is his "Parents" - ie: Dorna and all the other people and organizations

that that have enabled his spoiled brat behavior because their pocketbooks are so strongly attached to

his participation in the sport. If Dorna had spanked him over the Giberau incident instead of looking the other way he might

have grown up to be a responsible adult. But he continues to be a spoiled brat throwing tantrums whenever he doesn't get

his way.



As to anyone's objectivity - it's crystal clear. Rossi broke the rules by making a pass that was only made possible by

leaving the track. Nobody with functioning cognition can deny this. It's black and white and not really open to "interpretation".

Doesn't matter if one corrupt Dorna official turns his back on it or if 100 corrupt Dorna officals turn their back on it - it doesn't

change the reality.
 
Keshav said:
If you're going to edit my posts at least be unoriginal as others who have done this in the past

and use the "Fixed it for yah" cliche.
<




Boppers and Republicans - both intellectually bankrupt. They never let a little thing like facts get

in the way - and when they threaten to do so - try to re-write history. How typical.
Click to expand...

How dare you compare a bopper to a Republican. Its those damn Dems who have delusions of grandeur and try to control debate with fairytales
<




My guess would be 75-80% of Rossi fans vote Democrat.
<
 
povol said:
How dare you compare a bopper to a Republican. Its those damn Dems who have delusions of grandeur and try to control debate with fairytales
<




My guess would be 75-80% of Rossi fans vote Democrat.
<
Click to expand...



Knew that would bring you out of the woodwork.
<
 
Keshav said:
Good impartial replies by Rainey, the essence of which was, the racing seemed reasonably fair - ....

happens in the heat of the moment - and Yamaha was right to back the rider they've selected as their

contender for the championship.
Click to expand...

Yes, despite the interviewer trying to bait his own bias through the article.
 
Keshav said:
Come on. Enough already. The pass was ..... If he couldn't complete the pass while remaining on the track

it's not a legitimate pass. Just because Dorna's people shirked their duty to enforce the rules - all the boppers

have taken this move to be one more sign of Rossi's ascendancy to one of god-like status, above petty considerations

of little things like rules and regulations that all the other riders respect. The whole thing was MGP politics as usual.

You can say what you want - but those with objective minds and clear vision will never be convinced that this was

a legit pass.
Click to expand...





This sounds like a political statement -- no facts given, just your personal beliefs, and dividing the world in good and bad guys.
<


So this should be answered in a political way... Here is my statement:

"I am happy to remain in the company of many excellent people who have commented that episode (as well as more recent ones -- practically all the great champions from Agostini to Schwantz). If their minds are not clear nor objective on these matters (at least according to you) then I prefer 1,000 times to remain obfuscated just as they are!"
<
 

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