Motegi 2010 Moto GP...

Talpa said:

Funny thing, when Stoner barged up on the inside on Rossi in Germany, questionable-certainly based on the rubbish in this thread, not for me though I thought it was a great move. Rossi was on the losing end and still said it was fun..........shame Jorge has lost his cool and reverted back to his old ways-losing does funny things to some......

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yes, i dont remember anyone (Rossi fans and haters) who said it was only for 3th place in Germany. now the haters (especially those who their favs haven't done a good job in this gp), say it was only for 3th place. Mr slave was waiting and wishing the whole year for a podium finish for Hayden and now at once a podium is become pfpfpfpf.

michaelm said:

This is a very salient point; as tom says they all complain when they lose , even rossi .



This is all the more reason why lorenzo's post-race complaint and particularly his involvement of yamaha is strategically stupid, particularly given that he knew the reaction to stoner's complaint, who imo had more reason to complain (which is different to saying complaining was a good idea). This will be used by sections of the media as a stick with which to beat jorge with from now on, especially if you include internet forums in the media.



Jorge also went beyond complaining that some of rossi's passes were too hard, which is possibly arguable, to essentially saying rossi should have conceded the place and asking yamaha to back him on that point. Given that pedrosa could not take points from him in this race and that his and rossi's finishing order was immaterial to the manufacturer's championship I can only assume he considered rossi should concede to him because he is the number 1 rider, which some might consider a little rich.

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+1

povol said:

In this case, you are wrong. If Rossi was still in the championship, i would agree. He has the duty as a paid employee of Yamaha Racing to do anything in his power to guarantee success, even if it means checking in his enormous ego at the gate. I have no problem with that kind of racing, i do have problem with that kind of racing between teammates when one is eliminated from the championship and thinks he has a point to prove.Rossi let his self infatuation get in the way of common sense. If he isnt really careful, Yamaha could give him a going away present, such as a specially tuned bike that is capable of 10th place so he cant pitch his tantrums at the front

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bullsh, you are only crying, because Rossi won the battle. Otherwise you would have been jumping up and done. you talk, like you are a share holder at Yam, if so you better say those things to Yamaha bosses.

povol said:

Agreed, he should never have believed a word Rossi said.

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what about Hayden's pass on Horhay in last gp? Horhay didn't found that a legal and fair move. since i chacked your comments in that last gp, and you never mentioned (bitched) about it at all. and by the way you had found that 3th place of Hayden a good result, why isn't it a good result this week? I know you love to hate Rossi, that will give you more pain and that's what you like. so enjoy it.

rossiofsky said:

bullsh, you are only crying, because Rossi won the battle. Otherwise you would have been jumping up and done. you talk, like you are a share holder at Yam, if so you better say those things to Yamaha bosses.

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nobody ever said anything about stoners pass at sachsenring because it was just good racing ,no unnecessary brawling across the track.



don't get me wrong i enjoyed motegi and i'm always delighted to see a good battle, rossi didn't even live up to my expectations and just shove lorenzo off the track but that was almost a clean pass :-O



the thing is just that you don't spread BS about "i'm doing everything i can to help yamaha" and then nearly taking their man out.



there was this other guy who took out his teammate and that nearly cost him the championship and everybody hates that midget...double standards?



really its the same thing again and again : someone arrives in the paddock and eventually gets good enough to challange or even beat rossi and automatically becomes the bad guy which makes it impossible for rossi fans to have clear view of what is going on. it's like debating evolution with right wing christians. it's not that they are bad people. it's just that their heads are filled with....

if rossi was the one that didn't race as wreckless as others everybody would whine and moan about lorenzo being too brutal on the track and take rossis side.



screw it ,this is getting exhausting

MdubSTYLIE said:

There is way to much debate going into the antics between Vale and Jorge. When really thats was just some good hardcore motogp racing. As someone said before, it takes two to tango. And Lorenzo obliged by pulling out his dance slippers. We all know Rossi is always ready for a dance.

They both were in total control of their bikes the whole time so I would not call it reckless(unlike a certain Laguna move or 05' Montegi 250cc for Jorge ). And team orders? .... team orders. Reason 1. Rossi has already put his two week notice in, so listening to that .... is over. 2. Beside Lorenzo didn't need 3rd to accomplish anything toward the title, he just needs to stay up and collect points. So you mean to tell me yamaha is going to tell Rossi that no matter what position you are on the track to concede that position to Jorge? Not a chance in hell. Especially since it is unnecessary, and has no barring on the championship. If Jorge wants some help, he should dial up Ben on the phone. I heard no complaints from the peanut gallery after Nicky fired it up the inside of Jorge last week. The difference I seen is, Jorge didnt retaliate by trying to stick it around the outside at any cost in that situation. So I don't see any reason to blame Rossi in this one.

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+1



That's what i mean.

J4rn0 said:

"Complain"? That was asking for, and obtaining, something that was essential to be competitive, it was not "complaining" at all.

Lorenzo did not ask the same, he was hoping in MIchelin's comeback (as many others). Pedrosa obtained the Bridgestones during the season (and nobody criticized him for that...), when everybody realized what Rossi had seen since the previous year: that without the Bridgestones you couldn't win the championship any more. ... You call this complaining? I call it clarity. We discussed all this on this board already, read the old posts.

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If Rossi had one of his episodes of "clarity" and decided he had to change to another bike manufacturer mid-season - would

that be acceptable? All the other riders - no matter how much they wanted to be on the winning bike or tires - were professional

enough to honor the terms of the agreements with the companies that spent millions of dollars to sponsor them.



But Rossi got special treatment because he believes he's too fabulous to be bound by ethical considerations and contractual

obligations that other mere mortals were willing to honor.

even if they both crashed, colin would still be third, so same points for the manufacturer. for the team championship to be lost, i'd guess both fiats would have to dnf in the remaining races.. so all yamaha/jarvis say is stupid. plus, dani is unable to do anything, so there is no actual need for any worry for the riders championship



everyone talks about the 3rd-4th places though and not stoner or dovi so yamaha must be loving that despite saying they 'll try to avoid this happening again. besides they cant really do anything about that. since rossi leaves next year they cant say anything to him .. all they can do is try to persuade him to race until valencia.

povol said:

Im not really sure what some of you dont get about the title being more important than anything at this point. It

looks to me like Rossi is going to pack up and go home [ according to Krop] rather than risk Lorenzo's retaliation. He knows the next race will see Lorenzo ride safe to secure the title, then he can go about the business of ....... with Rossi's head for the next 3 races.Rossi's response is to run home and hide for the rest of the season. What a chicken .... mother ....... Lorenzo draws a line in the sand and god vanishes into the clouds. They sure dont make gods like they used to.

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Since when do you and some others have become so worry for the Yamaha championships? did you say the same things about Rossi's team mates when Rossi was at the hunt mr Slave? i dont think so. go play with mr Garrison.

rossiofsky said:

Since when do you and some others have become so worry for the Yamaha championships? did you say the same things about Rossi's team mates when Rossi was at the hunt mr Slave?

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Thats because Rossi made sure Edwards was under team orders to play nice

Tom said:

I'm sorry but i think Rossi and Yamaha have achieved a lot TOGETHER and should both be thankful to each other for what they have shared. Secondly i think Rossi started the ill feeling by behaving as though the teams actions should all benefit him, most recently when he lied about being prepared to help Jorge. thirdly i don't buy into the Rossi fan standard behaviour pattern of being bitter about any person or organization he divorces, i see no need to go bitcing about Yamaha or calling their behaviour disgusting, they have done exactly as they should.

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So easy it is to twist the words. Rossi said he was prepared to help Jorge if asked. Besides the person would need help before you can help him, Jorge doesn't seem like someone who need help right now, does he?

As far as the battle goes, I'm not sure if you have read the entire thread or if you are just getting in now, but i maintain that Rossi didn't make major errors or race unfairly. I'm not sure if you watched the battle though, because you say Lorenzo failed to escape from Rossi when he led for a few corners when in fact each of Lorenzo's passes was met with a re-pass and the very next turn.

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Ok pedant, at the most there were only one long turn after a fully completed pass before Rossi were able to do his final pass on Lorenzo. Thats one more than the next and one less than plural turns. Satisfied? My point stand; in no way did Lorenzo show any real advantage in speed, BUT he's learning and build speed though a couple of corners, pass his opponent where he is strong but doing so he compromise his own exit speed and loose the position again. Typical for an even fight. But Lorenzo just had to do everything possible to get through didn't he.

I'm not sure how much racing you watch, but if you've seen a few GP's at Motegi before you'll know that Lorenzo's pass was at a normal and legitimate passing place, although close he made the pass and had the line, but if you watch you can see Rossi lunge forward where a rider would normally concede the corner and force himself into a gap that wasn't really there and force both riders considerably off the racing line.

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Patronizing teenagers are always fun. You know better Tom but you look at the wrong places. I can only assume you talk about the hardest pass where they had a hard touch i the S's?

That's were I pointed out that in the process of defending his position Lorenzo went much wider into the s's, trying to block Rossi. It failed and even backfired when it wasn't enough space when Rossi again had the inside and they were going into the next turn. He took ti too far and at that time they both had compromised their entry line and even if it had been room for Lorenzo to slam it into the curve he would have missed the line by a mile. You did not see Rossi going wide to block just before when he was leading. All this is details and the only point I want to make is; that this is a two way battle where JLo is to blame at least as much as Rossi. Not only as the attacker but also by disguising his hard racing better than Rossi as it was just as "dirty".

That's what seperates Rossi from most other riders, he will not concede at any cost. In hindsight its not surprising that he would make Lorenzo's life as difficult as possible regardless of what he says or who his employer is. Valentino is obviously desperate to prove himself and get anything he can out of his most difficult season to date, it just goes to show how much harder he's having to work to stay competitive these days and how rattled his oponents have got him.

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His competetivnes has always been the highest in on the grid, that's what has kept him on the top year after year after year. I can not see that having changed one bit. Circumstances have but mostly down to his own injuries. Instead of your wishful thinking above, I guess a nicer way to describe Rossi would be that he never give up, and I agree in that. As so many others have pointed out, Lorenzo had everything to loose and one major thing to prove. Rossi had nothing to loose and everything to win and prove. Of course he would fight for the podium unless explicitly asked to help Lorenzo. The one looking desperate here are JLo risking it all for a single position in a single race. Winning over Rossi were suddenly more important than anything else. Stupid.

If anything, that's what Yamaha should have pointed out and maybe a combined warning to the two, because the riding were hard, perhaps too hard at the end of championship where Yamaha plan to wrap up both rider and manufacturers title.



To go out and criticizing mainly Rossi publicly will remain a dark spot on Yamaha's reputation for years to come. I cannot possibly understand why you insist that Yamaha just did what they should do?

Rob said:

Lets be honest yamaha should be kissing rossi's ... right now for what he's done at the team. If he hadnt taken a chance with yamaha originally where would they be now?



Probably mid table obscurity.



Besides i cannot fathom how people are maintaining that rossi was the dangerous irresponsible one here....maybe you all need to wacth the race again.



Also, even with your bias views you can see the responsibility ultimately fell with lorenzo both as title leader, and someone who didnt need the points. At least admit that much.



Lorenzo picked the softer front tyre.......this move made it clear his intentions from the start! Get in front of rossi early on and slow him up to ruin his chances of a win.



The lad wants it all ways, title, personal battle, and yamaha wrapped around his finger.



Well...two out of three aint bad

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History much? Ever heard of Agostini, Roberts, Rainey, Lawson, Fogarty etc et. al? Yamaha has a long history of world championship winning bikes with championships in '74, '75 '87, '88, 89, '90, '91, '93, '99, 2000, all without any help from Rossi. And those are just the premiere class championships. They've won many more in 125, 250 and 350cc classes. It's not like they were some poor abandoned orphan company that Rossi rescued from obscurity.



It's a two way street. in the end - it boils down to Rossi is an employee of Yamaha - who have not paid him millions of dollars - to sabotage their efforts to win the championship just for the sake of a public tantrum.

Babelfish said:

So easy it is to twist the words. Rossi said he was prepared to help Jorge if asked. Besides the person would need help before you can help him, Jorge doesn't seem like someone who need help right now, does he?

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Sophist rationalization much?

woody996 said:

You are right. I was ignoring his point. It was fun seeing him wind up and let go. My purchase choice comes down to a manufacturer I like, a bike/model I like and if it is Japanese, reliability (ducati is a choice of passion as it will rarely win if not never win in a bang for bucks context). I do have a view that yamahas and kawasakis are less reliable than a Honda or a Suzuki on the road. That's just from issues friends have had. I've always had a view that hondas are bulletproof and their gp bikes have been more unbreakable than the yamaha. Ultimately the reliability of a road bike is completely different to a highly strung prototype race bike so no you can't compare the two however I do see parallels at times.

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But yet after 10 years of owning nothing but Ducati's, a choice of passion as you say, you were looking at R1's why. Could it have to do with your passion of Rossi. I like Ducati's, think they are the sexiest sport bike out there, but would never own one because of the exorbitant price and reliability issue that my friends have had. Good thing for you Rossi went to Ducati, it would have been a shame to give up your passion.

Babelfish said:

So easy it is to twist the words. Rossi said he was prepared to help Jorge if asked. Besides the person would need help before you can help him, Jorge doesn't seem like someone who need help right now, does he?





To go out and criticizing mainly Rossi publicly will remain a dark spot on Yamaha's reputation for years to come. I cannot possibly understand why you insist that Yamaha just did what they should do?

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Lorenzo doesn't need help to win the title, but if he was to get hurt EVERYTHING would change. That is why Yamaha objected to the battle, the risk of Jorge getting hurt was far greater than it needed to be. I suspect they had a quiet word with Jorge too.



I will say again, Yamaha have done absolutely the right thing coming out in Lorenzo's favour. I think its really sad that Rossi fans are so fickle and flip flop as soon as Valentino decides to leave. I wish you would just read the thread because i've explained where i stand on all of this before.

Really guys make a thread dedicated to hating on the guy, where you can all give each other a pat on the back.



Face it boys your in a minority....that must really do your nut in.



Man if rossi acheives anything in red, some of this will be so fun to revert back to.

Keshav said:

If Rossi had one of his episodes of "clarity" and decided he had to change to another bike manufacturer mid-season - would

that be acceptable?

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What's the relevance? But I'll play ball anyway:

In that case he had to have a contract that allwoed him to change bike manufacturer anytime. Remember, he was without a tire contract when this came up.

All the other riders - no matter how much they wanted to be on the winning bike or tires - were professional

enough to honor the terms of the agreements with the companies that spent millions of dollars to sponsor them.

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And so were Rossi.

But Rossi got special treatment because he believes he's too fabulous to be bound by ethical considerations and contractual

obligations that other mere mortals were willing to honor.

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I know it's hard to take but in just about any Motorsport and most other sports the best end up with the best equipment. It's not "fair" but it's the way it is and every one inside the system accept that. About time you did too. It's in certainly not about what Rossi believed. What ever his thoughts were he got it right and got what he needed. Bu huu, cry me a river

Tom said:

Lorenzo doesn't need help to win the title, but if he was to get hurt EVERYTHING would change. That is why Yamaha objected to the battle, the risk of Jorge getting hurt was far greater than it needed to be. I suspect they had a quiet word with Jorge too.



I will say again, Yamaha have done absolutely the right thing coming out in Lorenzo's favour. I think its really sad that Rossi fans are so fickle and flip flop as soon as Valentino decides to leave. I wish you would just read the thread because i've explained where i stand on all of this before.

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So what your saying is this...



Bearing in mind lorenzo could finsh way further back than 4th for the remaining races, and still take the title with ease.....yet valentino is to blame for JORGE pushing for 3rd in motegi? when he had absolutely NO NEED.



Where is the damned logic here?



So what you and yamaha seem to be saying is that valentino should take responsibility for lorenzo's title?



If i makes a judgement at work and it backfires i dont blame the person next to me.



Absolutely absurd.

I must say of all this thread, the thing i find strangest is that some people seem to be putting up a defense against a load of 'hate' that isn't actually there. Almost everyone who's posted has said how much they enjoyed the battle and that they don't think any of the moves were unfair. It's quite funny really

Rob said:

So what your saying is this...



Lorenzo could come in way further back than 4th for the remaining races.....yet valentino is to blame for JORGE pushing for 3rd in motegi? when he had absolutely NO NEED.



Where is the damned logic here?



So what you and yamaha seem to be saying is that valentino should take responsibility for lorenzo's title?



Absolutely absurd.

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Learn to read, none of this is what i said. Maybe if you are lucky your accusations might fit someone else and they'll talk to you about it.