Motegi 2010 Moto GP...

povol · Oct 5, 2010

woody996 said:
Yes clearly you are right. Rossi is unendorsable and a marketing nightmare. In the past I have considered an r1. I will never do that again. I'm not the only person that would think that way.

So run out there and get you a 20,000 Ducati that has less performance and reliability than a 12000 R1. You will fit right in at Ducati Island with the other new Ducati posers, uh owners. Basing your purchasing decision on what some racer does, or does not ride is the epitome of a bopper. Grow up, it a business, or were you just considering an R1 because of Rossi.

dwoodhouse · Oct 5, 2010

povol said:
So run out there and get you a 20,000 Ducati that has less performance and reliability than a 12000 R1. You will fit right in at Ducati Island with the other new Ducati posers, uh owners. Basing your purchasing decision on what some racer does, or does not ride is the epitome of a bopper. Grow up, it a business, or were you just considering an R1 because of Rossi.

Exactly right. It is a business which is my point. Yamaha have not received good pr out of this. My original decision not to buy an r1 was made because I don't rate them and watching MotoGP has not shown me that they know how to do things. JB saved the day for them but each year they seem to be working against JB with the chattering in06, the low powered slug in07. Just enough improvement in 08 after Rossi threatened them etc. Would prefer a Honda if I was buying Japanese. Ducati is the way to go though. Not just some piece of souped up jap sewing machine. The only bikes I have owned in the last 10 years have been ducatis. Way before Rossi even considered going there.

povol · Oct 5, 2010

woody996 said:
Exactly right. It is a business which is my point. Yamaha have not received good pr out of this. My original decision not to buy an r1 was made because I don't rate them and watching MotoGP has not shown me that they know how to do things. JB saved the day for them but each year they seem to be working against JB with the chattering in06, the low powered slug in07. Just enough improvement in 08 after Rossi threatened them etc. Would prefer a Honda if I was buying Japanese. Ducati is the way to go though. Not just some piece of souped up jap sewing machine. The only bikes I have owned in the last 10 years have been ducatis. Way before Rossi even considered going there.

Hell dude, i didnt know you were going GP racing. Does it really matter to you what problems a GP bike has on track compared to street riding, or even an occasional track day. You do realize that the only thing resembling an R1 on a GP bike is the engine configuration. Thats like saying The GSXR 1000 is a ...... street bike because it sucks in GP. What about Yamaha's success in 2009 WSBK, i bet that caused all sorts of doubt in your purchasing decision. I can see you now in the showroom, what to do, what to do. Woody to salesperson, On one hand, this R1 dominated WSBK, but it had a chatter in the 06 GP bike. It did pretty well in AMA, but it was a little underpowered in the 07 GP, i will have to get back with you. Considering that maybe 1 % of sport bike riders can out perform a stock showroom bike, i wouldnt be basing my purchasing decision on a million dollar prototype with 100000 forks that chatter at speeds you only dream about.

yello13 · Oct 5, 2010

povol said:
Hell dude, i didnt know you were going GP racing. Does it really matter to you what problems a GP bike has on track compared to street riding, or even an occasional track day. You do realize that the only thing resembling an R1 on a GP bike is the engine configuration. Thats like saying The GSXR 1000 is a ...... street bike because it sucks in GP. What about Yamaha's success in 2009 WSBK, i bet that caused all sorts of doubt in your purchasing decision. I can see you now in the showroom, what to do, what to do. Woody to salesperson, On one hand, this R1 dominated WSBK, but it had a chatter in the 06 GP bike. It did pretty well in AMA, but it was a little underpowered in the 07 GP, i will have to get back with you. Considering that maybe 1 % of sport bike riders can out perform a stock showroom bike, i wouldnt be basing my purchasing decision on a million dollar prototype with 100000 forks that chatter at speeds you only dream about.

Since in your opinion he probably won't out perform the stock showroom bike, why is it such a big deal to you if he buys a ducati with "less performance and reliability", since it probably is enough for his abilities. He isn't going GP racing as you say, so why would performance even be at the top of his priority list?

What is wrong with purchasing a bike based off of one's favorite race team and manufacturer? Isn't that what being a fan is all about? Supporting something that may not be the best but doing so because one wants to?

I don't get your point.

dwoodhouse · Oct 5, 2010

povol said:
Hell dude, i didnt know you were going GP racing. Does it really matter to you what problems a GP bike has on track compared to street riding, or even an occasional track day. You do realize that the only thing resembling an R1 on a GP bike is the engine configuration. Thats like saying The GSXR 1000 is a ...... street bike because it sucks in GP. What about Yamaha's success in 2009 WSBK, i bet that caused all sorts of doubt in your purchasing decision. I can see you now in the showroom, what to do, what to do. Woody to salesperson, On one hand, this R1 dominated WSBK, but it had a chatter in the 06 GP bike. It did pretty well in AMA, but it was a little underpowered in the 07 GP, i will have to get back with you. Considering that maybe 1 % of sport bike riders can out perform a stock showroom bike, i wouldnt be basing my purchasing decision on a million dollar prototype with 100000 forks that chatter at speeds you only dream about.

Maybe I ride quicker than you...

two-stroke · Oct 5, 2010

Woody you are ignoring his point. GP bikes have .... all to do with their street bike cousins. In fact even racing superbikes have very little to do with their road going counterparts these days!

If you do base your bike choice on what a rider does, or how a manufacturers gp bike performs, then you are being foolish in my opinion. I would happily ride a Kawasaki or a Suzuki if I felt the bike was right for me, no matter how .... their gp bikes are who rides them. It's immaterial.

dwoodhouse · Oct 5, 2010

two-stroke said:
Woody you are ignoring his point. GP bikes have .... all to do with their street bike cousins. In fact even racing superbikes have very little to do with their road going counterparts these days!

If you do base your bike choice on what a rider does, or how a manufacturers gp bike performs, then you are being foolish in my opinion. I would happily ride a Kawasaki or a Suzuki if I felt the bike was right for me, no matter how .... their gp bikes are who rides them. It's immaterial.

You are right. I was ignoring his point. It was fun seeing him wind up and let go. My purchase choice comes down to a manufacturer I like, a bike/model I like and if it is Japanese, reliability (ducati is a choice of passion as it will rarely win if not never win in a bang for bucks context). I do have a view that yamahas and kawasakis are less reliable than a Honda or a Suzuki on the road. That's just from issues friends have had. I've always had a view that hondas are bulletproof and their gp bikes have been more unbreakable than the yamaha. Ultimately the reliability of a road bike is completely different to a highly strung prototype race bike so no you can't compare the two however I do see parallels at times.

babelfish · Oct 6, 2010

BarryMachine said:
Well the yellow Community is not "the rest of the world" to some

Get real

All I'm saying is that the picture look very different just about anywhere but here. And this place is according to some of you a "yellow Coummunity" stronghold. It just doesn't add up, does it? But as I said; keep on living is this bubble. No doubt you even have your own personal bubble protecting you from any logic or reality what so ever but that's a different discussion.

two-stroke · Oct 6, 2010

woody996 said:
You are right. I was ignoring his point. It was fun seeing him wind up and let go

I'm sure you wont be the last to do this to pov

Tom · Oct 6, 2010

double

Tom · Oct 6, 2010

Rob said:
To my knowledge nobody has been hospitalised/injured by getting caught up in a neck and neck race with rossi during his 14 year career....yet interestingly peope suffer injuries a lot more often running in practise on their lonesome.....unless someone corrects me on this, its a rather interesting factor.

Melandri got a footpeg through his ankle when Rossi took him down at Motegi 05

johnnyvvc said:
Plus he aint gonna beat Lorenzo at Estoril even when healthy let alone with a buggered shoulder & he dont like Valencia so whats to keep riding for,

You have disagreed with Povol's suggestion that Rossi is going for Surgery early because he knows he isn't going to win, yet you've written the very same thing in your reasons for him not to bother with the races

FACTORY said:
he can collect the needed points and take the title.....it is the smart thing to do to make sure he does secure the championship. The "I will race you real hard" after the fact is what is silly. Once he has the title....his hard racing is just like an exhibition race since there is no points risk for him any more.

Again I dont care if he races hard or rides easy....I just wish he would pick a side and stay with it (either hard ... racer or just run in safe mode). It is silly to hear him say he wants to race hard with Rossi....then complain that the racing was tough (although legal)....then say he will battle him the race after Sepang. For a guy who wanted to prove he could take it to Rossi all season and come out ahead.....he sure has an odd way of showing that.

Plus when has Rossi ever not tried for the win or the podium even when it is close to clinch time for the title?? Didn't he always push to get the best finish to get the points as soon as possible??

With a world title? I figured that was the most obvious way of showing it!

I don't see what your problem is, most riders play it safe to seal the title as soon as possible, Rossi did it last year.

michaelm · Oct 6, 2010

Tom said:
Melandri got a footpeg through his ankle when Rossi took him down at Motegi 05

One injury rather than none still probably leaves him as close to the safest rider in history statistically given the length of his career/number of races competed.

J4rn0 · Oct 6, 2010

michaelm said:
I had this thought myself; mind you rossi under current F1 (?and wsbk) rules would have had to give back the place he maintained by cutting the corkscrew at laguna seca 2008 (can't do a smiley on this computer).

Maybe. Certainly Rossi did not get any advantage out of that "cutting" by 2 (two) centimeters in the sand... But I can see that here we are interpreting the rules in a very formal way, ignoring the real reason of their existence (which is that by cutting you create a more advantageous line for yourself). Moreover, he did not pass Stoner by cutting -- he hit the sand when the pass was already initiated.

Rossi's detractors now are busy trying to find fault with him in any way -- like the Spanish press, that now is bringing up an imaginary "jump start" at Motegi. I saw the clip, he just moves his body, not the bike -- and again, anyway, certainly he did not get any advantage from doing that, on the contrary he spoilt his start completely.

All this reminds me also of that time Rossi had to start last at Qatar because Gibernau had complained about his team "rubberizing" his start position for the race. He then crashed in the race trying to return to the front. Rossi was so pissed for that episode. that Gibernau never won another GP again.

J4rn0 · Oct 6, 2010

Mr. Shupe said:
He didn't complain all year in '07 until an initially unwilling Bridgestone supplied him with tires (and not his team mate)?

"Complain"? That was asking for, and obtaining, something that was essential to be competitive, it was not "complaining" at all.

Lorenzo did not ask the same, he was hoping in MIchelin's comeback (as many others). Pedrosa obtained the Bridgestones during the season (and nobody criticized him for that...), when everybody realized what Rossi had seen since the previous year: that without the Bridgestones you couldn't win the championship any more. ... You call this complaining? I call it clarity. We discussed all this on this board already, read the old posts.

Tom · Oct 6, 2010

michaelm said:
One injury rather than none still probably leaves him as close to the safest rider in history statistically given the length of his career/number of races competed.

Oh definitely, i'm just being pedantic. On several occasions Rossi has been involved racing that goes what most would consider 'over the edge', but it cannot be a coincidence that Rossi stays on his bike almost 100% of the time and wins almost all of the time. When it comes to racing, he is the best.

Tom · Oct 6, 2010

J4rn0 said:
Maybe. Certainly Rossi did not get any advantage out of that "cutting" by 2 (two) centimeters in the sand... But I can see that here we are interpreting the rules in a very formal way, ignoring the real reason of their existence (which is that by cutting you create a more advantageous line for yourself). Moreover, he did not pass Stoner by cutting -- he hit the sand when the pass was already initiated.

Rossi's detractors now are busy trying to find fault with him in any way -- like the Spanish press, that now is bringing up an imaginary "jump start" at Motegi. I saw the clip, he just moves his body, not the bike -- and again, anyway, certainly he did not get any advantage from doing that, on the contrary he spoilt his start completely.

All this reminds me also of that time Rossi had to start last at Qatar because Gibernau had complained about his team "rubberizing" his start position for the race. He then crashed in the race trying to return to the front. Rossi was so pissed for that episode. that Gibernau never won another GP again.

I don't know how much F1 you watch but if you lunge inside someone to make a pass then can't make the turn and cut the corner it is a penalty on the basis that the pass was made by going too fast to actually follow the track. So applying F1 rules to Laguna 08 Rossi was cheating, but thanfully this is not F1.

As for the jumpstart, i don't think its imaginary at all as you can see the front wheel of his bike move. I am not a conspiracy theorist and have more faith in race direction than to miss a jump start from the front row so i can only imagine that Rossi's rear wheel didn't roll forward at all and that the movement in Rossi's bike was as you say, a result of him shifting his body.

LittleEgg · Oct 6, 2010

Keshav said:
willfully goes out of his way to behave in a fashion that is detrimental to goals of his main sponsor - Yamaha.

Lets be honest yamaha should be kissing rossi's ... right now for what he's done at the team. If he hadnt taken a chance with yamaha originally where would they be now?

Probably mid table obscurity.

Besides i cannot fathom how people are maintaining that rossi was the dangerous irresponsible one here....maybe you all need to wacth the race again.

Also, even with your bias views you can see the responsibility ultimately fell with lorenzo both as title leader, and someone who didnt need the points. At least admit that much.

Lorenzo picked the softer front tyre.......this move made it clear his intentions from the start! Get in front of rossi early on and slow him up to ruin his chances of a win.

The lad wants it all ways, title, personal battle, and yamaha wrapped around his finger.

Well...two out of three aint bad

Tom · Oct 6, 2010

Rob said:
Lets be honest yamaha should be kissing rossi's ... right now for what he's done at the team. If he hadnt taken a chance with yamaha originally where would they be now?

Probably mid table obscurity.

Besides i cannot fathom how people are maintaining that rossi was the dangerous irresponsible one here....maybe you all need to wacth the race again.

Also, even with your bias views you can see the responsibility ultimately fell with lorenzo both as title leader, and someone who didnt need the points. At least admit that much.

Lorenzo picked the softer front tyre.......this move made it clear his intentions from the start! Get in front of rossi early on and slow him up to ruin his chances of a win.

The lad wants it all ways, title, personal battle, and yamaha wrapped around his finger.

Well...two out of three aint bad

Firstly, Rossi is a Yamaha employee and he should be thankful for everything they have done for him, just as much as they should be thanking him. It's a two way street like any team.

As far as responsibility for the battle goes, i agree that Lorenzo was coming from behind so he could have called it off at any point. But if you look, Lorenzo was clearly faster and each of his passes on Rossi was clean and respectful and each was met with a considerably more risky and desperate re-pass.

Motrix · Oct 6, 2010

Tom said:
Firstly, Rossi is a Yamaha employee and he should be thankful for everything they have done for him, just as much as they should be thanking him. It's a two way street like any team.

As far as responsibility for the battle goes, i agree that Lorenzo was coming from behind so he could have called it off at any point. But if you look, Lorenzo was clearly faster and each of his passes on Rossi was clean and respectful and each was met with a considerably more risky and desperate re-pass.

Sure, he should be thankful to Yamaha but they need to thank Rossi much much more. He could have stayed at Honda like many past champions have done and he would have wrapped up the same amount of championships, if not more... Sure if he had done this, everyone would have said that he won only because he is on the best bike blah blah blah...we all know the story. He left Honda for Yamaha for a new challenge, he was sick of the Honda politics saying its the bike that is more important. Rossi went out the next season, and won straight up. He proved Honda wrong.

He has won everything there is to win, so clearly folks are jealous and sick of him winning.

Bottom line is Yamaha needs to thank Rossi bigtime, because without him they would have never won a championship...never. And today Lorenzo would maybe have been Rossi's teamate at Honda and not at Yamaha...

michaelm · Oct 6, 2010

Tom said:
I don't know how much F1 you watch but if you lunge inside someone to make a pass then can't make the turn and cut the corner it is a penalty on the basis that the pass was made by going too fast to actually follow the track. So applying F1 rules to Laguna 08 Rossi was cheating, but thanfully this is not F1.

There is a fairly good reason it is not the rule in motogp, in that going on to the grass on a motogp bike at any kind of speed usually results in the bike going down, as casey stoner himself would agree cf his recent comments regarding artificial vs grass run-off areas.

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