Motegi 2010 Moto GP...

J4rn0 said:

He apologized every time he made a mistake like that (two, three times in a 14-years career?). And he never complained when losing like he lost in the last corner to Gibernau at Sachsenring 2005, or to Elias at Estoril 2006, or to Capirossi when Capi won his first GP for Ducati (don't remeber where that was right now, but it was another battle - maybe Motegi itself, 2004). This year at Sachsenring he not only didn't complain to Stoner who made a contact with him, but did not even mention his physical condition as an excuse -- he said on TV, "he has beaten me". I see that you do not want to recognize the greatness of this rider, but that is your own problem.

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He didn't complain all year in '07 until an initially unwilling Bridgestone supplied him with tires (and not his team mate)?

povol said:

In this case, you are wrong. If Rossi was still in the championship, i would agree. He has the duty as a paid employee of Yamaha Racing to do anything in his power to guarantee success, even if it means checking in his enormous ego at the gate. I have no problem with that kind of racing, i do have problem with that kind of racing between teammates when one is eliminated from the championship and thinks he has a point to prove.Rossi let his self infatuation get in the way of common sense. If he isnt really careful, Yamaha could give him a going away present, such as a specially tuned bike that is capable of 10th place so he cant pitch his tantrums at the front

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Rubbish...



Even had lorenzo dropped his bike on this instance, with the amount of points he has, it wouldnt really make a difference now dani has missed this race(and potentially more)....furthermore if he dropped his machine and got injured, it would simply be his own fault as he has absolutely no need to scrap for chump change now he is so far ahead in points.



Besides if memory serves it was lorenzo who was chasing rossi for the biggest chunk of the race, and he is the one with everything to lose, not valentino.



It boiled down to lorenzo's unwillingness to accept 4th/defeat to rossi in light of being so far ahead on points.



Who then was the one lacking common sense?

DRILL said:

Absolutely Pigeon,its racing not a knitting contest !!!

.....who was it that said that?

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I thought it looked more like a knitting contest Like the Biaggi/Rossi feuds of yore

Mr. Shupe said:

That was a fun battle. When professional racers are in the process of negotiating the hierarchy of talent on the grid, lines will be blurred, things may even get ugly. This was about more than a points championship: Lorenzo wants to establish himself as the best. He is a competitor of the highest degree and can settle for nothing less than proving himself against the current king of the sport. Rossi missed out on the title fight due to his injury and the subsequent recovery process. Now that The Doctor seems to be feeling like his old self again, he wants to show everyone he isn't beaten yet; remember, even before Mugello many were saying Rossi had been eclipsed by his teammate. The battle of Japan was Rossi saying, "I'm still here."

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Unfortunately - "here" was 3rd place.

There is way to much debate going into the antics between Vale and Jorge. When really thats was just some good hardcore motogp racing. As someone said before, it takes two to tango. And Lorenzo obliged by pulling out his dance slippers. We all know Rossi is always ready for a dance. They both were in total control of their bikes the whole time so I would not call it reckless(unlike a certain Laguna move or 05' Montegi 250cc for Jorge ). And team orders? .... team orders. Reason 1. Rossi has already put his two week notice in, so listening to that .... is over. 2. Beside Lorenzo didn't need 3rd to accomplish anything toward the title, he just needs to stay up and collect points. So you mean to tell me yamaha is going to tell Rossi that no matter what position you are on the track to concede that position to Jorge? Not a chance in hell. Especially since it is unnecessary, and has no barring on the championship. If Jorge wants some help, he should dial up Ben on the phone. I heard no complaints from the peanut gallery after Nicky fired it up the inside of Jorge last week. The difference I seen is, Jorge didnt retaliate by trying to stick it around the outside at any cost in that situation. So I don't see any reason to blame Rossi in this one.

Keshav said:

Unfortunately - "here" was 3rd place.

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Yes, i wonder if he may have stayed with the other two if lorenzo hadnt slowed him down at the start?



In the after race interview he stated that he was glad to come out on top(of the scrap for 3rd), because jorge had held him up and "it cost him the race"



Would have been quite interesting.



That brings up another issue, vale being very poor in the first corner consistently these days.

Jumkie said:

U dismissed the alternative again.



Why dismiss their assessment so quickly? Just mayb some or all those rider comments wer right. If nobody crashes we say, u see, its all fair. Hell even when they crash we chalk it up to just another racing incident. But is it really? Of course the false argument is: we all want to see "close" racing, as if by categorizing all contact as simply close racing must therefore mean its magically fair. If u want to really champion for "close" but fair racing, pay special attention to Spies. Do urself a favor and look up WSBK 09 Assen race 1. That is a clinic in what is really "close" & "fair" racing.

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Thanks for pointing this out. This really crystallizes what it is I've been trying to get across about "close racing" that isn't

an over the top soccer-hooligan exhibiton. MGP is supposed to be ballsy and exciting and appealing to all us manly types -

but it's not a blood sport. I take exception to those who think the racing is namby-pampy if there's no trading of paint.

I'm not a hypocrite; I enjoyed those last few laps as much as anyone. But the fact remains that this standard of racing

is not something that can be maintained for long - without eventual catastrophic results. I for one don't have a need to

see MGP devolve into Demolition Derby.

For all the people bitching about the battle for 3rd place, I suggest you look at the point standings, for Rossi, 3rd was important. He's 3 points behind Dovi. So every point matters to him. I doubt he'll catch Stoner for 3rd in the championship, but to come in 4th after breaking your leg, not a bad result at all. So yeah Rossi needs those points much more than J-LO did. It was J-LO's ego that started the battle.

michaelm said:

(EDIT I am not sure why i am arguing this. I hope stoner smokes them both next year, and failing him spies)

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Hear hear!

J4rn0 said:

. I see that you do not want to recognize the greatness of this rider, but that is your own problem.

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Yer sounding more "born again" than ever.

Keshav said:

I for one don't have a need to see MGP devolve into Demolition Derby.

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lol.....a bit melodramatic dont you think.



Jorge should have shown more responsabiltiy.



No offense but its cynicism like this that will turn the sport in to an F1 like mess.

Rob said:

Yes, i wonder if he may have stayed with the other two if lorenzo hadnt slowed him down at the start?



In the after race interview he stated that he was glad to come out on top(of the scrap for 3rd), because jorge had held him up and "it cost him the race"



Would have been quite interesting.



That brings up another issue, vale being very poor in the first corner consistently these days.

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+1



I suspect he has problems going all out 100% into the first corner with cold tires right now. That's both because of the shoulder and his leg injury. I don't expect to see any remains of that hesitation next year. Quite the opposite I expect he will be a stronger starter than he has ever been.

Couldn't be arsed to read through 16 pages because non of you lazy twats could be bothered to make a RACE thread But its probably the normal .... from the haters like "rossi took points out of lorenzo bla bla bla he is a .... team mate bla bla bla" well thats the joy of the wall !



Cracking last few laps

Rob said:

lol.....a bit melodramatic dont you think.



Jorge should have shown more responsabiltiy.



No offense but its cynicism like this that will turn the sport in to an F1 like mess.

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Do you even understand the meaning of the word cynicism? What precisely is cynical

about a call for professionalism and clean passes? As a former endurance racer - with more

plated bones and fractured vertebra than most arm-chair racers - I know the difference between

what a serious fall looks like on TV and what it really amounts to in real life. To you it's all just

a drama played out on the flat-creen, but to the racers the reality is quite different.The sport isn't

dangerous enough for you? It's only satisfyingly "real" if racers go at each other until one falls and ends

up in the hospital? Whose being cynical?

Keshav said:

Do you even understand the meaning of the word cynicism? What precisely is cynical

about a call for professionalism and clean passes? As a former endurance racer - with more

plated bones and fractured vertebra than most arm-chair racers - I know the difference between

what a serious fall looks like on TV and what it really amounts to in real life. To you it's all just

a drama played out on the flat-creen, but to the racers the reality is quite different.The sport isn't

dangerous enough for you? It's only satisfyingly "real" if racers go at each other until one falls and ends

up in the hospital? Whose being cynical?

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I mean taking what happened at motegi and trying to suggest that you dont want it to go like "demolition derby"....



Its both melodramatic and cynical, and its this kind of approach which has made F1 a total shambles.



Of course just IMO.



Besides its pointless preaching about what injury you personally may have been through, i am pretty sure we all know that both valentino and jorge have both had nasty injuries in the past themslves.....did it stop either of them at motegi? and did one of them fall and end up in hospital?



In fact i cant remember an occasion where a rider has been hospitalised due to the actions of rossi and his agressive "demolition derby" style.....or even come close to it.

J4rn0 said:

Sorry Jumkie you are comparing apples with bananas, Rossi never changed his line trying to push the other guy out, once inside and passing. Elias did, and that is a nasty thing to do. Elias has been a dangerous rider a few year ago, for some time, remember how he took out Rossi in the first race of 2006. Rossi is not Barbera, or the young Elias, or young Simoncelli, or De Angelis. He can push the limit more than others, but he doesn't exceed it. If you are trying to suggest that Rossi complains just like Lorenzo when he loses, you are wrong again because he doesnt - he lost a hard battle with Stoner at Sachsenring this year and didn't complain. You may call me a bopper I dont care -- I am not, I just can tell who the best racer is because i've seen many

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All three of my quotes of riders were very similar, all claiming the basic same thing. I'm not calling you anything, your posts speak for themselves.



Casey Stoner:

"I have been racing for a long time and I have seen a lot of close overtaking passes. I have had them done on me, I´ve done them myself and there is close riding, aggressive riding and then the point that is a little bit over that line." Stoner's reaction after a racing exchange in which he lost with Rossi, Laguna Seca GP

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Jorge Lorenzo:

"I have to say that at some points I do not think he was completely fair, we were both on the limit but some of his moves were maybe a bit too much and he touched me and pushed me wide when I don't think it was right. Lorenzo's reaction after a racing exchange in which he lost with Rossi, Motegi GP

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Valentino Rossi:

"I'm quite unhappy with Elias today because I think he was quite dangerous - more than once he passed me on the inside and then altered his line. This is not a correct way to race." Rossi's reaction after a racing exchange in which he lost with Elias, Istanbul GP

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Jumkie said:

All three of my quotes of riders were very similar, all claiming the basic same thing. I'm not calling you anything, your posts speak for themselves.

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Exactly, obviously the one who lost won't be happy. Rossi would be complaining if he lost last weekend and Lorenzo would be happy

chopperman said:

Couldn't be arsed to read through 16 pages because non of you lazy twats could be bothered to make a RACE thread

But its probably the normal .... from the haters like "rossi took points out of lorenzo bla bla bla he is a .... team mate bla bla bla" well thats the joy of the wall !



Cracking last few laps

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Perhaps you can politely ask a mod to start a new thread titled Motegi RACE starting from post #111.



An yes, you've missed nothing, its as you gathered, its the "haters" vs the sublime wise.

Ngads said:

Exactly, obviously the one who lost won't be happy. Rossi would be complaining if he lost last weekend and Lorenzo would be happy

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Actually rossi did have a little moan in pac ferme. He stated to matt that lorenzo passed him at the start and held him back by 2 seconds letting stoner and dovi get away loosing him the race. That pass at the start by jorge on rossi was just as hard as the other passes two and throw towards the end of the race so yeah your right. winners are grinners and losers just pout and sob

Jumkie said:

Perhaps you can politely ask a mod to start a new thread titled Motegi RACE starting from post #111.



An yes, you've missed nothing, its as you gathered, its the "haters" vs the sublime wise.

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no point now, the damage is done. i did not get to see the race until 11.45pm