Motegi 2010 Moto GP...
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Sorry Jumkie you are comparing apples with bananas, Rossi never changed his line trying to push the other guy out, once inside and passing. Elias did, and that is a nasty thing to do. Elias has been a dangerous rider a few year ago, for some time, remember how he took out Rossi in the first race of 2006. Rossi is not Barbera, or the young Elias, or young Simoncelli, or De Angelis. He can push the limit more than others, but he doesn't exceed it. If you are trying to suggest that Rossi complains just like Lorenzo when he loses, you are wrong again because he doesnt - he lost a hard battle with Stoner at Sachsenring this year and didn't complain. You may call me a bopper I dont care -- I am not, I just can tell who the best racer is because i've seen many
Jum, a fair call in the above.
But may I also suggest that for good, hard (some would say ridiculously hard), yet fair racing many could do worse than watch videos of racing in the Lawson/Gardner/Schwantz/Rainey era with bit parts by Sarron et al. Many a time these guys raced so close that one could easily switch anothers bike off (were they on road bikes) yet rarely was there a collision of fairing and/or bodies.
One that really springs to mind was France, the old circuit where four riders diced race long only for Gardner to get away a lap or to out, but then for him to run out of fuel and finish down the pack. From memory his bike came back wit ha dented tank such was his frustration. It was a race of brilliance and close quarters and one far superior to many (maybe all) of the last few years.
Fark I miss that racing.
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Unfortunately Woody there has already been a lot of rigging of the results before they line up on the grid. But I agree with you that once the lights go out it would be great if they were allowed to use what they have to its maximum. Unfortunately though the reality is that it is a team sport and the rider is just one member of a very large team. Imagine if the guy who put the tyre warmers on decided that F the team I ain't turning them on today and the rider rolls out and high sides and losses points and a championship. Sure this is a lame comparison but a team is the sum of ALL its parts and requires all its members to do their job to achieve the teams result. It sounds like the result the team was working to on Sunday was helping Jorge to secure a title. Rossi as a part of Team Fiat Yamaha appears to have said FU I ain't playing my part for the team today.
I think that as a result of Sunday there is no way that Rossi will be testing the Ducati at Valencia so just maybe Jorge is having the last laugh.
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I think the team sport falls down where you have two equal number 1 riders as Lorenzo wanted. Rossi didn't sign a contract to be no. 2 so why should he concede.
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i didnt realise racing in a safe manner was a "team order"
The decision as to whether or not a place should be conceded is the team orders part.
Tell me, did you watch racing in the 80s and early 90s and think it was too rough?
Remember how Rossi took DePuniet out at Le Mans 06 in an almost idetnical scenario? Remember how Rossi recklessly took Melandri out at Motegi 05? He isn't perfect, he'd made mistakes just like the others, and he complains when he loses just like the others.
I think that as a result of Sunday there is no way that Rossi will be testing the Ducati at Valencia so just maybe Jorge is having the last laugh.
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Whether Rossi tests of not at Valencia will not change his competitiveness next year on the Duck.
Just as he and Burgess did after leaving Honda for Yamaha, they will do the same at Ducati. And at Ducati they have Preziosi to add to the mix.
Rossi once again brought the smack down on Porfuera, once again confirmed that on hte "corpo a corpo" he is the man to beat.
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Whether Rossi tests of not at Valencia will not change his competitiveness next year on the Duck.
Just as he and Burgess did after leaving Honda for Yamaha, they will do the same at Ducati. And at Ducati they have Preziosi to add to the mix.
Rossi once again brought the smack down on Porfuera, once again confirmed that on hte "corpo a corpo" he is the man to beat.
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The world is funny. Team orders are strictly banned in F1 now, and in that championship it is the statement issued by Yamaha that would be sanctioned with a heavy fine, as it equates with team orders. I will not comment on the hypocrisy of speaking of team spirit in a reality like MotoGP, where your "teammate" is proverbially considered your worst rival and your "team" is strictly the team that works on your bike. All this becomes almost ridiculous when we speak of Lorenzo at Motegi, who could have comfortably sat behind Rossi and did not need a few more points. But this is how biased judgement works
Regarding the Valencia testing I had already noted here that the attitude of Yamaha to Valentino has been obvious for some time now -- you behave with Lorenzo, and maybe we'll let you testing. But they should know their ex-champion better than that! He's not the type to accept any petty blackmail of that sort.
The last laugh, well, that has yet to be seen... The harder you push Rossi, the more he is motivated. Just as on track.
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He apologized every time he made a mistake like that (two, three times in a 14-years career?). And he never complained when losing like he lost in the last corner to Gibernau at Sachsenring 2005, or to Elias at Estoril 2006, or to Capirossi when Capi won his first GP for Ducati (don't remeber where that was right now, but it was another battle - maybe Motegi itself, 2004). This year at Sachsenring he not only didn't complain to Stoner who made a contact with him, but did not even mention his physical condition as an excuse -- he said on TV, "he has beaten me". I see that you do not want to recognize the greatness of this rider, but that is your own problem.
The gap was 69 as it stood before the dice if jorge settled for 4th. You are of course correct in absolute terms about another 3 points towards the championship, and your argument would be entirely incontrovertible if the 3 points gave jorge the championship on the day. But losing the championship for jorge is getting down to vanishingly small probabilities/possibilities, such that by the same argument he should probably avoid everyday activities associated with a small risk; dani has to score 70 more points than jorge from now on, it is not a case of jorge using dani's absence to score the points . I would have thought most things that would stop jorge from scoring 6 points next week would also stop him scoring 9 points, and if he does crash out for the season and dani miraculously returns at PI dani would have to win 2 out of 3 races and come second in the other.
As you say this is based on personal animosity, which jorge has made clear by broadening his attack post-race to not only rossi risking his (jorge's) championship (hard to dismiss in absolute terms as you argue if boring), but also to rossi's riding in the race being dirty (if so it looked fairly ...-for-tat to me), his riding previously having been dirty, and that he would have beaten rossi anyway if he was unencumbered. Apart from being self-serving to at least some degree, he has responded exactly as rossi would have hoped and whilst rossi is not immune to pressure as 2006 showed he thrives on personal animosity towards him from others, and is actively promoting it with lorenzo and stoner as he has with others in the past. Jorge has been suckered.
(EDIT I am not sure why i am arguing this. I hope stoner smokes them both next year, and failing him spies)
An interesting point you raise actually regarding the risks posed by what are deemed 'everyday' activities, one to be honest I had never really thought due to teh 'taken for granted' nature of these activities. I wonder if one does change things, patterns or behaviours outside of the sport within such circumstances or (like many sportspeople will claim) do they leave it so that their individual patterns are unchanged?
As an aside, as to the points gap at the time of the 'controversy', there is no doubt in my mind at all that with the championship in mind JL should have made one play, and were it to fail (as it did) then use discretion. He is after all in a position not so much to win the championship, but to lose it by one means or other.
Yep, animosity it was, is and I suspect will be as that is the vital motivator that many of these guys thrive on in order to excel and reach the giddying heights that these guys can achieve on two wheels. Without animosity many of these guys have no reason to want to beat their fellow competitors into a heaving pulp of loser remnants, be that real or imagined animosity it is a driving force.
Gaz
You aren't arguing at all, you are 'discussing with style' (to paraphrase Buzz Lightyear)
Gaz
He apologized every time he made a mistake like that (two, three times in a 14-years career?). And he never complained when losing like he lost in the last corner to Gibernau at Sachsenring 2005, or to Elias at Estoril 2006, or to Capirossi when Capi won his first GP for Ducati (don't remeber where that was right now, but it was another battle - maybe Motegi itself, 2004). This year at Sachsenring he not only didn't complain to Stoner who made a contact with him, but did not even mention his physical condition as an excuse -- he said on TV, "he has beaten me". I see that you do not want to recognize the greatness of this rider, but that is your own problem.
I don't disagree with any of the poitns you have made here, but none of them are relevant. Also if you could read you could see i quite clearly reckognise Rossi's greatness, in this thread, speaking in the context of him beating my favorite rider.
Has anyone official come out and said anything about the accusations that Rossi jumped the start? I find it hard to believe race direction would just miss it, but when i watched a replay you could easily see with the naked eye that Rossi moved. Interesting indeed
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Absolutely Pigeon,its racing not a knitting contest !!!
I had this thought myself; mind you rossi under current F1 (?and wsbk) rules would have had to give back the place he maintained by cutting the corkscrew at laguna seca 2008 (can't do a smiley on this computer).
