I can't believe people are complaining about scrappy racing, especially given how boring this season has been. We finally get a dogfight between the two guys everyone wants to see duke it out, nobody crashed, and people want to whine about who was being impolite?
Motegi 2010 Moto GP...
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So let me get this straight, when Rossi got past Lorenzo, he was 2.5 seconds behind, lost around .5 of a second per lap between laps 16-18, but made it back up in laps 19-21. If that is the case, the gap should have still been 2.5 seconds with 3 laps to go, right. How did Stoner end up beating Rossi by 5.7 seconds. In the last 3 laps, Stoner put 8/10ths on Rossi. Add that .8 to 2.5 and you get 3.3. Somewhere, in another dimension maybe, Stoner put 2.4 seconds on Rossi. I guess in the Rossi dimension, losing 2.4 seconds is holding pace.
And poor ole Hayden has him as a team mate next year
hayden is used to being a puching bag/patsy, no threat to rossi, so rossi wont even insist on a split garage. why fear someone who cant even podium on a regular basis?
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Just saw the race again. Stoner is amazing. Dovi, kept him honest all race. It was nice of them to make sure they removed the Danny stickers from his bike.
The Rossi vs Lorenzo exchange was interesting.
Spies mentioned he thought Loris applied the brakes early, but from the very limited screen shot, it looked somebody else was immediately in front of him. Anyway, he did well getting back on the track quickly.
Nicky, well I just knew it was a bad news weekend as soon as he mentioned they had found something that improved his pace. Its usually the kiss of death.
The Rossi vs Lorenzo exchange was interesting.
Spies mentioned he thought Loris applied the brakes early, but from the very limited screen shot, it looked somebody else was immediately in front of him. Anyway, he did well getting back on the track quickly.
Nicky, well I just knew it was a bad news weekend as soon as he mentioned they had found something that improved his pace. Its usually the kiss of death.
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Pinky,
Why is it a requirement for Rossi to be on the racing line to pass. By definition only one bike can be on that line at the same place at a point in time so therefore 100% of passes can only happen if the lead bike strays from the racing line or the second bike leaves the racing line to make a pass. It is first rider to cross the finish line not first rider to stay on the racing line past the finish line. Don't know what your beef here is?? Stoner won, got due credit and noone has said a bad word about that.
Some of us were happy to see a scrap and we are entitled to be happy too. Everyone was a winner in this race, stoner fans, Rossi fans and ... Ok that was an exaggeration, there are other riders and of course maybe Lorenzo fans weren't happy.
Why is it a requirement for Rossi to be on the racing line to pass. By definition only one bike can be on that line at the same place at a point in time so therefore 100% of passes can only happen if the lead bike strays from the racing line or the second bike leaves the racing line to make a pass. It is first rider to cross the finish line not first rider to stay on the racing line past the finish line. Don't know what your beef here is?? Stoner won, got due credit and noone has said a bad word about that.
Some of us were happy to see a scrap and we are entitled to be happy too. Everyone was a winner in this race, stoner fans, Rossi fans and ... Ok that was an exaggeration, there are other riders and of course maybe Lorenzo fans weren't happy.
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I didn't think Rossi had the pace for 1 or 2nd or else he would have made up 1.7 secs. I thought Rossi had more pace than Lorenzo but didn't have the physical strength/stamina to get away.
there is no requirement tobe on the racing line durrr.
point is rossi was over taken under the bridge, then rossi came back and barged horhey off the racing line, kamakaze haking at its best.. u see him purposed swerved into horhey, if u think that is fair racing then u must have fanboy glasses on.
similarly with the second pass at 1:10 .... look how wide rossi pushes horhey... angain rossi was about half a bike behind at this stage and just basically kept going straight on.
horheys moneuvers were clean, the retakes by rossi was just plain dirty.
lucky that yamaha is on rails otherwise we could of seen horney catapulted into the bridge and have 2 deaths in a year all for what?
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Ok, Lorenzo was in a safe 4th place, with the title basically in his pocket. He's a racer, so he wants to get onto the podium, and so goes for it, Rossi is also a racer so he decides that he will fight for position, after all, the championship is basically over. Rossi is leaving Yamaha, and is coming back to form, so why should he roll over for Jorge? It was Lorenzo who started the scrapping for position, so has to accept that a guy like Rossi is not gonna let him go past. It's racing. Get over it. We've had a season of boring processions and now folks are crying because there is a bit of paint swapping. Like someone has already said, this wasn't some desperate rookie going for stupid overtakes that were only gonna end in tears, but was 2 of the top bike racers in the world, each with his own point to prove, racing. personally, I think it is a good omen for some seriously good racing next year, a lot of guys gonna be out to prove a point on track, which has got to be a good thing for the racing.
Pete
Pete
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its racing see bk a 70 yr history take your (WhoreGay Glasses off and Clean your undies there full of ....)
its not some ps3/360 video game with a line round the track that says you must follow this
Great scrap those last 2 laps. Best scrap of the season. All those whiners should shutupp and go watch some classic Motogp races. Or better yet, watch last weeks Supersport race like Lorenzo should do, now that was an epic battle. I'd prolly put him to tears.
Ok, time to throw some thoughts in here and I can here Talpa amongst others at their keyboard already - but just wait for a second please guys (and gals)
As for the race - I kinda liked it as it is always good to watch motorcycles ridden well, be that alone or in packs, but I did enjoy that on a circuit I do not enjoy watching on so much.
Stoner surprised as Motegi is not for me anyway a 'Ducati' track as it is stop/accelerate/brake/stop etc etc, something the Ducati is not really that great at but Stoner got it to work and hopefully it is a show of new found confidence for the seasons end as he chases second in the title.
Dovisioso did not surprise me, or moreso Honda did not as this is a Honda circuit and should suit the bike, but it is good to see Dovi showing his potential and I do hope he ends up competitive next year wherever he may be (so much of me wants him in HRC as I think he belongs there away from Pedrosa)
Now to the bone of contention and/or controversy, and it is hear I can hear the keyboards a clacking in reply.
For me, the battle, albeit entertaining in the closing stages was totally unnecessary and should (could) have been avoided by both riders. In one corner we had a rider with a lot to lose up against a rider with nothing to lose and a lot to be gained (mentally speaking). Both riders were silly to engage in the battle but both had huge reasons to do so.
In the end, for mine Rossi rode on the edge of reasonable but never crossed (reasonable being in control, never crossing the line of legal vs illegal, but always hard racing). In short, old school mid to late 80's fairing bashing show and ask no quarter racing.
Lorenzo rode the same.
But for me both were silly (not stupid) as Rossi could easily have taken his team-mate out and affected the individual and possibly team championship standings but seemed to want instead to a FU to Lorenzo and Yamaha, not sure which was the bigger of the two receiving tho as for mine, Rossi's ego is hurt.
But Lorenzo is not innocent as it is his championship to lose and discretion would (should) have had him drop back and settle for points, but his ego was battered from recent results and being beaten by the person whom he has usurped at Yamaha.
It was a battle of two very large, self indulgent and self important egos each with their own agendas and it made good viewing, long may it continue.
Gaz
As for the race - I kinda liked it as it is always good to watch motorcycles ridden well, be that alone or in packs, but I did enjoy that on a circuit I do not enjoy watching on so much.
Stoner surprised as Motegi is not for me anyway a 'Ducati' track as it is stop/accelerate/brake/stop etc etc, something the Ducati is not really that great at but Stoner got it to work and hopefully it is a show of new found confidence for the seasons end as he chases second in the title.
Dovisioso did not surprise me, or moreso Honda did not as this is a Honda circuit and should suit the bike, but it is good to see Dovi showing his potential and I do hope he ends up competitive next year wherever he may be (so much of me wants him in HRC as I think he belongs there away from Pedrosa)
Now to the bone of contention and/or controversy, and it is hear I can hear the keyboards a clacking in reply.
For me, the battle, albeit entertaining in the closing stages was totally unnecessary and should (could) have been avoided by both riders. In one corner we had a rider with a lot to lose up against a rider with nothing to lose and a lot to be gained (mentally speaking). Both riders were silly to engage in the battle but both had huge reasons to do so.
In the end, for mine Rossi rode on the edge of reasonable but never crossed (reasonable being in control, never crossing the line of legal vs illegal, but always hard racing). In short, old school mid to late 80's fairing bashing show and ask no quarter racing.
Lorenzo rode the same.
But for me both were silly (not stupid) as Rossi could easily have taken his team-mate out and affected the individual and possibly team championship standings but seemed to want instead to a FU to Lorenzo and Yamaha, not sure which was the bigger of the two receiving tho as for mine, Rossi's ego is hurt.
But Lorenzo is not innocent as it is his championship to lose and discretion would (should) have had him drop back and settle for points, but his ego was battered from recent results and being beaten by the person whom he has usurped at Yamaha.
It was a battle of two very large, self indulgent and self important egos each with their own agendas and it made good viewing, long may it continue.
Gaz
Wow!
Great race!
(I realise i'm a bit late here)
In the beginning i thought Stoner pushed way too much and thought he would crash.
But actually that pace was needed to hold off by the end of the race.That's racecraft with the 800's i guess.
Dovi and some other Honda riders seemed to have some extra speed this weekend at Honda's home track.Hmm..
Rossi-Lorenzo battle was entertaining but as Rossi clearly was pushing Lorenzo out,comming from behind him,was a bit too much.
I'm just saying,what if Lorenzo would have been pushed 1 inch further,out on the grass/gravel under the bridge and crashed,
wouldn't that be just a little foolish?(Safety?).
I mean,some thought Stoner's lastlap pass of Rossi in Germany was unfair.That wasn't even close compared to this.
In the end no one crashed,but it wasn't far away.
Great race!
(I realise i'm a bit late here)
In the beginning i thought Stoner pushed way too much and thought he would crash.
But actually that pace was needed to hold off by the end of the race.That's racecraft with the 800's i guess.
Dovi and some other Honda riders seemed to have some extra speed this weekend at Honda's home track.Hmm..
Rossi-Lorenzo battle was entertaining but as Rossi clearly was pushing Lorenzo out,comming from behind him,was a bit too much.
I'm just saying,what if Lorenzo would have been pushed 1 inch further,out on the grass/gravel under the bridge and crashed,
wouldn't that be just a little foolish?(Safety?).
I mean,some thought Stoner's lastlap pass of Rossi in Germany was unfair.That wasn't even close compared to this.
In the end no one crashed,but it wasn't far away.
Sad that Furusawa himself played along. What a bad image for Yamaha! MotoGP is already boring, we only need the manufacturers to issue team orders to prevent battles and keep the proceedings orderly according to their wishes...
I think its sad that Rossi fans turn so quickly on the people and organizations that do some much for Rossi as soon as Rossi's ego gets too big for his current garage. In 2004 Rossi was raving that Yamaha had a family atmosphere and everything was lovely, Rossi and Yamaha together had saved motogp (apparently). Now Rossi's decided that he wants to leave because its not all about him anymore and suddenly Yamaha have a bad image for motogp. Rubbish. Yamaha's complaint is totally justified, their riders are employess, they work for Yamamaha and they would expect a rider of Rossi's experience to be more responsible about taking such risks in a situation like this. If a team mate had done that to Rossi when he had something to lose, i'm sure we all know what would have happened, hell Rossi can bareley cope with a rider being equal in status to him in a team, there is no way he'd cope if someone gave as good as they got on track (think Elias in Turkey).
And i would like to add, i think a lot of the public complaints here are about ego's and status. Lorenzo obviously thought Rossi would act true to his words and show some respect, but found that in fact Rossi was going to ride Lorenzo rougher than ever (for Rossi it was a perfect opportunity to have a dig at Lorenzo because he had the old engine and so much to lose, you can see where he is coming from (its called ego). With Rossi leaving and doing his best to cause a stir before he does, Yamaha have to publically come out on Lorenzo's side and reiterate his status as the team leader, basically put Rossi back in his place (which he will hate). But i'd be surprised if they haven't had a quiet word with Lorenzo too because like we've all said, he could have just left it. Yamaha have had a difficult year managing these too egos.
As far as i am concerned, they only move in their battle that could really be questioned in terms of 'unfair' riding or unacceptable dangerous was on the penultimate lap when Rossi tried to cut Jorge back under the first underpass and did literally charge into Jorge's bike. We've seen this kind of thing before, usually in the lower classes, and it is a bit borderline. Rossi knew jorge was there and there wasn't really any need for it. No harm came of it so its fine in the end, but like has been mentioned before the younger riders aspire to this kind of thing and will now feel this is the way to go about racing, i'm not sure thats such a good thing. Besides that, i don't think any of the riding can be considered unfair or unlawful in the slightest.
This can just be smoke. Anyway, if that was the case it means it did not make a difference at Motegi... Official data say there was a gap of about 4 kmh between the two bikes. Such small differences don't mean anything. For instance, Stoner's Ducati was also clocked 4-5 kmh faster than Nicky's. Or,just guess, the fastest Honda was... Melandri's, 4 kmh faster than Dovi's.
What a load of rubbish. Lorenzo takes the inferior engine and can race as fast as Rossi, it stands to reason that if Lorenzo had taken the new engine he'd have been quicker and none of this batlte would have happened, lets all just be thankful he didn't
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I think its excellent that Lorenzo has joined the Gibernau and Stoner club of rivals who have driven Rossi to desperation, and seen what he's really like. Like them Lorenzo came off second in the game of who is prepared to take the biggest risk, but i think this one is different for a few reasons. Firstly this time Rossi felt the need to turn it on like this for just a 3rd place, that says a lot about how Rossi feels about Lorenzo as a competitor. Secondly, in the previous two instances Rossi's moves were a major part of him defeating the other rider to win the world title, but this time the title is already lost and its gone in Lorenzo's favour. Thirdly, Lorenzo didn't lose his cool, he played the game as far as he was prepared to play it, held his own and then said enough is enough i'd rather finish the race.
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I don't go for this line of argument either in general (there were once wide bodies of opinion the earth was flat and the sun moved around the sun), or specifically concerning rossi and motogp; apart from anything else it is unlikely to be fruitful if you are a fan of a rider other than rossi since a large majority of motogp fans are rossi fans
Rossi can be fairly ruthless on track, probably an essential requirement to win so many world championships, but I don't think he is any harder than mick doohan for instance who was widely acclaimed for such hardness, including by me and very likely you. I think rossi's only unequivocally murky move was the gibernau last corner pass.
I do see some hypocrisy in him calling this duel fun ( it certainly loooked that way to me) but elias dangerous after a previous similar duel.
I think lorenzo has handed rossi a psychological advantage particularly by involving jarvis/yamaha, and his reaction has been everything rossi might have hoped for and more. Of course this may not avail rossi much, since as you and I know stoner is going to be his problem next year
I don't go for this line of argument either in general (there were once wide bodies of opinion the earth was flat and the sun moved around the sun), or specifically concerning rossi and motogp; apart from anything else it is unlikely to be fruitful if you are a fan of a rider other than rossi since a large majority of motogp fans are rossi fans.
Rossi can be fairly ruthless on track, probably an essential requirement to win so many world championships, but I don't think he is any harder than mick doohan for instance who was widely acclaimed for such hardness, including by me and very likely you. I think rossi's only unequivocally murky move was the gibernau last corner pass.
I do see some hypocrisy in him calling this duel fun ( it certainly loooked that way to me) but elias dangerous after a previous similar duel.
Agree, To be a champion that many times a rider must push every single limit he can. That means the limit of his bike, tyres, what his team and engineers can offer him and even sporting conduct. Rossi has been ruthless, and that is to his credit because more often than not he makes it stick and has very rarely taken riders out or caused accidents. I think the Gibernau move was dodgy, but the others even if questionable haven't gone too far over the line. I also agree with you about the hypocrisy but like i said at the time, all the riders do it and you have to take those comments with a pinch of salt.
